Pizza deliverman shoots robbers
- Thread starter LaVere
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fast eddie
Member
I don't think it's 'blood lust' to be gratified when predators get shot for committing assult with a deadly weapon. Hopefully the deterrent effect will reduce the odds of other innocent folks being attacked.
Last edited:
delta53
Member
pick one
#1 shoot and get fired by Cesar’s
#2 get shot and get on Cesar’s dead delivers wall of fame
only 1 second to decide-------------------------------still waiting--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1 shoot and get fired by Cesar’s
#2 get shot and get on Cesar’s dead delivers wall of fame
only 1 second to decide-------------------------------still waiting--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
General Geoff
Member
This needs to change. Perhaps the families of wounded/dead employees should start suing the corporations for wrongful death, because the corporation's policy prohibited said employee from carrying an effective means of self defense.
glockman19
Member
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- 3,700
Way back in the late 70's and early 80's I worked a local italian Restraunt and was a delivery driver. Never had or even heard of this type of robbery/assult. Of course I was a teenager. However, when working at McDonalds I was robbed at gunpoint. Pre drive thru.
Desperate people will do stupid things 99% of the time. Glad to be here today.
+1 the driver did the right thing. Today we would not have tactical body armour if it weren't for a pizza delivery incident.
Desperate people will do stupid things 99% of the time. Glad to be here today.
+1 the driver did the right thing. Today we would not have tactical body armour if it weren't for a pizza delivery incident.
A friend of mine was killed delivery Pizzas in Detroit a couple years ago. He always carried and even had a vest, but he got caught at the end of his shift with his vest off. He wounded one of his attackers, but died at the scene himself.
R.I.P. Fred Mager
R.I.P. Fred Mager
I work for a LE agency and I'll say it:
It makes me happy as hell to see a scumbag DOA instead of in the revolving door of the judicial system.
I don't care if it was for his next meth hit (probably) or for his 5 year old daughter with cancer.... he threatened to take someone's life over something as pathetic as money.
I don't care what your sob story is, if you threaten to take someone's life I hope you end up dead-dead-dead.
Kudos to the pizza driver, he probably saved many people from being the scum's next victims.
It makes me happy as hell to see a scumbag DOA instead of in the revolving door of the judicial system.
I don't care if it was for his next meth hit (probably) or for his 5 year old daughter with cancer.... he threatened to take someone's life over something as pathetic as money.
I don't care what your sob story is, if you threaten to take someone's life I hope you end up dead-dead-dead.
Kudos to the pizza driver, he probably saved many people from being the scum's next victims.
Looks like another score for the good guys. I just hope that people realize there has to be a provable intent or some sort of life threatening action by the bg before you open fire. That is probabley what they are waiting on in this case to ensure the shoot was justified. I basically believe this guy will be free and clear by the way the article describes the incident. This sounds like either a crime of opportunity or ambush, I tend to think it was ambush with the number of people involved rushing the car. Then there is the common sense issue, If you are driving to deliver a pizza you don't pull up in the middle of a crowd armed with potentially deadly weapons. Over confidence gets more people hurt by putting themselves into a bad situation thinking they can do it.
Anyway glad to hear another BG is off the street.
Anyway glad to hear another BG is off the street.
When good folks triumph and bad folks get their just desserts is a perfectly appropriate time to celebrate.
The inverse is also appropriate:
When good folks lose and bad folks triumph is it perfectly appropriate to mourn.
It is not blood lust. It is merely celebrating the triumph of good over evil.
The inverse is also appropriate:
When good folks lose and bad folks triumph is it perfectly appropriate to mourn.
It is not blood lust. It is merely celebrating the triumph of good over evil.
JamisJockey
member
Read the post by AR-15 Rep. Well stated observation of the post. No crazy blood lust or crappy one liners.
There are lots of downsides. Did good triumph over evil? Yes. Its just a shame that it had to happen at all, and the poorly thought-out comments of some are on thier way to make us all look like blood thirsty mall ninjas.
Well you know what opinions are like but...
"It's a shame that it had to happen at all..."
I disagree. Knuckleheads are going to rob people regardless. I think it's a great thing that these knuckleheads picked a target that ended up fighting back. Now we have less knuckleheads for everybody else to worry about.
"It's a shame that it had to happen at all..."
I disagree. Knuckleheads are going to rob people regardless. I think it's a great thing that these knuckleheads picked a target that ended up fighting back. Now we have less knuckleheads for everybody else to worry about.
SSN Vet
Member
Amen to that!!!
and it's not even about a buck for the shareholder....it's about stock options and golden parachuttes for the CEO and CFO.
