Pistol light setup - yay or nay?
- Thread starter Cowboybebop
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Coal Dragger
member
I'm sure it will work, but there are much less cumbersome solutions to be had.
Zaydok Allen
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serviceable but cumbersome,
There's better options.
There's better options.
Panzerschwein
member
Just because you have a WML (weapon mounted light) on your platform doesn't mean you have to use it for target identification by pointing it directly at them. From the high ready position, operators are trained to "bounce" the light off the floor/walls etc. to light up room without everything crossing a friendly with their muzzle.I'm certainly the wrong person to ask because I firmly believe the light belongs in your hand not everywhere your muzzle is pointing.I guess I'm not quite "tacitcool" for most people.
The myth that you have to aim the pistol directly at someone to get a friend/foe ID needs to die.
Coal Dragger
member
You could also just carry an additional handheld light.
With weapon mounted lights now so compact like the Surefire XC1, I'm not sure why you wouldn't use one. Even on a carry sized gun like a Glock 19, Walther PPQ etc.
Mounting the light on the gun let's you keep both hands on the gun, which is an advantage in controlling the gun. Once you identify the threat with your hand held light should you need to, just use the light on the gun and get to work.
With weapon mounted lights now so compact like the Surefire XC1, I'm not sure why you wouldn't use one. Even on a carry sized gun like a Glock 19, Walther PPQ etc.
Mounting the light on the gun let's you keep both hands on the gun, which is an advantage in controlling the gun. Once you identify the threat with your hand held light should you need to, just use the light on the gun and get to work.
bannockburn
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owboybebop
Looks a little cumbersome but it should work alright. I went with a SIG STL900L on my home defense gun as I wanted something that was compact and easy to use.
Looks a little cumbersome but it should work alright. I went with a SIG STL900L on my home defense gun as I wanted something that was compact and easy to use.
springer99
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hahahahahahaha
MIL-DOT
member
As already stated, it's cumbersome, and there are certainly better options, but if it's simply used (as I would assume) as a bedside, bump-in-the-night rig, then I don't see a problem. As a midnight grab-and-go set-up, I'd prefer to have the Surefire attached to the pistol like this, then have it seperate from the pistol and have to hunt it down in a hurry.
JohnnyFlake
Member
I am in that same category. A light belongs in the weak hand, stretched out away from the body. A light of any kind, is a Target, for the bad guys! On the mussel are of a gun, it puts you right behind it!I'm certainly the wrong person to ask because I firmly believe the light belongs in your hand not everywhere your muzzle is pointing.
stchman
Member
I don't even own a rail light at all, I guess I am not an "operator".
MICHAEL T
Member
Rails are what trains run on. I have my light in weak hand to old to change .
I have my light in weak hand to old to change .
Chuck R.
Member
Everything I keep for HD wears a WML.
I've taken multiple low-light classes and shot a chit load of low-light stages in matches:
1. A WML makes it much, much, easier to hit what you're aiming at.....quickly.
2. No chance of leaving the light behind
3. The majority of modern HH flashlight techniques: Harries, Roger's Surefire, Graham, Ayob etc. basically put the light parallel to the bore/slide mimicking a WML (might as well mount it). Another 2 put the light next to your head (neck and cheek index) and then there's finally the old FBI technique, support hand held away from body.
4. TAC light has enough lumens to ID at low ready (honestly muzzle sweeping some one in my house after dark is the least of my worries)
5. Much easier opening doors, carrying a child etc. with a mounted light.
6. Just because it's there, you don't have to turn it on. You don't leave it on, it's not used to navigate, it's the for positive ID of a potential threat before engaging. Illuminate -- move, illuminate---shoot-----move etc.
7. It's not mutually exclusive to a HH light, you can use both.
My suggestion to anybody (everybody) interested in this is to take a training course/class. Low light techniques both HH and WML are an eye opener. Since the majority of bad chit seems to happen after dark, it just makes sense to get some training.
Chuck
I've taken multiple low-light classes and shot a chit load of low-light stages in matches:
1. A WML makes it much, much, easier to hit what you're aiming at.....quickly.
2. No chance of leaving the light behind
3. The majority of modern HH flashlight techniques: Harries, Roger's Surefire, Graham, Ayob etc. basically put the light parallel to the bore/slide mimicking a WML (might as well mount it). Another 2 put the light next to your head (neck and cheek index) and then there's finally the old FBI technique, support hand held away from body.
4. TAC light has enough lumens to ID at low ready (honestly muzzle sweeping some one in my house after dark is the least of my worries)
5. Much easier opening doors, carrying a child etc. with a mounted light.
6. Just because it's there, you don't have to turn it on. You don't leave it on, it's not used to navigate, it's the for positive ID of a potential threat before engaging. Illuminate -- move, illuminate---shoot-----move etc.
7. It's not mutually exclusive to a HH light, you can use both.
My suggestion to anybody (everybody) interested in this is to take a training course/class. Low light techniques both HH and WML are an eye opener. Since the majority of bad chit seems to happen after dark, it just makes sense to get some training.
