Pistolgrip shotgun laws?

[wlemay]

So I recently got a Mossberg 590 from a local gunshop & really like it.

Before I decided to buy the 590 I was looking around and picked up a "tactical" mossberg 500 with only a pistol grip (no stock). I asked the shop owner about it & he said there was a 72hr waiting period to buy it (I live in IL so there is a 24hr waiting period for long guns & 72hr period for handguns).

So, I am wondering why there was a 72hr waiting period on this shotgun instead of 24hrs... It had an 18.5in barrel & was nothing really special. As far as I know short barrel shotguns & rifles are illegal under IL law (this was not a SBS).

Was this shotgun considered a AOW by the ATF? If so would it be illegal for me to put a similar pistol grip on my 590 without paying a tax? (not that I want to do this... I like the rifle stock).

I just want to know the laws regarding mods like pistol grips on shotguns... Do they change the gun's "legal" status?

 

[drsfmd]

That's a state issue, not federal.

 

[tyeo098]

PGO Shotguns are "other firearms" not pistols, not long guns.

 

[wlemay]

That's a state issue, not federal.

I understand that may be the case with this. But my question is whether or not a pistol grip will change the legal status of a firearm under FEDERAL and/or STATE law.

Is a pistol grip shotgun an AOW?

 

[wlemay]

PGO Shotguns are "other firearms" not pistols, not long guns.

So do you have to pay a tax to the ATF to put a Pistol grip on a shotgun that previously had a full length stock?

 

[tyeo098]

"Other firearm" Is different than "Any other weapon"

On the 4473 there are 3 boxes:
Handgun (shoots with one hand)
Longgun (has a stock, shoulder fired)
Other (???? Other!)

A PGO shotgun is not fired with one hand, not is it shoulder fired. Its 'other'.

AOW's are things like cane-guns or things that dont look like weapons, but are.

 

[wlemay]

A PGO shotgun is not fired with one hand, not is it shoulder fired. Its 'other'.

I now understand it is not an AOW but it is in a fuzzy class called "other"; I just want to know what the rules are for this class.

So let me say this one more time: "do you have to pay a tax (or fill out paperwork) to the ATF (or other federal/state gov. entity) to put a Pistol grip on a shotgun that previously had a full length stock?"

 

[guyfromohio]

ATF is federal. It doesn't care about pistol grips. No tax to the feds. The People's Republic of Illinois may require something different.

 

[tyeo098]

ATF is federal. It doesn't care about pistol grips. No tax to the feds. The People's Republic of Illinois may require something different.

How the weapon is classified (longgun/handgun) determines the wait-period per IL law.

 

[guyfromohio]

Understood. I was answering post 7. No, the ATF doesn't care. Illinois might.

 

[tyeo098]

So let me say this one more time: "do you have to pay a tax (or fill out paperwork) to the ATF (or other federal/state gov. entity) to put a Pistol grip on a shotgun that previously had a full length stock?"

Not unless you turn it into an AOW/SBS.
You DO have to be over 21 to purchase it though. (-drools-, I'm only 20!)

 

[wlemay]

Quote:
Originally Posted by guyfromohio View Post
ATF is federal. It doesn't care about pistol grips. No tax to the feds. The People's Republic of Illinois may require something different.
How the weapon is classified (longgun/handgun) determines the wait-period per IL law.

Thanks... that is all I really needed to know. Now it would be nice if any of you know how IL deals with this type of situation... From what I understand about IL laws is that a pistol grip shotgun is not illegal:

However I do not know if putting such a grip on my "long-gun" would "turn" it into a handgun from the state's perspective. Further more I don't know what kind of legal issues the state would have with this (if any)...

RANT: These classifications are some of the stupidest things I have ever seen; they make little sense why "need to" we have them & they make this crap to complicated from a "average citizen who want's to follow the laws" perspective...

 

[tyeo098]

Read the IL statutes.
Contact a firearms attorney.
???
PGO Shotgun!

 

[Bovice]

You DO have to be over 21 to purchase it though. (-drools-, I'm only 20!)

Hahaha. Just buy the version with a shoulder stock, and order your pistol grip later. That's like the "can't buy a handgun until you're 21" deal. That's just from a dealer. You can legally possess it. But it would have to be a gift from somebody or a private sale.

 

[wlemay]

Read the IL statutes.

Already have done that... Nothing specific about "PGO" that I have seen... Idk if they might have some BS about it buried in there somewhere or in some other obscure criminal law. I might just talk to the dealer I got the 590 from b/c he is the biggest dealer in the area & would know if there is a law.

