pocket pistol caliber war .32 vs .380

[scalper]

Rolltide - good response.

It is refreshing to hear someone put a plug in for the 32 ACP over the 380. It seems like we constantly hear about how the 380 is so much better, yet everytime I look at the numbers, I don't see anything that provides a big advantage. Sure the 380 provides a bit more energy, but the difference in loads show have a huge overlap between the two calibers. As you said, really both are marginal for self defense, so ones reason for choosing either one would have to be the size of the pistol.

 

[Tomac]

I've carried various Beretta .32 Tomcats for years as my deep CCW choice (in a DeSantis "Trickster" holster it's just a 2nd wallet), never had any functioning problems whatsoever and find the extra weight useful in managing recoil. IIRC .32 FMJ (which is all I load) penetrates deeper than .380 FMJ and doubt we'd see much difference in real-world effectiveness between the two (shot placement & sufficient penetration, all else is secondary). IMHO it's pretty much personal preference between the two.
Tomac

 

[tinygnat219]

Go with the .380 ACP. It's a bigger, more powerful round (as such things are measured). There are more ammunition selections for it especially with seemingly every company now offering .380 Micro-guns, no chance of jams due to rimlock, and easy to reload for. There are fewer choices out there for .32 ACP guns anyway.

 

[Frizzman]

I have a Colt Mustang Pocketlite .380, a Walther PPK .380 or (9mm Kurtz, if you like) a Bersa .380 and a Kel-tec p32. The difference in practical accuracy is not great between the Pocketlite and the Kel-tec. Both have miniscule sights and small grips. The Walther and Bersa are better to some degree. I think that the best thing about the Colt is that it operates with a locked breech. That makes it able to handle higher intensity .380 with less recoil and the slide doesn't need to be so heavy. Since the difference in effectiveness between a .380 and a .32 is not great and shot placement is VERY critical with all SD situations but even more so with low power cartridges, I would say that I would pick a platform that would allow me to do that the most readily.

Penetration is also very important. These cartridges are not going to deliver much energy. Expansion is not very reliable in these calibers when fired in pistols with very short barrels. if you have ever actually used a handgun to stop a human from doing what they are trying to do for you, then you know that they rarely stand still, face on and let you shoot them. You will need to put rounds into nerve centers to make a quick stop and the skull and other bone shielded structures are not easy to penetrate. The pelvic shot will not be a good choice for these cartridges since they are unlikely to be able to break heavy anatomical like the pelvis. Low velocity rounds rounds like those are not going to do that very reliably. It is truly amazing to witness how much tremendous damage many people can absorb and keep functioning long enough to injure or kill you. They may die of their wounds later but it won't matter to you by then. Go to any big city ER and see the number of people brought in with major gunshot wounds who are alert and capable of killing someone if they had the means.

Given these and other factors, I would have to go with a .380 in the best platform for actual shooting of another human in dynamic movement if the purpose is for CQB as a civilian. Therefore, if that was what I would have to limit myself to as a primary weapon, I would chose a .380 and ball ammo because that would be the better penetrator that might hold together as it penetrates bone and connective tissue. I have witnessed a contact wound to a person's extremity where a 9x19 came completely apart as it attempted to penetrate heavy connective tissue and light bone.

I agree with another person that for real conditions, one of the smaller 9X19's around like the offerings from Kahr or Kel-tec offer a good bit more for about the same weight. Such pistols weren't around when I was a LEO and we were pretty much stuck with a .32 or more commonly, a .380 in a very concealable pistol. I believe that is why the vast majority of us carried small, lightweight 2" .38's...Those are my thoughts on the topic for what its worth...

 

[wristtwister]

My choices are a little different...

BReilly's got the right idea. Both the Makarov and the Feg PA-63 rock with the 9X18 ammo which is a little hotter than a .380 if you buy the right stuff. I've got one of each, and they're dead on accurate and easy to hide. I put some fat grips on my Mak, so it's a little bulkier than before, but still... they both bring a lot of music to the dance as a hideaway.

The PA-63 has a little more recoil since it's aluminum framed, but they're cheap, and if you feed them fmj bullets, they are very reliable. Not so much with hollow points. Neither gun has stovepiped or hang-fired on me.

If you're dead set on a .380, find a Beretta PPK. They've got a track record like Carl Lewis, but I've read some complaints about them... so it's probably an ammo issue (gun being finicky about what you fire in it). I've got both a Beretta 70-S and a LLama Minimax in .380, and never had a problem with either one of them... and both very accurate.

