ClickClickD'oh
Member
What, no love for the RAMI?
Pocket 9mm
- Thread starter GunLvrNLearner
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JohnBT
Member
"A full size 9mm service pistol can reach 400-450 foot pounds easily--about 40% more than the rohrbaugh. We do need to be objective about it."
There are some rounds that will, if your gun will handle +P+.
Speaking of objectivity, did you notice the thread title? It's "Pocket 9mm", not "What's my favorite pistol." Nice try, but recommending a full-sized Glock won't fly and doesn't address the question asked. If you're going to go that far off topic, why not suggest shotgun?
"and honestly the idea of a dedicated pocket pistol as a primary carry piece is sort of nonsensical unless you never wear a shirt."
Nonsensical to you, not to a great many people. Honestly.
I've carried everything from a 1884 S&W breaktop .38 (twice) to a BHP using appendix carry and a standard 1911 on my belt and everything in between and what works for me, works for me. You do what you want.
John
There are some rounds that will, if your gun will handle +P+.
Speaking of objectivity, did you notice the thread title? It's "Pocket 9mm", not "What's my favorite pistol." Nice try, but recommending a full-sized Glock won't fly and doesn't address the question asked. If you're going to go that far off topic, why not suggest shotgun?
"and honestly the idea of a dedicated pocket pistol as a primary carry piece is sort of nonsensical unless you never wear a shirt."
Nonsensical to you, not to a great many people. Honestly.
I've carried everything from a 1884 S&W breaktop .38 (twice) to a BHP using appendix carry and a standard 1911 on my belt and everything in between and what works for me, works for me. You do what you want.John
hardluk1
member
Kel-tech pf-9 is a real pocket pistol. Lite enought to almost forget its there. Remember it is about a pocket pistol and when small guns get above 21 oz that ain;t pocket anymore. It will pull on material and show .
The Lone Haranguer
Member
Still a very compact belt gun, not a pocket gun, due to its thicker grip.ClickClickD'Oh said:
It does carry five more rounds, though.The Kahr PM9 is at the upper size limit of what I consider to be a truly practical pocket gun.
outerlimit
Member
That is the first I've ever seen of that Taurus. It looks interesting, I'm not a big fan of Taurus products in general, but they are a very innovative manufacturer.
oneounceload
member
I would like to see someone POCKET carry a full size 9mm. The Rohrbaugh is the smallest 9mm out there, and one of the best made of any size. IF you're are going to carry a pocket 9, that is the one to get - NOT cheap, but then what's your life worth to you?
ClickClickD'oh
Member
I pocket carried mine every day until I got my high noon IWB tuckable.
I was glad to get the pocket back once I went tuckable though.
It still occasionally gets the pocket treatment... tuxs come to mind. Hence, it's become known as my wedding gun.
outerlimit
Member
Had one, didn't like it, went back to the Kahr.
That was back when they were $800 and came with carbon fiber grips.
The price on them now is so totally out of line that it's shocking.
As far as I'm aware they never did completely hash out the keyholing problem.
I think the Rohrbaugh's best role is as a last ditch backup weapon.
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smoke63b
Member
I hate mouseguns but the Kahr CW9 works fine in my pocket. It's VERY thin and light and a super accurate shooter considering it's compact size. Not too heavy either. I even wear it IWB of my jogging shorts when I go running every day. I just use a cheapo nylon holster with a clip for that. Barely even tugs on my shorts with no belt.
I dont think he was recommending a fullsize pistol. Rather I think his point, and it is a valid one, is that a very small pocket 9mm while it provides more power than a .380 does not provide the same type of performance as a full size 9mm. Many people may not realize the smaller guns don't have the same performance. It is also worth while to point out that the increase in power is smaller than one might expect and thus might not warrant buying a new and much more expensive firearm to replace the OPs .380.
Nothing wrong with discussion and facts.
If I were after a pocket 9mm and price was not a factor I would go for the pm9. Although some larger firearms can be carried in some pockets, I for example can at times pocket carry a K9 easily. Other pants will not allow that. Same for the PF9 (I dont own one but my friend does), the G26, etc.
JohnBT
Member
"I dont think he was recommending a fullsize pistol."
