Pistol suggestions

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Steve Milbocker

Steve Milbocker

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I retired and moved to Beaver Island. A small island in the middle of northern Lake Michigan. We have one deputy here that was stretched a bit thin and he asked me to become a reserve deputy so I did. Our issue side arm is the M&P 2.0. I did fine during our qualification but would like to stay tuned up. The department is pretty stingy with practice ammo, can’t really blame them these days. Is there a decently accurate pistol out there that would be similar to our issue side arm? Thanks in advance.
 
Sounds silly but my favorite since it came out is the Daisy powerline 415. They are very innexpensive (around $40) but good power (500+fps) for plinking and ergo wise are similar to something like an M&P. Smith and Wesson always gets the ergos right. Might be worth a shot for for the cost and availability. The trigger is more like a true DAO (which I like) but it is very smooth. Great for practicing trigger control to the point where I have zero problems with true DAO pistols or striker fired glock types.

Thats for actual shooting practice though. If you are going to be working on tactical whatever you should probably go the lookalike route with features that completely mimic the M&P.

In any event... Airgunning with pistols is a great way to go for cheap shooting. I am always amazed more people dont do it. I would guess maybe 75% of my shooting skills come from shooting air pistols at an early age.around 7 years old. This was back in the early 80s when we did not have so many options but it didnt matter. Fundamentals dont change. Even with the nice firearms I own now as an adult I still enjoy shooting airpistols as much as anything else.
 
Steve Milbocker said:
Starling, how accurate would you say that pistol is at say 7 yards?
Click to expand...

That would depend on the shooter but I dont have a problem hitting cans at longer distance than seven yards. They are BB not pellet. Dont be shooting steel targets if you go the BB route! The trigger will be longer than your M&P of course but for shooting fundamentals its the same. Most of the lookalikes will run around 400 FPS where these are right at 500FPS. Lots of reviews out there and I see these sell for as little as $35.

Been airgun shooting for a loooong time. These 415s are my go to for plinking. I dont even shoot my Crosman 600s much anymore and those are somewhat the Gold Standard in Airguns. Typically on an Air pistol I will smooth out the trigger but my 415s didnt need it. They load from the top so no fragile plastic magazines to mess with but its a fixed magazine so it may be slow for some. Front sight is a fiberoptic type. No silly blowback to use up all your CO2 which I prefer. The rail seems kind of silly but I have found it usefull for getting the feel for shooting with a laser or light. Wish these would have been around back in the 80s for Frog hunting (froglegs). The CO2 lasts very well compared to most others out there. At least 3 full mags depending on how fast you are shooting or the outside Temp. Not sure how well versed you are in airguns but CO2 in extreme cold weather can lessen performance.

for $35-$40 I dont think you can go wrong with these. If nothing else you will have a lot of fun. Trigger is very much a light and smooth double action. The pistols themselves are more like a duty size handgun and very light overall. Barrel length is very important in Airguns.

Umarex makes an M&P 2.0 lookalike. It may be better for you in terms of tactical or Job training. Not sure If I am allowed to post it here but here goes...

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08SJ53PRQ/ref=emc_b_5_t

they are a little weak in terms of power (375fps) and run 3 times more ($100 range) but will be more similar in weight and feel to your duty gun. They also have a magazine more like what you will use in terms of reloading practices. I would check them out if you are just shooting paper in the 7-10 ard range.

Pretty confident in saying the 415 will be more fun though for the money. Best thing to do would be get both. Same ammo...same CO2. Umarex lookalikes are not bad. They are basically all the same with different asthetics and make good trainers. I just like to shoot cans with the kids and 375 FPS is pretty weak (often wont penetrate an empty soda can). Most of the cheaper crosman and daisy lookalikes will match or outperform them in terms of power and accuracy in my experience.

WARNING... Airgunning can get pretty addicting. Try not to drop big money if you get into it. The hard core airgunners will drop incredible amounts of money on Airguns. There comes a point where you have to say to yourself.... I can buy a real firearm for that! Best to keep it inexpensive and fun as to not lose your head. I get it though... I like a lot of the older vintage stuff. I still look at them as fantastic for firearms training and practice as well as introducing firearms fundamentals for new younger shooters. They have come a long ways.

If you are not fmiliar with Airgun History (most are not) this is a fun read...

https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/article/lewis-and-clarks-girandoni-air-rifle/
 
Can't you shoot ammo you buy yourself in your issue weapon? That seems a little sideways if you can't, we have no issue in doing that. One guy took a deer with his issue side arm years ago.