If I was protecting myself, the first one I'd grab is my Makarov, and then the Minimax... then,I'd go fix the cut on my hand from shooting the Mini... happens about every third time I shoot it...:banghead:

WT

 

[dogtown tom]

wristtwister: ...If you're dead set on a .380, find a Beretta PPK. They've got a track record like Carl Lewis, but I've read some complaints about them

You might be looking for a long time......Beretta never made the PPK.

 

[andrewdl007]

I dont know how common a problem it is in new pistols but I was always afraid of the semi rimmed .32ACP rim lock, I think its called. That is where a round in the magazine gets its rim stuck behind the round below it, thus making it impossible to load that round and making the pistol useless. I dont think that is a problem with the .380 therefore I would probably choose a .380 over a .32.

 

[kokapelli]

I had two P-32 pistols when KT came out with the P-3AT I purchased one and it didn't take long for me to sell the the two P32s and get another P-3AT.

No rim-lock problem with 380, better ammo selection and recoil in my opinion is a none issue between the two.

 

[jocko]

koka: Is dead right, never a rim lock problem. Ammo variety is 3X what 32 is, neither a cheap round. More firepower in the 380, bigger hole, in the kt line basically the same size and weight. had a kt 32, it was nice to shoot,just never felt like it was enough to put in my pocket. The 380 lcp fills that bill alot better, although I opt for my kahr PM9 10 to 1

 

[IMTHDUKE]

I never think of these as having recoil issue...

Now, this one...it's not recoil...it's RECOIL when you fire 357mag.

 

[jocko]

any of those 3 weight 9 ounces??

 

[IMTHDUKE]

any of those 3 weight 9 ounces??

No...and I could understand that could definately be the problemo, for in proportion, firing a 357 mag from a 18OZ gun like the one I posted would also cause some RECOIL.

 

[kokapelli]

any of those 3 weight 9 ounces??

Exactly!

 

[Disaster]

You are talking about 30% more bullet weight and 25% more surface area. I don't think you can say they are really close. Othersize you could say the the .32 is real close to the .25, which is real close to the .22 with is real close to the .17...when do you stop? Personally, the .380, with +P's is as low as I care to go.

 

[TMann]

I've owned a P3AT for a few years now, and have been really happy with it. I have a 2nd generation model, and it has been very reliable with both FMJ practice ammo and Cor-Box DPX SD ammo. Recoil is noticeable, but not particularly bothersome.

I am convinced the biggest factor that determines whether people are able to shoot the P3AT effectively is the size of their hand. If you are a big guy, with a big hand, it will be difficult for you to hold onto the tiny Kel-Tec, and you will have more trouble controlling it. If you have smallish hands, as I do, it will be much easier to grip onto this tiny little gun. I have both a rubberized grip and a magazine extension on my P3AT, and these items significantly improve my ability to shoot this gun.

This is one of the few instances in life where it might actually be advantageous to be small in stature. That and having to ride in the coach section of an airplane...

Good luck with your purchase!

TMann

 

[R.W.Dale]

Since posting this thread I've purchased a Kel-Tec P32. I've only fired one box of blazer FMJ through it thus far, even so I'm quite impressed at how shootable and accurate the tiny handgun is. When shooting it it's easy to forget that you're shootin a pistol that could practically fit inside a wallet.

I think the rim lock issue stems from shooting shorter ammunition such as JHP's. When loaded with FMJ's <my ammo of choice for either 380 or 32> there isn't enough room in front of the bullets as loaded in the p32's magazine for rimlock to occur.

In my research into both cartridges one thing I noticed is that in ballistic gel tests both calibers were very erratic performers and under penetrators when shooting JHP's

 

[biggiesmalls]

i like the .32 way better than the .380. if neither cost nor recoil is your concern then does it soley come down to stopping power?

 

[Defensory]

The 9mm Kahr PM9 makes SO much more sense than a puny .380 or .32.

The Kahr's specifications make it a true "pocket pistol":

Overall length---5.3"
Overall height---4.0"
Slide width---9/10's of one inch
Weight fully loaded---About 19 ounces

"Kahr's new pistol is smaller than any contemporary pocket auto of serious power. Some of the popular .25s and .32s are smaller than the PM9, but they're not adequately powerful for defensive applications. There are also plenty of comparable-sized .380 autos that are easily miniaturized because of their blowback systems. But in my view, .380s are not even marginally powerful for personal defense, as some contend. By virtue of its power and small size, the PM9 virtually obsoletes the pocket .380s."

