Placing blame

[Prince Yamato]

Most of us know the mistake of disarming the public in any setting. The fact that many others don't get it does not make them less than human. Nor does it make them murderously culpable for the violence done by insanely violent criminals.

The thing is, VT wasn't just an unfortunate happening. The campus administrators ACTIVELY petitioned the VA legislature to ban CCW on campus a year before the shooting. So they are culpable in my book and in many other people's books. They let stupid ideology get in the way of common sense. They also didn't rectify the situation afterwords. There's still no CCW on their campuses. When your ideology costs the lives of 32 students and you still don't change your ways, I say the hell the administrators and with their feelings and I hope the have sleepless nights for the rest of their lives as the deaths of 32 students weigh upon their souls.

 

[Catherine]

PS

PS:

Bingo to Prince Y!

Thank you.

Catherine

 

[dogmush]

But is it so impossible to imagine that the VT administrators are human also? How do we know they haven't had endless sleepless nights blaming themselves for not doing more? Is it possible to consider they even believe in their hearts what they did was right?

Bob, I for one definatly think of them as human. Never said otherwise. I'm sure they did believe in their hearts that they were right. An While I don't wish mental anguish on anyone, I would hope for the sake of their humanity that they had a few sleepless nights.

However, ernestness beforehand, and remorse after the fact, while speaking to their worth as people, doesn't absolve them from their responsibility for helping Cho to act.

The fact of the matter is, they (administrators) conciously took away a very important tool for their students and faculty to defend themselves, and then those students got killed. Weather a gun would have saved anyone is moot, they didn't even have the chance to try. And the responsibility for denying them that chance is the administrators.

It's their humanity that proves their responsability.


As far as them poster goes, yes definatlly a little more graphic then most. But if there's a time and place to be shocking and graphic (and there is) the issue of forcably disarmed colleges is it. Those folks are (mostly) adults, and are lined up for slaughter in what is becoming a target of choice for criminals.

 

[physics]

I like it but for one detail. I think using the idiot's name is giving him the glory that he was looking for. Let's remember him not as Cho, but as the VT lunatic.

 

[sm]

Those folks are (mostly) adults, and are lined up for slaughter in what is becoming a target of choice for criminals.

First off,
Catherine, thank you for your post ma'am.


Now, again I am fed up with the Dumbing Down of Society.
It has not been too many years ago folks would show :

-Nazi Germany and pictures of those lined up for slaughter, and the pictures of the dead piled up.

-Vietnam and it graphic Pictures

Now we have a society that says teachers cannot use a Red Pencil to grade papers as it might "offend" a child.
Schools do not allow kids to play "competitive games" as if there is a "winner" there must be a "loser" and we cannot offend the sensibilities of kids if some "loses".

Hey, If Art's Grammaw was not around, I would share in no uncertain terms how I am fed up with this INDOCTRINATION of making wimps out of kids.

If folks want to be controlled, and live under Tyranny in a so called Utopia, then get the Hades out of my country as I am fed up with you breathing MY air.

Leave, get out and the faster the better!

WE have had a society of wimps being raised and continue to have wimps being raised.
America is great because we stood up, men and women, boy and girls and taught folks how we wanted to be treated - that being - were were going to be Free, and continue to be Free.

One teaches one how they want to be treated.

Zero Tolerance in my day, is different from Today.

I was raised to not start a fight, still, if I got in one, I had better end it!

If a Bully comes up and hits a kid, that kid has a Right to punch that Bully in the nose , and he/she gets back up, hit them again.

That is how one teaches a Bully to treat them - not whimpering and running and cowering as that teaches other Bullies how one wants to be treated.

These NO CCW Zones are proven in teaching Criminals how Society wants to be be victims.

I am fed up with Insurance Companies dictating what Schools , Businesses and whomever else does what.
Tyranny will use whatever resource it can, to take away Freedom.

Heck some Police Depts are so "hampered" by Insurance Regs and fear of liability they have "lawyer triggers" on guns and the like.
I got an idea, tell the Insurance company to pound sand, and instead give the cops equipment, including plenty of training , real guns, with plenty of ammo to hit what needs hitting.
Between criminals getting hit when needing hit and jails keeping criminals in jail and killing those that need killing by Capitol Punishment, - we will teach criminals how we want to be treated.