 

[Midwest]

I did a search on this, it is called a Mossberg 500 "Road Blocker" . Nowhere does it say it is a NFA item (though it seems like it would be). Yes I guess it is a Illinois thing.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/61874-55.html

Mossberg 500 Road Blocker, 18.5" Cylinder Bore Barrel with Muzzle Brake, 6 Rounds, Black Synthetic Pistol Grip Stock, Matte Finish.
High security is fine; high maintenance isn't. Enter the Mossberg® 500® and 590® Persuader® shotguns, the pump action shotguns you can count on for your security needs. They have the credentials and track record to prove it. In their commercial form, the Persuaders are virtual duplicates of the proven Mossberg® military 500® and 590® models, the only pump action shotguns ever to pass all stringent U. S. Military Mil-Spec 3443 standards. Use the 500® Persuader® at home and the Mariner® on the water, these guns are dependable and economical.

Specifications and features:
Mossberg Model 500 Special Purpose Road Blocker pump action shotgun
12 gauge
18.5" barrel
3" chamber
6 round capacity
Ambidextrous thumb safety
Muzzle brake
Heat shield
Black synthetic pistol grip stock
Matte finish
Twin action bars
Bead sight
Made in the USA

 

[brickeyee]

How does the state law define long gun vs. a handgun?

A PG makes the item NOT a shotgun under federal law since it is not designed to be shouldered and fired (no butt stock) thus it dos not meet the federal long gun exception for under 21 purchase.

Federal law restricts ALL sales to 21, but than makes a specific exception for a shotgun or rifle, and both are designed to be fired from the shoulder under federal law.

The law is not going to address every possible configuration of weapon, so if the PG moves it out of the long gun definition it is no longer a long gun.

Again, look up how IL defines long gun vs. handgun.

 

[tyeo098]

I did a search on this, it is called a Mossberg 500 "Road Blocker" . Nowhere does it say it is a NFA item (though it seems like it would be). Yes I guess it is a Illinois thing.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/61874-55.html

Mossberg 500 Road Blocker, 18.5" Cylinder Bore Barrel with Muzzle Brake, 6 Rounds, Black Synthetic Pistol Grip Stock, Matte Finish.
High security is fine; high maintenance isn't. Enter the Mossberg® 500® and 590® Persuader® shotguns, the pump action shotguns you can count on for your security needs. They have the credentials and track record to prove it. In their commercial form, the Persuaders are virtual duplicates of the proven Mossberg® military 500® and 590® models, the only pump action shotguns ever to pass all stringent U. S. Military Mil-Spec 3443 standards. Use the 500® Persuader® at home and the Mariner® on the water, these guns are dependable and economical.

Specifications and features:
Mossberg Model 500 Special Purpose Road Blocker pump action shotgun
12 gauge
18.5" barrel
3" chamber
6 round capacity
Ambidextrous thumb safety
Muzzle brake
Heat shield
Black synthetic pistol grip stock
Matte finish
Twin action bars
Bead sight
Made in the USA

Barrel > 18
OAL > 26
...

Why would this be an NFA item?

 

[brickeyee]

It is not an NFA item, but it is not a long gun either since a long gun is define ed by the feds as being fired from the shoulder.

 

[mortablunt]

I think that there's something in GCA 68 where if you are under 21, then you cannot buy a shotgun with a pistol grip which lacks a buttstock.

 

[CoRoMo]

...there's something in GCA 68 where if you are under 21, then you cannot buy a shotguns with a pistol grip...

No, not quite. GCA does not mention shotguns with a pistol grip.

But this is what it says:

http://trac.syr.edu/laws/18/18USC00922.html
(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or
deliver -
(1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the
licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than
eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;

So the dealer would violate that law if he sold a PGO to a 'minor'.

Also, new 4473 forms were issued a few years ago which included three categories (handgun, long gun, other). The third category was intended for stripped receivers, but the ATF also threw the PGO shotgun in there as well.

Here is their letter explaining how the PGO shotgun would now be categorized.
http://www.atf.gov/publications/newsletters/ffl/ffl-newsletter-2009-11.pdf

But the <21 year old buyer wouldn't violate this law if he were to buy the same gun in a private transaction.

 

[mortablunt]

^ Ah yes, the insane mutable ATF rules. I still find it a bit funny about how I cannot buy a handgun at a store, but if my friend gifts one to me or if I buy it directly from him, then it is legal. I wish there were some sort of loophole in the MG law.