Plant worker in Kentucky kills four after dispute

[leadcounsel]

I would LOVE for a victim of these types of shootings to SUE the business/property owner for rules prohibiting lawful concealed carry!

 

[FCFC]

It's a textbook example for the anti position.

Too bad someone didn't take his gd gun away from him.

I'm not sure what to make of these seemingly contradictory comments by the OP.

You seem to bemoan the fact that these incidents are fuel for gun-grabbers...and then bemoan the fact that nobody grabbed his guns.

What is "seemingly contradictory" to you about those comments?

 

[Ash]

At what point should this guy have been stripped of his rights? Do you mean to say, somebody should have hit him over the head and taken his firearm while entering the building, or that he should have been disarmed long before?

If the former, I agree. If the latter, what is to differentiate him, a worker, from any other worker? Of from me? Gun grabbers wish to disarm all of us because of this man.

As to those comments, they don't contradict themselves directly. If in the original post the belief is to actually side with the Anti's, then there is no contradiction at all. If the goal is to bemoan the new ammo given to anti's, then it is very, very contradictory.

Ash

 

[jrfoxx]

do you think if every one had a gun on thier hip at that plant it would have stoped him from killing some one?

Might not have stopped him from killing someone, but very possibly could have stopped him from being able to kill four people. We've seen MANY times how well having everyone except the killer, disarmed works. What say we see how things play out when people in places like this have the option of defending themselves.

Seems to have worked out VERY well in Utah for Jean Kassam at that
church.

we keep doing the same thing over and over, and expecting the results to change, and then act stunned when they dont.

 

[TAB]

How fast can you draw aim and fire your 1st shot? A good time is around 1.5 seconds.

Now how fast can do you do it when you don't know whats going on, drop whats in your hands, draw and fire.

id be willing to bet that I can double tap 4 targets and start a reload before you can hit me.

 

[Henry Bowman]

Gun free zones don't prevent crime, but the also do not increase it.

Nor does preventing gun free zones increase crime.

 

[woodybrighton]

a gun free zone with secure fencing and armed guards is probably going to prevent most shootings.
doubt there is much practical thing to prevent this sort of thing too many guns already out there

 

[MakAttak]

id be willing to bet that I can double tap 4 targets and start a reload before you can hit me.

Ok...

So you could kill 4.

I'll bet I can shoot 8 times (I'll pick a 1911), reload, shoot 8 more times, reload, shoot 8 more times, reload, shoot 8 more times, reload, shoot 8 more times, reload, shoot 8 more times, reload...

Before the police could get there.

Before you could run to your car and retrieve your weapon.

Your argument is a non-sequitor:

As the employee was leaving, he took out a gun, shot the supervisor, then charged back into a break room and shot several employees. Then he returned to the floor and shot another employee before killing himself, Philbrook said. Between 35 and 40 workers were inside the factory at the time.

He shot people in many seperate areas of the plant. He didn't draw, fire 4 times, and shoot himself, all before anyone had any time to react.

 

[HANDLOADER]

I live very near to the area where this happened and am outraged that there was no one there wih a CCW on them to stop the shooter. I fear that this incident may cause the state of kentucky to make some outrages law on the possion of handguns.

 

[jrfoxx]

How fast can you draw aim and fire your 1st shot? A good time is around 1.5 seconds.

Now how fast can do you do it when you don't know whats going on, drop whats in your hands, draw and fire.

id be willing to bet that I can double tap 4 targets and start a reload before you can hit me.

Yup. You've convinced me. Clearly there is no reason for anyone except Jerry Miculek to carry a gun, sine everyone will be dead before any of the rest of us can get a shot off. We need to all turn in our permits, since clearly we are only fooling ourselves by carrying. Tab, you can go first.

 

[Defensory]

The mall parking lot in the link below is a "gun free zone" (GFZ), and even has a police substation located there. A police officer from the substation was being interviewed right in the parking lot, when a drive-by shooting occurred only a short distance away. So much for GFZ's and even armed police officers being able to protect people!

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1a9_1188796825

 

[Defensory]

Posted by TAB:
How fast can you draw aim and fire your 1st shot? A good time is around 1.5 seconds.

Now how fast can do you do it when you don't know whats going on, drop whats in your hands, draw and fire.

id be willing to bet that I can double tap 4 targets and start a reload before you can hit me.

Four dead is tragic, but it beats the hell out of 32 dead like at Virginia Tech. The hard fact is, if VT hadn't been a gun free zone, citizens with concealed handguns could've taken Cho down much sooner, saving dozens of lives.

The shooting a while back at the church would've been MUCH worse if it hadn't been for the female security officer who shot the puke.

 

[jrfoxx]

The shooting a while back at the church would've been MUCH worse if it hadn't been for the female security officer who shot the puke.

Yup. I was actually just comming back to edit my last post to mention jean Assam. I guess she didnt get the memo that by the time she figured out what was going on, dropped what was in her hands, and drew her gun, it would be too late to do anything. Whew! Good thing she hadnt read on a gun forum how she wouldnt be able to do that, or she might not have even bothered to try.Wonder what the body count would have been if she hadnt had and used her gun? I recall the BG had a LOT of ammo with him.....