Pizza Delivery man shoot robber Local paper.
Driver had previous shooting
Robbery alleged in 2000 delivery incident
FLINT
THE FLINT JOURNAL FIRST EDITION
Friday, May 11, 2007
By Kim Crawford
[email protected] • 810.766.6242
FLINT - A pizza deliveryman who shot and killed an alleged robber
Wednesday night also shot and wounded a man while delivering pizzas
seven years ago, according to police records.
The prior incident occurred in March 2000, when Brian Williams shot a
21-year-old man in the chest on E. Dartmouth Street.
At the time, Williams said the man was trying to rob him, and the man
that was shot declined to make a police complaint, the records say.
Flint police said Wednesday's incident remains under investigation.
"It's going to take some time to go through the evidence," Sgt. Lee Ann
Gaspar said.
Williams, who has delivered pizzas for years, was on a run when he
allegedly was robbed by men about 10 p.m. on Hammerberg Road near Stoney
Brook Court.
When one of them hit him with a wrench, Williams opened fire with his
pistol and killed Corneilus D. Gainer, 24, police said.
Williams carried the gun for his own protection and has a concealed
weapons permit.
Genesee County Prosecutor David Leyton said Williams has had previous
dangerous encounters.
"It was a very similar scenario," Leyton said about the driver. "He'd
been victimized previously."
Leyton stressed that his office will not rush to judgment on the
shooting and is working with Flint police to review the evidence.
"We want to be very careful with situations like this," he said.
Williams spent the night in the Genesee County Jail but was released
Thursday pending further investigation.
His attorney, Michael P. Manley, said Thursday he expected Williams to
be exonerated.
"He was a victim of an armed robbery ... a savage beating, I might add,
too," Manley said. "He may have been killed if he hadn't acted in
self-defense."
The other man who allegedly attacked Williams also was arrested.
The scenario Williams has faced twice is one that former pizza driver
Chris Vandecar understands all too well.
Vandecar, 32, has been on the other end of the gun.
Two years ago, Vandecar said, he was taking a pizza to a house in Flint
when he was confronted by an armed robber.
"It was a big old revolver; I think it was probably a .38," he recalled
Thursday
The suspect fired, striking him in the back and missing his spine by a
fraction of an inch. Vandecar, who now works for a Flushing auto
business, still carries the bullet in his body, he said.
That was his last day delivering pizza.
Flint police say those who deliver pizzas or drive cabs face the threat
of violence daily.
But what happened to Williams, a 49-year-old independent contractor
working for Little Caesar's, was an exception.
"On average, I would say we have a robbery of a delivery guy about every
month," said Sgt. Jeff Mabry. "Usually they get mugged; sometimes they
lose their vehicles or their pizzas. Sometimes they get hurt."
How many local pizza drivers in the area may be licensed to carry
firearms is unknown, said Genesee County Sheriff Robert J. Pickell, but
he said County Clerk Michael Carr has estimated there have been between
15,000 to 17,000 CCW permits issued and renewed by the local gun board
since the law governing such permits was liberalized five years ago.
But Pickell said it would not surprise him if more people who work in
jobs like pizza delivery or cab driving were seeking gun permits.
"I think you're going to see more of that," he said. "Flint's rated as
the third most violent in the country. Not everybody who works here went
to college and has a nice, safe job. There are people who have to make a
living delivering pizzas and driving cabs, and they have a right to
defend themselves."
Would Vandecar ever deliver pizzas again?
"No, no, no," he said.
http://www.mlive.com/news/flintjournal/index.ssf?/base/news-43/1178891403178240.xml&coll=5
Driver had previous shooting
Robbery alleged in 2000 delivery incident
FLINT
THE FLINT JOURNAL FIRST EDITION
Friday, May 11, 2007
By Kim Crawford
[email protected] • 810.766.6242
FLINT - A pizza deliveryman who shot and killed an alleged robber
Wednesday night also shot and wounded a man while delivering pizzas
seven years ago, according to police records.
The prior incident occurred in March 2000, when Brian Williams shot a
21-year-old man in the chest on E. Dartmouth Street.
At the time, Williams said the man was trying to rob him, and the man
that was shot declined to make a police complaint, the records say.
Flint police said Wednesday's incident remains under investigation.
"It's going to take some time to go through the evidence," Sgt. Lee Ann
Gaspar said.
Williams, who has delivered pizzas for years, was on a run when he
allegedly was robbed by men about 10 p.m. on Hammerberg Road near Stoney
Brook Court.
