Pocket Pistols - 380+
- Thread starter tyler500e
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A person once told me.........
Here was the example a person gave me when I asked that very same question many years back.
He said (paraphrased from memory of course) "Say I am holding two guns in my hand, one a .32 ACP-380 auto and the other a 9mm-45 ACP. If your standing 3 feet away from me and I unload each gun until its empty into you which one do you think will hurt you the most if you were attempting to attack me?"
The point being having a gun on your person (small, light weight between .32 and 380 auto) that you will always carry regardless of the clothing you choose to wear (shorts, pants, sweat pants, skirt, dress pants etc..) is better than using your hands to stop a violent attack.
Another thing I thought off is if you have a small caliber handgun and fire the gun at the perps face, just think of the powder blast to the perps eyes that will occur in that moment.
JMO
Have a good one. I think people are gonna bash this post as its been discussed several times before
Here was the example a person gave me when I asked that very same question many years back.
He said (paraphrased from memory of course) "Say I am holding two guns in my hand, one a .32 ACP-380 auto and the other a 9mm-45 ACP. If your standing 3 feet away from me and I unload each gun until its empty into you which one do you think will hurt you the most if you were attempting to attack me?"
The point being having a gun on your person (small, light weight between .32 and 380 auto) that you will always carry regardless of the clothing you choose to wear (shorts, pants, sweat pants, skirt, dress pants etc..) is better than using your hands to stop a violent attack.
Another thing I thought off is if you have a small caliber handgun and fire the gun at the perps face, just think of the powder blast to the perps eyes that will occur in that moment.
JMO
Have a good one. I think people are gonna bash this post as its been discussed several times before
Did you know that President Reagan came VERY close to dying after being hit with a .22 caliber bullet?
Did you know that Seung-Hui Cho (VA Tech massacre) killed 32 people with a .22 cal and 9mm pistols?
.380 is not the most powerful or the deadliest, but they will kill. I trust my wife's life to them. She carries a .380.
Did you know that Seung-Hui Cho (VA Tech massacre) killed 32 people with a .22 cal and 9mm pistols?
.380 is not the most powerful or the deadliest, but they will kill. I trust my wife's life to them. She carries a .380.
Did you know that President Reagan came VERY close to dying after being hit with a .22 caliber bullet?
Did you know that Seung-Hui Cho (VA Tech massacre) killed 32 people with a .22 cal and 9mm pistols?
.380 is not the most powerful or the deadliest, but they will kill. I trust my wife's life to them. She carries a .380.
Did you know that Seung-Hui Cho (VA Tech massacre) killed 32 people with a .22 cal and 9mm pistols?
.380 is not the most powerful or the deadliest, but they will kill. I trust my wife's life to them. She carries a .380.
The Lone Haranguer
Member
They are OK as a backup gun, or as a primary weapon only if the dress and social situation absolutely precludes anything bigger - better than nothing, if you will. There is anecdotal evidence indicating that people who have actually been in shootouts armed with only a pocket pistol or five-shot revolver move ASAP to upgrade their equipment.
benderx4
Member
Tyler - I carry a 32acp because it's all that will fit comfortably in my pocket. God forbid I will EVER have to use the thing, but if I do, I'm pretty confident it will do the job.
ezenbrowntown
Member
This is always a common debated topic, and everyone will give their opinion. You'll hear everything from "nothing less than a 45", to "something is better than nothing", etc.
Personally, everyone has to make their own decision based on their own circumstances. I'd much rather my wife have a .380 she could shoot comfortably and accurately than a .45 she can't comfortably carry or shoot. A .380 in the chest has much better odds of stopping a bad guy than a .45 in the wall. Everyone has to take into account what they can shoot accurately and will be willing to carry.
Personally, everyone has to make their own decision based on their own circumstances. I'd much rather my wife have a .380 she could shoot comfortably and accurately than a .45 she can't comfortably carry or shoot. A .380 in the chest has much better odds of stopping a bad guy than a .45 in the wall. Everyone has to take into account what they can shoot accurately and will be willing to carry.
Phil DeGraves
Member
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Well said.
If all I had was a .380, I wouldn't hesitate to use it if I needed it, and I'd be glad to have it.
That being said, it wouldn't be MY first choice.
practicality
for those of use that are little people it just isn't practical to conceal something larger without a huge print. For me trying to conceal something larger say even a S&W M&P40C is like trying to conceal a small brick. I would be comfortable enough with a 380 for SD.