 

[Defensory]

"Murray was carrying two handguns, an assault rifle and over 1,000 rounds of ammunition, said Sgt. Jeff Johnson of the Colorado Springs Police Department....Boyd said Assam was the one who suggested the church beef up its security Sunday following the Arvada shooting, which it did. The pastor credited the security plan and the extra security for preventing further bloodshed....About 7,000 people were on the church campus at the time of the shooting, said Boyd....Boyd said Assam's actions saved the lives of 50 to 100 people."

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/14817480/detail.html

 

[Green Lantern]

yes they should be blameless... an employee left, and came back...Most employees do that once a day... its called lunch... many do it more then once. Or would you rather a company strip search every one when the enter and leave? Or metal detectors every where?

I would rather that a company make SOME sort of provision for employee SAFETY and SECURITY. In fact, I would daresay there are laws about such a thing.

A strip search is a bit much, but if you're going to disarm your employees, is it too much to ask for a metal detector with armed guards to ensure that EVERYONE really IS disarmed?

 

[makarovnik]

Like I always say "Best to level the playing field".

 

[TAB]

A strip search is a bit much, but if you're going to disarm your employees, is it too much to ask for a metal detector with armed guards to ensure that EVERYONE really IS disarmed?

and who is going to pay for that? You can't always pass on your price increases too your custmers. Funny thing about custmers, they get really mad when you raise prices.

 

[siglite]

Wait, has anyone even determined that the plant was a criminal protection zone? Maybe I'm missing it, but I haven't seen anything that says the plant was indeed posted.

 

[Green Lantern]

and who is going to pay for that? You can't always pass on your price increases too your custmers. Funny thing about custmers, they get really mad when you raise prices

Aaaaand THAT'S the kind of thinking that leads to employees (rightly) grumbling that the "brass" cares much more about their profits than they do about their employees' lives/safety.

 

[dalepres]

Gun free zones don't prevent crime, but the also do not increase it.

I disagree. Ever hear of a shooting spree at a gun show? While I have heard of robberies at gun stores by particularly stupid - and sometimes lucky - people, I have never heard of a shooting spree at a gun store either.

And while other armed employees may not have stopped him from shooting some of the people, they could have stopped him from shooting all of the people that he shot.

Besides, this guy was a coward. He got his feelings hurt and he wasn't man enough to live with that so he came armed into a herd of helpless people and started shooting. Once he realized he was going to spend the rest of his life in prison, he took the cowards' way out again and killed himself.

Had he any expectation that others there were armed he wouldn't have gone on this spree. He may have targeted the supervisor individually and elsewhere but he wouldn't have gone into a room full of armed people and pulled a gun.

 

[dalepres]

woodybrighton: a gun free zone with secure fencing and armed guards is probably going to prevent most shootings.
doubt there is much practical thing to prevent this sort of thing too many guns already out there

Did I misunderstand something here or are you in the wrong forums?

 

[DrewH]

I disagree. Ever hear of a shooting spree at a gun show? While I have heard of robberies at gun stores by particularly stupid - and sometimes lucky - people, I have never heard of a shooting spree at a gun store either

Their have been shooting sprees at police stations. Also many in places where people can CCW, for that matter.

I am for letting people carry their guns as freely as possible, and certainly at this workplace (was it even posted?) but I do not think it is a universal panacea to to stop these shooting sprees. Sometimes, someone may be in position to help, most of the time not, just based on reaction times.

Something we, and every other nation on earth (they are not U.S. only by any means) are just going to have to live with.

On the flip side this guy got mad, went out and got his gun-he certainly wouldn't been deterred for a second by a gun free zone.

 

[LWGN]

woodybrighton: a gun free zone with secure fencing and armed guards is probably going to prevent most shootings.
doubt there is much practical thing to prevent this sort of thing too many guns already out there

Did I misunderstand something here or are you in the wrong forums?

I would say that if woodybrighton really feels this way, then this forum is the perfect place to be. Perhaps some of the posters here can politely present well-reasoned arguments that will contribute to educating the poster about guns and gun rights, and why they are vitally important.

Oleg welcomes people with all viewpoints regarding firearms here on the forum. If you only talk to people who believe the ame things you do, you have no oppotunity to get a different perspective.

 

[TAB]

disagree. Ever hear of a shooting spree at a gun show? While I have heard of robberies at gun stores by particularly stupid - and sometimes lucky - people, I have never heard of a shooting spree at a gun store either

most gun shows are "gun free zones" you can not carry there, infact every gun show I've ever been at expressly forbid it.

 

[Green Lantern]

....Uhm, there's a difference in the case of gun shows. It is by NO MEANS a "gun free zone," though CCW is generally forbidden.

There are plenty of brain-dead crooks out there, but I haven't yet heard of a criminal stupid enough to choose a gunshow for his "I'm offing myself and taking as many people with me as I can!" moment...