When one of them hit him with a wrench, Williams opened fire with his
pistol and killed Corneilus D. Gainer, 24, police said.
Williams carried the gun for his own protection and has a concealed
weapons permit.
Genesee County Prosecutor David Leyton said Williams has had previous
dangerous encounters.
"It was a very similar scenario," Leyton said about the driver. "He'd
been victimized previously."
Leyton stressed that his office will not rush to judgment on the
shooting and is working with Flint police to review the evidence.
"We want to be very careful with situations like this," he said.
Williams spent the night in the Genesee County Jail but was released
Thursday pending further investigation.
His attorney, Michael P. Manley, said Thursday he expected Williams to
be exonerated.
"He was a victim of an armed robbery ... a savage beating, I might add,
too," Manley said. "He may have been killed if he hadn't acted in
self-defense."
The other man who allegedly attacked Williams also was arrested.
The scenario Williams has faced twice is one that former pizza driver
Chris Vandecar understands all too well.
Vandecar, 32, has been on the other end of the gun.
Two years ago, Vandecar said, he was taking a pizza to a house in Flint
when he was confronted by an armed robber.
"It was a big old revolver; I think it was probably a .38," he recalled
Thursday
The suspect fired, striking him in the back and missing his spine by a
fraction of an inch. Vandecar, who now works for a Flushing auto
business, still carries the bullet in his body, he said.
That was his last day delivering pizza.
Flint police say those who deliver pizzas or drive cabs face the threat
of violence daily.
But what happened to Williams, a 49-year-old independent contractor
working for Little Caesar's, was an exception.
"On average, I would say we have a robbery of a delivery guy about every
month," said Sgt. Jeff Mabry. "Usually they get mugged; sometimes they
lose their vehicles or their pizzas. Sometimes they get hurt."
How many local pizza drivers in the area may be licensed to carry
firearms is unknown, said Genesee County Sheriff Robert J. Pickell, but
he said County Clerk Michael Carr has estimated there have been between
15,000 to 17,000 CCW permits issued and renewed by the local gun board
since the law governing such permits was liberalized five years ago.
But Pickell said it would not surprise him if more people who work in
jobs like pizza delivery or cab driving were seeking gun permits.
"I think you're going to see more of that," he said. "Flint's rated as
the third most violent in the country. Not everybody who works here went
to college and has a nice, safe job. There are people who have to make a
living delivering pizzas and driving cabs, and they have a right to
defend themselves."
Would Vandecar ever deliver pizzas again?
"No, no, no," he said.
http://www.mlive.com/news/flintjournal/index.ssf?/base/news-43/1178891403178240.xml&coll=5
JamisJockey
member
Well you know what opinions are like but...
"It's a shame that it had to happen at all..."
You're taking my statement out of context.
The shame is that our fat, bloated government cannot do anything to prevent crime at the level its at. Its a shame that we refuse to educate our poor, so they turn to crime and drugs. Its a shame that young thugs think that they can boldy rob someone trying to earn an honest living, and even worse that they just walk up and assaulted him. It's a shame that he had to take a life, an action that should never be taken lightly. It's a shame that people on this forum make crappy jokes everytime someone has to defend themselves with deadly force against an assailant.
"It's a shame that it had to happen at all..."
You're taking my statement out of context.
The shame is that our fat, bloated government cannot do anything to prevent crime at the level its at. Its a shame that we refuse to educate our poor, so they turn to crime and drugs. Its a shame that young thugs think that they can boldy rob someone trying to earn an honest living, and even worse that they just walk up and assaulted him. It's a shame that he had to take a life, an action that should never be taken lightly. It's a shame that people on this forum make crappy jokes everytime someone has to defend themselves with deadly force against an assailant.
JAMISJOCKEY - "Its a shame that we refuse to educate our poor, so they turn to crime and drugs."
You mean that poor children never have a chance to be educated??
Are poor children forbidden to go to public school??
I thought we had a gigantic public school system throughout this country upon which hundreds of billions of our taxpayers $$$, were spent. (??) A system completely controlled by the teachers and administrators of the N.E.A.
Perhaps Big Brother & Big Nanny should pass a law that states specifically "No poor child shall be forbidden to go to public school."
That should solve the problem and all the poor children will go to school, become educated, and be law abiding, productive citizens for the rest of their lives.
L.W.
You mean that poor children never have a chance to be educated??
Are poor children forbidden to go to public school??
I thought we had a gigantic public school system throughout this country upon which hundreds of billions of our taxpayers $$$, were spent. (??) A system completely controlled by the teachers and administrators of the N.E.A.
Perhaps Big Brother & Big Nanny should pass a law that states specifically "No poor child shall be forbidden to go to public school."