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ga_handguns/perfect_pocket_protection/index.html

 

[R.W.Dale]

The Kahr's specifications make it a true "pocket pistol":

Overall length---5.3"
Overall height---4.0"
Slide width---9/10's of one inch
Weight fully loaded---About 19 ounces

Dude back off the "copy & paste" and try to come up with your own ideas vs parroting what you read in some gun rag.


Kel tec p32

Length : 5.1"
Height : 3.5"
Width : .75"
Weight loaded 9.4 OZ

 

[wristtwister]

Walther...

Dogtown...
my bad... next time I'll put my brain in... ... it's been that kind of week:banghead: I had Beretta's on my mind and it just ran down to my fingers...

Duh!

WT

 

[Defensory]

Posted by krochus:
Dude back off the "copy & paste" and try to come up with your own ideas vs parroting what you read in some gun rag.

Guns & Ammo is a recognized expert authority on firearms, so I will quote them any time I wish, regardless of your little "mad" smilie. Besides, anybody with common sense knows the 9mm has FAR superior stopping power to a "kiddie gun" like the .32 peashooter. We don't even need a gun magazine to ascertain that. Also, I shoot QUALITY firearms, not Kel-Wrecks.

Kel tec p32

Length : 5.1"
Height : 3.5"
Width : .75"
Weight loaded 9.4 OZ

What you neglected to mention is that the .32 ACP has been well documented for many years as having absolutely miserable stopping power. That's why law enforcement agencies in the U.S. and Europe dumped the pathetic little cartridge DECADES ago.

I much prefer a 19 ounce pistol that has a proven excellent chance of actually stopping a determined criminal, over a 9.4 ounce pistol that will very likely get me killed. The extra weight also controls recoil better.

Smaller is NOT better when smaller will most likely get you killed! Combine insufficient power with a "garbage gun" like Kel-Wreck, and your odds of surviving an armed confrontation are NOT good.

 

[R.W.Dale]

What you neglected to mention is that the .32 ACP has been well documented for many years as having absolutely miserable stopping power.

Stopping power is a complete MYTH. Anyone who mentions "stopping power" loses all credibility in my book. You want stopping power? then carry a rifle

Besides, anybody with common sense knows the 9mm has FAR superior stopping power

here's that stopping power myth again. Anyone with a brain knows 10mm is even better than the puny 9mm. Game set match

Also, I shoot QUALITY firearms, not Kel-Wrecks

as if Kahr is known for being the gold standard of quality and reliability

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=4672263#post4672263

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=4273429#post4273429

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=1649509#post1649509

Smaller AIN'T better when smaller will most likely get you killed!

smaller and with you is about 20000x better than larger and at home in the dresser. I'm not going to dress like Bing Crosby in the Arkansas summers in order to hide a "BIG" little gun I would be more likely to die of heatstroke than in a shootout. Do you carry at ALL times with your "compensator"? because I plan to have my little 32 with me everywhere the law allows.

 

[wristtwister]

Dang guys,
I carry full size concealed all the time with shorts and tee-shirt, both 9mm and .40 cal, with no problem. I don't try to wear skin tight shirts or offset holsters, but it's no problem to hide a full size pistol under a shirt. It was 102 here yesterday, and I don't really see the problem with high-heat carrying. Pick a gun with an alloy or synthetic frame, and you should be good to go.

...and I don't dress in "tactical hide-a-vests" either with inside holsters. Tagua slide holster, S&W 5903, Ruger SR-9, or S&W 4006, and unless I'm reaching across my body and turning, you'd never know.

WT

 

[R.W.Dale]

How tall are you? I have trouble buying t shirts long enough to keep my buttcrack from showin much less a handgun.

 

[benderx4]

Krochus: Excellent Post! EXACTLY why I carry my Seecamp LWS32 with me EVERYWHERE I go. Looked at a Kahr PM-9, Rohrbaugh R-9, and Walther PPS, and I knew I wouldn't carry them as much as the .32. Works for me, but then again, there is a huge contingent out there that feels undergunned with anything smaller than a 1911. To each his own.