Reads that way to me.
Re: Rohrbaugh keyholing.
I haven't seen any recent reports of it happening on the Rohrbaugh forum, but I'm not a daily visitor. The original complaint was from Gun Tests magazine review that so full of mistakes it makes good reading. The solution appears to be: shoot what the factory recommends.
There's an interesting Gun Tests rebuttal from the manufacturer. It's a very lengthy letter that he sent them.
www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=R9S;action=display;num=1091220026
"7/29/04
Dear Mr. Winkle,"
(1. Gun Tests didn't buy the gun like they claimed and it worked for all of the other reviewers.)
"I feel that at this point in the letter, I should point out a very salient fact (while we are at the beginning) - the pistol that was tested, by GUN TESTS, was the exact same one, Serial #R170 (see photos in the American Handgunner and the photo in GT,) that was tested approximately a month prior, by AH, and then sent to you. Ironically they seemed to have a different opinion of the function, accuracy and reliability. I might also point out that Serial #R170 was also tested by Massad Ayoob approximately one week ago at a workshop in Long Island, after you returned it to our factory. His opinion regarding the accuracy and reliability did not seem to match yours.
2. "Funny, this was also listed in the owner’s manual. Ironically, Roy Huntington and Mickey Fowler did not seem to have an issue, and consistently shot 2½-inch groups at 25 yards. I personally witnessed Mr. Ayoob place 6 headshots at 10 yards into a regulation IPSC target that could be covered by a silver dollar. Now this was the same gun in all tests, and Mr. Ayoob’s test was the gun that you returned. Imagine, the exact same gun fired by different hands - different results. There is no planned designed to limit the twist to decrease the recoil. I submit that the ammunition choices, or just “flinching” caused your problem. This has never been reported by us or other owners. On the other hand, we were able to hit golf balls at 25 feet, so I submit that the accuracy is pretty good."
Reads that way to me.
Re: Rohrbaugh keyholing.
I haven't seen any recent reports of it happening on the Rohrbaugh forum, but I'm not a daily visitor. The original complaint was from Gun Tests magazine review that so full of mistakes it makes good reading. The solution appears to be: shoot what the factory recommends.
There's an interesting Gun Tests rebuttal from the manufacturer. It's a very lengthy letter that he sent them.
www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=R9S;action=display;num=1091220026
"7/29/04
Dear Mr. Winkle,"
(1. Gun Tests didn't buy the gun like they claimed and it worked for all of the other reviewers.)
"I feel that at this point in the letter, I should point out a very salient fact (while we are at the beginning) - the pistol that was tested, by GUN TESTS, was the exact same one, Serial #R170 (see photos in the American Handgunner and the photo in GT,) that was tested approximately a month prior, by AH, and then sent to you. Ironically they seemed to have a different opinion of the function, accuracy and reliability. I might also point out that Serial #R170 was also tested by Massad Ayoob approximately one week ago at a workshop in Long Island, after you returned it to our factory. His opinion regarding the accuracy and reliability did not seem to match yours.
2. "Funny, this was also listed in the owner’s manual. Ironically, Roy Huntington and Mickey Fowler did not seem to have an issue, and consistently shot 2½-inch groups at 25 yards. I personally witnessed Mr. Ayoob place 6 headshots at 10 yards into a regulation IPSC target that could be covered by a silver dollar. Now this was the same gun in all tests, and Mr. Ayoob’s test was the gun that you returned. Imagine, the exact same gun fired by different hands - different results. There is no planned designed to limit the twist to decrease the recoil. I submit that the ammunition choices, or just “flinching” caused your problem. This has never been reported by us or other owners. On the other hand, we were able to hit golf balls at 25 feet, so I submit that the accuracy is pretty good."
bltmonty
Member
wow, I really touched a nerve.
These are the quotes I responded to:
First Conwit: "IMO something like the rohrbaugh with factory loads would disappoint in energy and velocity if we were to look at it objectively. It's 9mm, but it's not 9mm from a Glock with full size barrel."
Then JohnBT says: "If we looked at it? You mean you haven't. The truth is out there... And how's that Glock look in your pocket? The Rohrbaugh does just fine thankyouverymuch.