-Paul
for those of use that are little people it just isn't practical to conceal something larger without a huge print. For me trying to conceal something larger say even a S&W M&P40C is like trying to conceal a small brick. I would be comfortable enough with a 380 for SD.
-Paul
HowardCohodas
Member
I have to carry in deep cover because of family and social obligations. Lots of close hugs. My EDC primary is an M&P 45fs. My EDC BUG is an LCP. I can easily envision scenarios where the LCP will be first into action while I seek cover and engage with the M&P 45fs.
Also, it is quite easy to look casual with your hand in your front pocket while loading your hand with an LCP. No brandishing and ready for defense.
Also, it is quite easy to look casual with your hand in your front pocket while loading your hand with an LCP. No brandishing and ready for defense.
.380awsome
Member
ok first of all unless you are a police officer i doubt its necessary to have a backup gun,and i doubt they even need it when they have 15 shot glocks!,anyway the .380 is more than enough i trust my life to one everyday as ccw pistol ,i use a walther ppk ,my father and his father before him have carried a .380(well my father switched to .38 special eventuallty due to reliability isuues) ,the .380 "at once was considered" a very suitable self defence cartridge ,the truth is that when you get shot it probably wont matter what by or if it kills you,youre not gonna keep fighting most likely ,just IMHO
jjohnson
Member
Better than not carrying!
Oh, sure, I believe that "more firepower is better" but more often than not, I carry a .380 Russian Mak. My preferred carry is a Glock in .40 or .45 M1911, but I'm a small dude and neither one of them is very concealable without a jacket.
The Mak gives me 8+1 of hollow pointed business, maybe in lethality what I'd get from half that in another caliber... but I like carrying it way better than not carrying anything. And that's a very real choice lots of days.
Oh, sure, I believe that "more firepower is better" but more often than not, I carry a .380 Russian Mak. My preferred carry is a Glock in .40 or .45 M1911, but I'm a small dude and neither one of them is very concealable without a jacket.
The Mak gives me 8+1 of hollow pointed business, maybe in lethality what I'd get from half that in another caliber... but I like carrying it way better than not carrying anything. And that's a very real choice lots of days.
benzuncle
Member
There are several "380" threads going on THR right now. Some good info on them also. Check'em out.
brett30030
Member
The subject has been discussed to the point of becoming pointless.
A .22 is deadly lethal, ask Gandhi, it's what killed him.
A .22 is deadly lethal, ask Gandhi, it's what killed him.
HowardCohodas
Member
brett30030 said:
It's only pointless if there is nothing left to learn. For me, I know I still have lots to learn. From your answer, I suggest you may also.
With respect to the lethality of a .22, there is a tremendous difference depending on whether you are on offense or on defense and whether you contemplate surviving the encounter.
HowardCohodas
Member
.380awsome said:
First, I am not a policeman. Second, from your comment, you hold a different view of the value of a BUG then I do. For me, the main purpose of a BUG is to have a faster alternative to my deep carry primary weapon. I don't fear running out of ammunition. My M&P 45fs carries 10 in the mag and one in the chamber. My spare mag contains 14.
The reason I carry my BUG on my weak side is that in case of a wound that disables my strong side, I have an alternative.
Some consider carrying at all being more paranoid than necessary. I consider carrying a primary and a BUG as being capable in scenarios that are likely in the unlikely occurrence of a SD situation.
Marlin 45 carbine
Member
I've shot enough .380acp, 9mm Makarov, 9mm Para and .38 Sp. into targets tacked onto wooden pallets propped up as target stands to see that the damage done to the oak planking is bad enough that I don't wish to be shot with any of those loadings.
MCgunner
Member
But, thing is, I can carry my 9x19 about as easy, even pocket carry. Why settle for less than +P 9? The P3AT/LCP IS smaller, but I can pocket a 14 ounce P11 just fine, not hard at all to carry.
If you have a problem shooting a 9mm subcompact, the .380 will do the job. I'm not in love with the caliber, but it'll work for close range self defense. I have one I never carry, once in a blue moon.
If you have a problem shooting a 9mm subcompact, the .380 will do the job. I'm not in love with the caliber, but it'll work for close range self defense. I have one I never carry, once in a blue moon.