That should solve the problem and all the poor children will go to school, become educated, and be law abiding, productive citizens for the rest of their lives.
L.W.
Well on that argument if we would've never started this inane and unwinnable "war against drugs" then 80% of our prison population wouldn't exist.
And there are plenty of government programs to "prevent" crime at that level. However taking part in those programs requires effort, and that is the catch. Most of the knuckleheads don't like exerting effort, especially if they can do it the easy way, *and* get the high of victimizing somebody at the same time.
It is a shame that "young thugs think they can boldy rob anybody", I will agree with that. I think those "young thugs" should have the fear of God put in them by a populace that accepts it's civic responsibility and arms themselves to defend what they have earned and their freedom and safety.
I know what you are trying to say. The only responsibility society has to punks like that is to let them know that if they do anything like that they are dead.
These knuckleheads can tell their sob stories to God, because nobody in society should give a damn what happened to them to make them do something atrocious. They had their choice.
And there are plenty of government programs to "prevent" crime at that level. However taking part in those programs requires effort, and that is the catch. Most of the knuckleheads don't like exerting effort, especially if they can do it the easy way, *and* get the high of victimizing somebody at the same time.
It is a shame that "young thugs think they can boldy rob anybody", I will agree with that. I think those "young thugs" should have the fear of God put in them by a populace that accepts it's civic responsibility and arms themselves to defend what they have earned and their freedom and safety.
I know what you are trying to say. The only responsibility society has to punks like that is to let them know that if they do anything like that they are dead.
These knuckleheads can tell their sob stories to God, because nobody in society should give a damn what happened to them to make them do something atrocious. They had their choice.
JamisJockey
member
Don't be a dolt. The fact is that our public school system is a failure. Teachers that can't be fired. Poor neighborhoods recieve lower funding. School administrators aren't penalized for low scores. If "we" are going to do it (I mean publicly educate), it should be done right. Our public school system is a failure.
JamisJockey
member
Jamseish:
I fully agree that they made a choice, no matter what thier circumstances, they made a poor choice and this time they paid the piper.
Think of the amount of funding pissed away thanks to the "war on drugs". We could have the best public school system in the world.
I fully agree that they made a choice, no matter what thier circumstances, they made a poor choice and this time they paid the piper.
Think of the amount of funding pissed away thanks to the "war on drugs". We could have the best public school system in the world.
JAMISHJOCKEY - "Don't be a dolt."
"Dolt" Webster's defines "dolt" as a "heavy, stupid person." Hmmm.
Apparently you were referring to me, JJ, as I questioned your idiotic statement, a typical bleeding heart liberal condemnation of "us."
JAMISJOCKEY - "Its a shame that we refuse to educate our poor, so they turn to crime and drugs."
Pure bull feces!
How many more billions upon billions of taxpayer $$$ do you want to throw into the public education system in order to "educate our poor?"
You are obviously unaware that there is personal responsibility required by not only parents, but also children, in order to make sure they go to school and become educated.
Plus, given that many teachers are not qualified to teach, are not only hampering their students' learning, and they can almost never be fired, thanks to the most powerful union in the U.S.
Plus, students can not be disciplined for anything, other than to be suspended for a few days (big deal!), so they respect no one who is supposed to be in an authority position.
If many "poor" parents don't care, and students don't care and many teachers are apathetic, and supervisors are there mainly to secure their pensions, how is the situation to be solved??
So what's your solution there, Einstein? (Other than to chastise "us.")
L.W.
"Dolt" Webster's defines "dolt" as a "heavy, stupid person." Hmmm.
Apparently you were referring to me, JJ, as I questioned your idiotic statement, a typical bleeding heart liberal condemnation of "us."
JAMISJOCKEY - "Its a shame that we refuse to educate our poor, so they turn to crime and drugs."
Pure bull feces!
How many more billions upon billions of taxpayer $$$ do you want to throw into the public education system in order to "educate our poor?"
You are obviously unaware that there is personal responsibility required by not only parents, but also children, in order to make sure they go to school and become educated.
Plus, given that many teachers are not qualified to teach, are not only hampering their students' learning, and they can almost never be fired, thanks to the most powerful union in the U.S.
Plus, students can not be disciplined for anything, other than to be suspended for a few days (big deal!), so they respect no one who is supposed to be in an authority position.
If many "poor" parents don't care, and students don't care and many teachers are apathetic, and supervisors are there mainly to secure their pensions, how is the situation to be solved??
So what's your solution there, Einstein? (Other than to chastise "us.")
L.W.
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