When he told me that story this scene popped into my head.

 
That said, an air gun will be much cheaper.....at least I thought so.

Story time:

Years ago I was playing a PPC type game with a 1911 in 45acp, yea I know crazy but it is what I wanted to do. The ammo was eating me alive even with reloading. So I figured in getting a "BB gun" and use that to train with. Got a very nice one, took the "Real" 1911 parts, safety, could put my sights on it, everything. And it was great......but......it ate CO2 like a fat girl eats M&M's I would get one magazine per cartridge....and this is shooting fairly slow, working on draw, off safe, bang bang, on safe back in holster, look at timer.

The CO2 also made the slide go back, it was very realistic, but it ate CO2. In the end I went with a GSG 1911 and did not look back. That ended up being cheaper in the long run.

If you go with a BB gun do a little research and see just how long that cartridge will last. I am "into" air rifles and that thought never crossed my mind.
 
Smith used to make an M&P in 22lr. Not sure if they still do or if they went to the 2.0 or even if the manual of arms are the same. But ergonomically even the 1.0 should feel similar. YMMV. Personaly I would find a 22lr with the same setup (manual of arms MOA) as the duty gun and go that route. That way muscle memory will be there and a 22 pistol is way more usefull than air handgun.
 
MtnHiker said:
Smith used to make an M&P in 22lr. Not sure if they still do or if they went to the 2.0 or even if the manual of arms are the same. But ergonomically even the 1.0 should feel similar. YMMV. Personaly I would find a 22lr with the same setup (manual of arms MOA) as the duty gun and go that route. That way muscle memory will be there and a 22 pistol is way more usefull than air handgun.
Click to expand...

I will debate the "way more useful" part.

Both have their uses, however in the I want to practice cheap the 22 is likely going to be more inexpensive if he has easy access to a range. If not he can do the air gun in his living room in the middle of winter when it is -30F outside while Watching TV.
 
Steve Milbocker said:
We can but cost is prohibitive as well as finding a place to shoot here on the island. It’s not finding a safe place it’s more about the noise.
Click to expand...

I pictured a small picture postcard island in your first post.

I think the air gun will be perfect for you. But if you do have a choice get one where the slide does not move, that just takes up CO2 and it is really not something that you need.
 
The reason I asked about accuracy was because I want to take the gun out of the equation. We had an informal accuracy comp where we shot spots from 2-10 yards. My boss is a former LAPD head of SIS with a lot of trigger time. He is a fine shot and beat me by 5 points and currently leads the department going into the final day. My goal is to beat him next year
 
Steve Milbocker said:
We can but cost is prohibitive as well as finding a place to shoot here on the island. It’s not finding a safe place it’s more about the noise.
Click to expand...

Another thing to cosider Steve is if you are doing close ranges like seven yards would be to get yourself (or make) a BB/Pellet trap. Then you could even pratice indoors in the colder months that Michigan has. I am from Michigan originally and had a setup when I was a Kid in the basement with a BB trap. Have to be a little careful with BBs of course because they can ricochet. I just used a large box with filler and a wood backing and it was never a problem.
The possiblilities are pretty endless right now with all the airpistols out there. Cowboy action shooting trainers and even full auto BB guns are easy and affordable. I still carry a Makarov PM a lot in 9x18mm so I have a lot of time on the Baikal (airpistol built from real makarovs) as well as the Umarex version.

And yet another thing to consider is the Laserlyte target traing systems out there such as this....

https://laserlyte.com/laser-training

In that case you could use your actual sidearm for cheap practice. Pretty neat system when I tried it. I liked a lot on pistols that had a second strike ability (true DAO types) but didnt with something like a 1911 or Glock/Sigma style design due to the fact you had to constantly reset the striker or cock the hammer. Its another way to practice indoors though. I just never went that route because I am stuck in the past from all the time shooting cans and targets as a kid.

If nothing else get a few of these..

https://www.lymanproducts.com/brands/a-zoom/a-zoom-strikercaps

You can practice a lot of technique with simple snap caps.....Trigger control, presentation, handling etc. etc. Its all good stuff in the end. Time spent with the pistol to become comfortable and natural in whatever role it is being used to serve is always good. My kids are still pretty young (10 and 12) and whenever they try a new pistol I start them out with snap caps or dummy rounds just so they are familiar and comfortable for loading and shooting before heading off to the range.