PX15
Member
JMOfartO:
This should generate some negative incoming, but here's my senior citizen's opinion on the question.
It is my belief that 99% of US will never need a cc firearm of any caliber. I'm not talking leo's and those folks who necessarily have to go in "harm's way" on a regular basis because of job requirements, but just the average citizen..
It is my belief that if you are an average citizen who lives in a reasonably safe neighborhood, who is alert to his/her surroundings and situation, and who does not buy or sell drugs, or go into those parts of town where the buying and selling of drugs is the major job occupation you probably will never have a need for a cc firearm.
The chances of a home invasion, car-jacking, or even stumbling into a robbery at the local "stop 'n rob" (7-11/Convenience Store) is actually pretty slim in most of "civilized America".. You can reduce whatever the percentages might be for actually being involved in a car-jacking or convenience store robbery by keeping your butt at home after dark. You do NOT need bread or milk that bad at 11:00PM, or 2:00AM..
My bet would be that you have decreased your chances of a car-jacking and/or being a participant in a store robbery if you do your shopping, driving in the AM.. Or even reasonably early afternoon..
Sometime in the late afternoons the bad folks wake up, come out and look for easy targets, don't make yourself one.
Now having said all that, I've carried a concealed firearm, legally, since June 1966. So far I have never even had to brandish my firearm, much less fire it in self defense. It is my serious intention to do my level best to keep that record intact until I'm room temperature and toes up, and hoping to find myself in that condition through natural causes.
I carry a Seecamp LWS32 in a rear (wallet style) holster every time I leave the house. I pick up my house/car keys, wallet, and Seecamp. EVERY time..
I have complete faith in that the little sucker will indeed shoot 7 times should I call on it, and I am fully aware that it will not have the knockdown power of the proverbial "flying ash tray" 45cal round. But I do have an idea that unless a threat is wacked out on PCP, therefore crazy as a loon, or whatever other drug is fashionable at the time that 7 little old Speer Gold Dots will dissuade the average "gang banger thug" sufficiently.
My understanding is that IF the threat IS on PCP or some other mind altering drug that will prevent him/her from feeling pain, or recognizing pain, it won't matter the caliber of the firearm I have available..
Shooting someone and coming out of the deal clean as a whistle is "iffy" at best, because chances are excellent your life will change forever after you pull the trigger. So you cannot shoot someone in self defense until the threat is extremely close up and threatening.. IMHO NO caliber round can guarantee you an instant stoppage of a threat from that distance.
My LWS32 has no sights on it.. Know why? Because it was by design a "last ditch, up close and personal, defense weapon. It's not a target pistol, it's a "point and pull" weapon that WILL offer you reasonable protection and I don't care what the "experts" say, most folks don't want to be shot with ANY caliber round and that includes the bad guys too...
Gang bangers and your average thugs are NOT "Seals/UDT's/Green Berets/Mossad" they are not trained to GET shot at, they are not trained at all. That's why you call them "thugs" and that's why they hold their pistols sideways and "generally" have absolutely no training skills telling them to press on with an attack when rounds are incoming.
Mother nature is screaming "haul butt" and that's what they'll do. Even if you run up on one more bold, or more stupid, than the rest, shoot him first. And often.
Think about it... No matter WHAT you have on your mind if you get shot with up to seven rounds of any caliber round what will immediately replace what you had on your mind before you got shot?
You got it.... Get the crap away from the shooter and "oh Lord, am I gonna die"... That's just human nature and even the bad guys react to human nature..
So, leave the PCP crazed druggie out of the equation.. Leave the carjacking/ convenience store robbing gang banger out of the equation, if you live in a nice neighborhood leave the potential home invasion gang out of the equation.. What do you have left?
Just a remote, remote possibility that you will be in the wrong place at the wrong time and might have to take someones life to protect your own, or the lives of your loved ones or other innocents... If that happens the important thing is that you ACTUALLY have a firearm on you. For me that is my puny LWS32 (soon to be replaced by my on-order LWS380).
In my little part of the world, (SE Ga) especially in the summer because of the heat and humidity you will be hard pressed to carry a larger firearm concealed all day long in any comfortable manner... Just hard to do.
I have larger caliber firearms... Several of them. When I go on vacations, or take trips out of my "comfort zone" I TRY to cc one of those, but sometimes even that's not possible.