So I responded by saying that the Rohrbaugh's energy is only 60% of a glock with a full size barrel.
Pretty simple ballistics. And I don't own a glock, but many sub compact 9s and 40s, so I understand well the ballistics.
These are the quotes I responded to:
First Conwit: "IMO something like the rohrbaugh with factory loads would disappoint in energy and velocity if we were to look at it objectively. It's 9mm, but it's not 9mm from a Glock with full size barrel."
Then JohnBT says: "If we looked at it? You mean you haven't. The truth is out there... And how's that Glock look in your pocket? The Rohrbaugh does just fine thankyouverymuch.
So I responded by saying that the Rohrbaugh's energy is only 60% of a glock with a full size barrel.
Pretty simple ballistics. And I don't own a glock, but many sub compact 9s and 40s, so I understand well the ballistics.
bltmonty
Member
And to add one other thing about 9mm ballistics:
Doubletap: 115gr @ 1415fps / 511ft. lbs. from a G17.
Corbon: 9 MM LUGER +P 115 GR. JHP 1350 FPS/466 FTLBS
Vihtavuori 124 gr at 1296 447 ftlbs
Doubletap: 115gr @ 1415fps / 511ft. lbs. from a G17.
Corbon: 9 MM LUGER +P 115 GR. JHP 1350 FPS/466 FTLBS
Vihtavuori 124 gr at 1296 447 ftlbs
I carry an MK9 in my pocket regularly and it doesn't pull my pants down, even without a belt. It is heavier than the PM9 and other smaller pocket guns, but I wanted one I could practice with lots at the range and not worry about reliability. An all steel gun was what I ended up with, and I don't regret the decision. I will probably pick up a PM9 in 5 years or so, but I'm all obsessed buying rifles right now.
I have been carrying the PF9 in a Galco Pocket Holster for several years very comfortably. It disappears in just about any pocket other than my tighter jeans. I carry it all day in my dress slacks at the office. I throw it into any shorts I wear comfortably. If, like me you want something larger that the .380 in a gun only marginally larger, take a look at the Kel-Tec PF9.
Clockwise from upper left ...
... Kahr PM9 (my second favorite pocket 9mm), Colt Pocket Nine (my favorite pocket 9mm -- also the heaviest), Kel-Tec PF-9 (the biggest and the litest of the bunch) & Rohrbaugh R9S (the smallest of the bunch).
... Kahr PM9 (my second favorite pocket 9mm), Colt Pocket Nine (my favorite pocket 9mm -- also the heaviest), Kel-Tec PF-9 (the biggest and the litest of the bunch) & Rohrbaugh R9S (the smallest of the bunch).
I know you are, but what am I? Just kidding.
My intention wasn't to inflame. My point was, as you actually demonstrated, that few people who give consideration to their concealed weapon choice carry in a pocket 100% of the time, i.e. as a primary piece, because it has more drawbacks than advantages.
This is not a straw man, and I don't even care whether the original poster is considering a 100% all the time pocket carry; this info is just for the benefit of anyone who thinks "I like to carry stuff in my pockets, sounds comfortable, and 9mm is waaay more powerful than .380." If someone who can only afford one gun reads this, is considering carry methods (the most important consideration next to reliability, IMO), and thinks twice about getting a "pocket gun," my point was made.
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outerlimit
Member
My PM9 with 124gr. +P Winchester Ranger was @ about 1080fps for 321fpe if I recall my chrono numbers correctly. Not quite the service pistol power, but still beats the hell out of a .380.
Guillermo
member
I bought a PM9 because I couldn't affort the Rohrbaugh. So far I am quite happy.
That said, the accessory that changed my "carry life" was a 5:11 Instructors Belt. It is reinforced and is a great platform on which to hang a holster or hold up your pants with a gun in the pocket.
I comfortably carry full sized weapons all the time now.
Trust me...it will be the best 30 dollars you ever spent.
That said, the accessory that changed my "carry life" was a 5:11 Instructors Belt. It is reinforced and is a great platform on which to hang a holster or hold up your pants with a gun in the pocket.
I comfortably carry full sized weapons all the time now.
Trust me...it will be the best 30 dollars you ever spent.
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