Please dont take this as condescending in any way. I just like to share experiences and throw ideas around with enthusiests. Im guessing you have a history of experience with firearms. I still practice with snap caps a lot for trigger control. Even when going to the range I throw one in for a few practice pulls before shooting. Kind of a warm up before actual shooting.
 
Steve Milbocker said:
The reason I asked about accuracy was because I want to take the gun out of the equation. We had an informal accuracy comp where we shot spots from 2-10 yards. My boss is a former LAPD head of SIS with a lot of trigger time. He is a fine shot and beat me by 5 points and currently leads the department going into the final day. My goal is to beat him next year
Click to expand...

If you are looking at extreme accuracy you really need to go with an air pistol with a rifled barrel and shoot pellets. There are very good ones out there but I dont think Umarex makes them for the M&P 2.0. My Walther P99 Umarex is extremely accurate but its basically a revolver in terms of loading.

The poster above is correct BTW. The Blowbacks are neat but for shooters they really bleed of the gas quickly. Great for training kids or new shooters early on but not so much for experienced shooters that are familiar with semi auto pistols.

Most air pistols are going to have triggers that are longer in pull than something like an actual M&P. If you are practicing true bullseye shooting with a specific design you may be best of going with the 22LR version (as someone mentioned above). If noise is a factor use CCI quiets but they most likely wont have enough energy to cycle the action.
 
Steve Milbocker said:
The reason I asked about accuracy was because I want to take the gun out of the equation. We had an informal accuracy comp where we shot spots from 2-10 yards. My boss is a former LAPD head of SIS with a lot of trigger time. He is a fine shot and beat me by 5 points and currently leads the department going into the final day. My goal is to beat him next year
Click to expand...

Like @starling said, you need an air pistol that is setup for target, this will likely be pellet. IMHO you don't need to spend a bucket of money to get something that will be good at garage or basement distances. And those will help you in the same skills of shooting powder hand guns better. The replica will help you with the handling of your duty weapon.
 
Steve, Also the Daisy Powerline 415 does have a suppressor you can pick up at Buck-Rail (a veteran owned company) that I have seen on YouTube that takes out the loudness equation.
I have the suppressor but waiting for my birthday to order the pistol. As probably mentioned the FPS on this piece is higher than many CO2 pistols.
 
I have a M&P replica made by Umarex I believe. It mimics the feel of the real thing exactly except it isn't as heavy in weight and the trigger pull is very heavy. It sips CO2 and my trigger finger get tired before I empty a cylinder. It will get around 100 full power shots. It's velocity is fairly low. It's accuracy isn't great with run of the mill BBs but Black Diamond BBs are much better although more expensive.

I have had this one for years and I believe there are better models available now.
 
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Remington1911 said:
Like @starling said, you need an air pistol that is setup for target, this will likely be pellet. IMHO you don't need to spend a bucket of money to get something that will be good at garage or basement distances. And those will help you in the same skills of shooting powder hand guns better. The replica will help you with the handling of your duty weapon.
Click to expand...
Pellet rules for accuracy, but there are not nearly as many replica guns that shoot pellets. The OP was talking about decent accuracy at 7 yards. A CO2 BB gun will accomplish this just fine, and when the BBs stay out in the field, they'll just biodegrade. (rust away) So BBs might be preferable, in this case!

doubleh said:
I have a M&P replica made by Umarex I believe. It mimics the feel of the real thing exactly except it isn't as heavy in weight and the trigger pull is very heavy. It sips CO2 and my trigger finger get tired before I empty a cylinder. It will get around 100 full power shots. It's velocity is fairly low. It's accuracy isn't great with run of the mill BBs but Black Diamond BBs are much better although more expensive.

I have had this one for years and I believe there are better models available now.
Click to expand...
Yes, a BB-shooting replica of the M&P would be my choice. You won't have the weight, noise and recoil to make it representative, but you'll have the FEEL of it. I bet if you get one of these, your entire department will soon have one for your impromptu target shoots.

https://www.pyramydair.com/product/smith-wesson-m-p-pistol-kit-black?m=3780

PY-3780_Smith-Wesson-MP_1591896364.jpg ​
 
Depending on who he is, my point is that letting your boss win, whether it's while playing chess or when punching holes in a target, might be a "winning" strategy for you in the long run. o_O
 
If I,m getting this right you are wanting a air pistol to practice with instead of firearm than may I suggest an old style webley air pistol these are great as trainers and if you can shoot accurately with one of these (slow barrel time, low fps velocity) then a firearm is going to be a piece of cake, just a thought.
 
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