I CAN cc my LWS32, I have full faith in it's reliability, and I feel confident that in most conditions it will stop an aggressor. I really believe that circumstances limit what you can and cannot carry concealed most of the time, and most of the time those limits preclude the larger caliber firearms the experts recommend for cc.
I can afford a bigger gun.. I just cannot carry a bigger gun.. Therefore I carry a smaller gun.. And yes, I think it adequate. NOT perfect, but adequate.
Just personal opinion, no offense to dissenting opinions, but I'm sure I'll get some anyway.
Best Wishes,
Jesse
This should generate some negative incoming, but here's my senior citizen's opinion on the question.
It is my belief that 99% of US will never need a cc firearm of any caliber. I'm not talking leo's and those folks who necessarily have to go in "harm's way" on a regular basis because of job requirements, but just the average citizen..
It is my belief that if you are an average citizen who lives in a reasonably safe neighborhood, who is alert to his/her surroundings and situation, and who does not buy or sell drugs, or go into those parts of town where the buying and selling of drugs is the major job occupation you probably will never have a need for a cc firearm.
The chances of a home invasion, car-jacking, or even stumbling into a robbery at the local "stop 'n rob" (7-11/Convenience Store) is actually pretty slim in most of "civilized America".. You can reduce whatever the percentages might be for actually being involved in a car-jacking or convenience store robbery by keeping your butt at home after dark. You do NOT need bread or milk that bad at 11:00PM, or 2:00AM..
My bet would be that you have decreased your chances of a car-jacking and/or being a participant in a store robbery if you do your shopping, driving in the AM.. Or even reasonably early afternoon..
Sometime in the late afternoons the bad folks wake up, come out and look for easy targets, don't make yourself one.
Now having said all that, I've carried a concealed firearm, legally, since June 1966. So far I have never even had to brandish my firearm, much less fire it in self defense. It is my serious intention to do my level best to keep that record intact until I'm room temperature and toes up, and hoping to find myself in that condition through natural causes.
I carry a Seecamp LWS32 in a rear (wallet style) holster every time I leave the house. I pick up my house/car keys, wallet, and Seecamp. EVERY time..
I have complete faith in that the little sucker will indeed shoot 7 times should I call on it, and I am fully aware that it will not have the knockdown power of the proverbial "flying ash tray" 45cal round. But I do have an idea that unless a threat is wacked out on PCP, therefore crazy as a loon, or whatever other drug is fashionable at the time that 7 little old Speer Gold Dots will dissuade the average "gang banger thug" sufficiently.
My understanding is that IF the threat IS on PCP or some other mind altering drug that will prevent him/her from feeling pain, or recognizing pain, it won't matter the caliber of the firearm I have available..
Shooting someone and coming out of the deal clean as a whistle is "iffy" at best, because chances are excellent your life will change forever after you pull the trigger. So you cannot shoot someone in self defense until the threat is extremely close up and threatening.. IMHO NO caliber round can guarantee you an instant stoppage of a threat from that distance.
My LWS32 has no sights on it.. Know why? Because it was by design a "last ditch, up close and personal, defense weapon. It's not a target pistol, it's a "point and pull" weapon that WILL offer you reasonable protection and I don't care what the "experts" say, most folks don't want to be shot with ANY caliber round and that includes the bad guys too...
Gang bangers and your average thugs are NOT "Seals/UDT's/Green Berets/Mossad" they are not trained to GET shot at, they are not trained at all. That's why you call them "thugs" and that's why they hold their pistols sideways and "generally" have absolutely no training skills telling them to press on with an attack when rounds are incoming.
Mother nature is screaming "haul butt" and that's what they'll do. Even if you run up on one more bold, or more stupid, than the rest, shoot him first. And often.
Think about it... No matter WHAT you have on your mind if you get shot with up to seven rounds of any caliber round what will immediately replace what you had on your mind before you got shot?
You got it.... Get the crap away from the shooter and "oh Lord, am I gonna die"... That's just human nature and even the bad guys react to human nature..
So, leave the PCP crazed druggie out of the equation.. Leave the carjacking/ convenience store robbing gang banger out of the equation, if you live in a nice neighborhood leave the potential home invasion gang out of the equation.. What do you have left?
Just a remote, remote possibility that you will be in the wrong place at the wrong time and might have to take someones life to protect your own, or the lives of your loved ones or other innocents... If that happens the important thing is that you ACTUALLY have a firearm on you. For me that is my puny LWS32 (soon to be replaced by my on-order LWS380).