Tort Reform would help a lot too.

Good Grief, no wonder a Cop needs a "hi-cap nine", it takes a Ford 250 in 4wd to trip a trigger on these guns.
Get them old Smiths and Colts with real triggers and they can made quick effective hits.


Evil comes and starts a fight, by golly folks have a Right, to stop evil.
This teaches Evil how society wants to be treated, and that being , they want to be free, and are willing to fight to be free.

The ability to defend is a deterrent.
One does not hear of Evil going to a Police Station and shooting up the joint.

VT Admins need to leave their positions as we do not need those more interested in Politics, Ego, Job Status, Insurance Regs and whatever else, more than folks having the right to defend, in daily activities of living.


That goes for anyone, that denies one their Rights as set forth in COTUS and BoR.

If these folks want Utopia, and Tyranny, again, get the Hades out of my country and move to wherever this Utopia is.

Kids are our future, and is scary and sickening what this Great Society is indoctrinating and brainwashing kids with.

VT is not the only tragedy, there are others, and I feel the same way about the Admins and decision makers that denied the rights of victims there as well.


Like I said, one teaches one how to treat them ,and I do not like The Great Society, teaching folks to be victims.


Yes, for those wondering-
I have been on a campus where there was shootings.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Well done, Oleg.

 

[gallo]

This is a cheap shot. No different than an anti using the tragedy to call for more gun control.

 

[HK G3]

This will be sure to ruffle some feathers.

Definitely agree with the sentiment, but I dunno exactly how well it will be received, or whether it will do anything to convert fence-sitters or just generate more of the "typical gun-nuts" sentiment, especially since it's directly "using" the dead students to make a point. Additionally, implying criminal liability to the administrators, all of whom obviously didn't want 32 dead students under their watch, regardless of whether or not we agree with their philosophy on RKBA, is likely to offend people, and potentially make them dismiss our position on the issue - just like that pathetic Brady Campaign "Die-In" thing that happened this year, which seems to have done more harm than good for their position.

 

[yokel]

The full blood-curdling horror would be brought home by depicting a gore-drenched room full of dead or dying unarmed students.

It should be considered by critics to have higher aspirations, such as social commentary, than to be simply exploitative for its own sake.

 

[Ric in Richmond]

I went to Tech, class of 87.

I agree 100% with Oleg's poster.

Every time the school calls for money I say the same thing.

"The school management needs to admit fault, or be fired and Concealed weapon holders need to be recognized as law abiding citizens and allowed lawful carry before the school gets a dime." (we will cross the OC bridge later!)

I have an employee who was there that spring. She came out typical college kids, afraid of guns. Now she understands the issue and is so angry about the admin disarming the legal carrying CITIZENS for no reason.

 

[Apple a Day]

VT class of '93. I had a former student in that building.

It's too much. The anti's will dig in their heels at that one, calling us bloodthirsty. Families of the dead will look at it and see their kid's face.

The administrators will turn their eyes away. The loved ones of the dead will stare at it. It's a powerful shot but it will hit the wrong target.

 

[lee n. field]

The Blood Is On Their Hands Too

I've taken some heat elsewhere for making the very same point.

 

[cambeul41]

The original is not too graphic. It needs to get the message through.

As to "How do we know they haven't had endless sleepless nights blaming themselves for not doing more?" until the victim disarmament policy is abolished, they need the sleepless nights to give them time to think things through.

 

[hso]

They banned guns on campus, but refused to ban a psychopathic murder.

We see how well that worked out.

Allow carry on campus for CCW holders.

 

[basicblur]

But is it so impossible to imagine that the VT administrators are human also? How do we know they haven't had endless sleepless nights blaming themselves for not doing more?

This brings to mind a quote I once heard: Let's not be so tolerant that we tolerate intolerance.

I know VCDL was actively pushing VT officials to allow CC on campus well before Cho’s attack-they pointed out that by making VT a “gun free zone” administrators were just setting the stage for a predator to pick easy targets. Their warnings did (and continue) to fall on deaf ears.

AFA having sleepless night for not doing more...
exactly what "more" have they done since this tragedy?