Chuck
JohnnyFlake
Member
Odd, but it seems that no one wants to address the fact, that I pointed out in post #13, which is that, a light, is also a target for the bad guy!
If you watch all the action TV Shows, now days, like I often do, doesn't it seem odd that most of the good guys all have lights hanging from their guns, but the bad guys don't. That's not fair it is?
If you watch all the action TV Shows, now days, like I often do, doesn't it seem odd that most of the good guys all have lights hanging from their guns, but the bad guys don't. That's not fair it is?
JohnnyFlake
Member
That still doesn't answer the thought of a light being a target. I guess from what your saying a class will cover that aspect. I am too old to take a class. I am 74 and of the old school way of using the weak hand to control the light.
Not making fun of you, I'd never do that. But the vast majority of gun owners don't have barns and outbuildings to patrol.
Both points of view are valid.
- Control the gun with both hands, or keep one hand available to open doors. Very valid point.
- Never point a loaded gun at anything you don't want to destroy, but how do you accomplish that when your flashlight is attached to the muzzle. Very valid point.
Like everything else in life (even the decision to own a gun or not) it is a personal decision and I honor everyone else's personal decisions. None of us need to disparage the other.
You just be careful when you want to light up my face. I shoot back.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
Pistol light setup - yay or nay?
Strictly a matter of personal taste or need. I don't have a flashlight hanging off any of my guns including my home defense gun. However, if it works for you then by all means put a flashlight on the gun.
Ron
Strictly a matter of personal taste or need. I don't have a flashlight hanging off any of my guns including my home defense gun. However, if it works for you then by all means put a flashlight on the gun.
Ron
Just my opinion only but the main problem with this goofy concept of pointing the light at the floor is if it really is a bad guy you sure as hell don't want the light pointed at the floor, you want it pointed directly in their eyes so they can't see for several minutes.
I don't care if I temporarily blind one of my kids sneaking into the house after hours. Pointing a gun at the head of an unverified thread is just plain stupid. We don't have to agree either that's for sure but the only real safety rule that matters is to know where your muzzle is pointed at all times.
Absolutely...but thanks to the 'Net, it never will...
Gimme time...
I remember hearing Ken Hackathorn discussing the "light away from the body" technique - it was abandoned a number of years ago as not being practical.
Just for fun, go thru your house with the light held as far away from your body as possible (don't want the bad buy shooting at the light!) and try to ID points in your house as if someone was there (not to mention the difficulty of trying to go thru your house with an outstretched arm that's not bumping into everything in sight).
I think you'll find it's damn tough / near impossible to do.
Not only will you probably miss the target, but you will still have given away your position with the added disadvantage of not having temporarily blinded the BG by it being darn near impossible to hit him directly with the light in an outstretched arm.
Another goodie I once heard - toss the light in the room and let it roll around on the floor so you won't be a target.
Yeahhhhhhh...when your light stops rolling around, don't be surprised if (Murphy's law in effect) the light comes to rest pointing at you.
As an added bonus, you're probably now given the BG a nice light to use (and he may actually know how to employ it)!
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Chuck R.
Member
I'll address...
#1 Surprise!! They do it wrong on TV!!!!!!
#2 Again we're talking about the final check before pulling a trigger, the TAC light isn't left on, it's not used for navigation, it's to illuminate a target to confirm it's an actual threat, it has a momentary switch. IF you can do that with what ambient light you have present, then your potential threat can just as easily ID you. Use the darkness as a multiplier because you know the terrain, but before you pull a trigger, know as best you can what/who you're engaging.
IMHO it is the best option to either:
1. Taking the literal "shot in the dark" at someone or something without a positive ID
2. Or going with the lights on, or ambient light, so you and your possible threat are on even ground. Is there even enough ambient light to ID a target as an actual threat????
The way I've trained:
1. I'm oriented on a possible threat
2. Weapon at either low ready, or at the ready (as I've said earlier, I have no issue with muzzle sweeping folks in my house uninvited or sneaking back in (Rule 3 applies)) I muzzle swept folks while working for a PD, it's common for a felony stop, no one was accidentally shot.
3. Strobe light-- ID TGT -- shoot or don't
It actually took longer to type than do it. It takes a second or two with some training.
Yes they may take a shot at the light, that's always a chance. That's why we all have to do our own personal risk assessment. But a decent TAC light actually has a physical impact on a person who's eyes are adjusted to the darkness.
Are the odds greater that:
1. You'll encounter a threat that can snap shoot at a light faster than you can ID and pull a trigger??
Or
2. You'll misidentify someone as a potential threat?
Based on the news articles I've read concerning "accidental" shootings with homeowners popping a non-threat, I'd say #2 is more likely. But as myself and others have pointed out it's also a training issue, or lack thereof.
I've trained and used the old FBI technique, it works. It does however take more skill/training to use and get good FAST hits on a target.
BTW, you're never too old to take a class!!!
Chuck
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