In my little part of the world, (SE Ga) especially in the summer because of the heat and humidity you will be hard pressed to carry a larger firearm concealed all day long in any comfortable manner... Just hard to do.
I have larger caliber firearms... Several of them. When I go on vacations, or take trips out of my "comfort zone" I TRY to cc one of those, but sometimes even that's not possible.
I CAN cc my LWS32, I have full faith in it's reliability, and I feel confident that in most conditions it will stop an aggressor. I really believe that circumstances limit what you can and cannot carry concealed most of the time, and most of the time those limits preclude the larger caliber firearms the experts recommend for cc.
I can afford a bigger gun.. I just cannot carry a bigger gun.. Therefore I carry a smaller gun.. And yes, I think it adequate. NOT perfect, but adequate.
Just personal opinion, no offense to dissenting opinions, but I'm sure I'll get some anyway.
Best Wishes,
Jesse
MCgunner
Member
double post
MCgunner
Member
On collection days, I IWB a .357 magnum, usually, and back it up with a .38. Might never happen, but I go in some bad areas and collect from paper machines, a part time job twice a week, but collections is on Tuesday.
Incident the other day, was funny. I'm putting papers in a machine in such an area and changing the change box out, flip two cigarettes off the machine. I don't smoke and it irritates me. I noticed one of 'em was un burnt and hand rolled. Hmmmm, I thought, maybe, oh, well. As I finished with the machine, this ugly old lady with tattoos everywhere comes along, looks around on the machine, bends over and picks up said "cigarette" and walks off. ROFLMAO! Yep, I'm in the right town..... Yes, oh, yes, I carry a gun, and it ain't no pea shooter. Call me paranoid, I don't care. Any other time I have a 9 in my pocket, but I'm more comfy carrying back up on my collections and I've settled on the revolver thing to share reloads. I carry .38+P to reload both guns from Bianchi speed strips. Seems to work well for me.
Might never happen, but I go in some bad areas and collect from paper machines, a part time job twice a week, but collections is on Tuesday.Incident the other day, was funny. I'm putting papers in a machine in such an area and changing the change box out, flip two cigarettes off the machine. I don't smoke and it irritates me. I noticed one of 'em was un burnt and hand rolled. Hmmmm, I thought, maybe, oh, well. As I finished with the machine, this ugly old lady with tattoos everywhere comes along, looks around on the machine, bends over and picks up said "cigarette" and walks off. ROFLMAO! Yep, I'm in the right town.....
Yes, oh, yes, I carry a gun, and it ain't no pea shooter. Call me paranoid, I don't care. Any other time I have a 9 in my pocket, but I'm more comfy carrying back up on my collections and I've settled on the revolver thing to share reloads. I carry .38+P to reload both guns from Bianchi speed strips. Seems to work well for me.Before Glock, many folks thought the 9mm was insufficient for the job. Once the 9 was in serious use nationwide, ammomakers stepped up and gave us much better ammo. Some would say, equal to the .45 in results.
As a Every Day Carry gun, most .380's will be there, likely in your pocket. PX15 has it right - odds are the major confrontations are not likely simply because so many of us will not take the risk to get into the situation in the first place.
Give the big increase in .380 use, I fully expect a lighter, higher speed round to come out with more effectiveness. There's just too much market to ignore with 80K + LCP's, Kahr's, etc., coming on the market yearly.
A 75 gr, 1250 FPS solid hollow point .380, hmmm?
As a Every Day Carry gun, most .380's will be there, likely in your pocket. PX15 has it right - odds are the major confrontations are not likely simply because so many of us will not take the risk to get into the situation in the first place.
Give the big increase in .380 use, I fully expect a lighter, higher speed round to come out with more effectiveness. There's just too much market to ignore with 80K + LCP's, Kahr's, etc., coming on the market yearly.
A 75 gr, 1250 FPS solid hollow point .380, hmmm?
.380awsome
Member
PX15 and Jocko,you are now my hero,lol, you have just proved a point ive been trying to prove ,jocko,you pointed out how much they overdo it,and PX15,you just proved that you dont need a .40 glock to stop someone ,thanks you for informing everyone else ,though they wont listen,i fanially feel as if somone else agrees with me
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