 

[Colt46]

Graphic

Does it make some people uncomfortable? Hopefully VA-Tech's administration will be made to feel 'uncomfortable' knowing that their cowardly policy allowed a predator to kill thirty two people that were disarmed by the actions.

Besides, if an artist doesn't attract a bit of controversy he isn't really that much of an artist.

 

[JKimball]

I agree it is not too graphic. It is actually a mild representation of what it is reminding us about. I hope it gets people's attention, even if it is the attention of the loved ones of the dead. Maybe they will demand action from the admins.

I've also noticed that Oleg's work does have a tendency at times to widen the gulf that separates the people on both sides of this issue, rather than trying to win over fencesitters or antis. But that strategy allows him to do his thing without pulling punches and can be powerful.

I don't believe the admins have blood on their hands. They made a policy that seemed reasonable and prudent to them, based on the policies at practically every other college in America. Sure they made a bad decision, but if they are to blame, then so is the student body that willingly accepted and in reality probably preferred that policy.

 

[bdickens]

Sometimes the truth hurts and this time I hope it hurts the VT administration gets their feelings hurt bad by this.

They need to see this. So does the rest of the country.

People in this country also need to see the pictures and video of people jumping to their deaths out of the windows of the World Trade Center. And the videos of the murderous vermin in Iraq hacking people's heads off. People need to be forced to see that. Over and over.

Enough of hiding the truth and sugarcoating things!

 

[Vern Humphrey]

To any VT administrators who feel this poster is too graphic, I say, "If your eye cannot bear to see what your hand has done, you should have stayed your hand."

 

[Rokyudai]

Puh-leez....

Those with a delicate constitution need not apply. I see worse images on foxnews.com anyway.

What are the similarities between something like this and, say, a road side memorial, a candlelight vigil, a yellow ribbon on your car, a "never forget" 9/11 twin tower button, a funeral mass? THEY ALL CAN ENVOKE EMOTION AND HOPEFULLY REFLECTION.

Now, how many times have you not even given a second glance to that white cross adorned with flowers in the highway median? Don't feel bad. Some symbols do not register as fast or as deep as others. Powerful statements need powerful images.

Keep up the good work Oleg.

Rok

 

[iiibdsiil]

Damn, that's powerful.

When you make a mistake you get to deal with the consequences.

Good job Oleg!

 

[Oleg Volk]

From a current VT student

That is a very potent graphic. Even as we get to be well over a year since
the attack, the memories for me are still very fresh. That was a pretty
upsetting image. I only wish the administrators would see it and be as
moved to take preventative action. They've made some efforts, but they've
all been costly and ineffective thus far, except perhaps the changing of
door handles so they can no longer be chained shut. At least if anybody
made it to the hall, they could have escaped.

Anyway, thanks for the poster!

For a responding cop

I have to admit this one doesn't really do it for me. It is so far off the mark of what I remember that I simply can't identify with it. Unfortunately what I remember may be too gruesome to reproduce in photographs.

 

[rainbowbob]

Let's not be so tolerant that we tolerate intolerance.

I like that...

I too believe the VT admins should have lost sleep over this tragedy. And they should have heeded the calls for CCW on campus. And they should have the sense and decency to change their position and allow it now.

But...

Implying that they are criminally culpable for this horror is not factually, legally, or morally accurate.

Any more than implying that the gun dealer who sold the shooter the firearms is criminally culpable.

I'm sure my own bias is showing - but I am much more inclined to hold the "mental health" system culpable for allowing a person who was clearly a danger to himself and others to decide (with a diseased brain) to refuse treatment.

If I remember correctly, he was ordered to get treatment - but there was zero follow-up or enforcement by authorities. Why is it that nobody is offended by that fact?

You may be squeamish about infringing someone like Cho's civil liberties by forcing them into treatment.

I'm not.

 

[Oleg Volk]

VT admins have not changed the campus prohibition on carry, though I suspect it is rather less heeded now. So they are still aiding the next killer to come through...they've had two thus far.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Implying that they are criminally culpable for this horror is not factually, legally, or morally accurate.

]
The right to keep and bear arms is constitutional. In this case the government, through the agency of the VT administration, violated the student's rights, deprived them of the means of self-defense, and they died.

Violation of civil rights under color of authority, contributing to the victims' death.

Yeah, that's a crime.