Pocket Pistols and Red Dot Sights - What Groups at What Distance?

[The Glockodile]

Curious about how good one's groups are with the likes of the SIG Sauer P356 (and all those other newer high - capacity pocket 9mms) outfitted with some kind of Red Dot.

Thus far, I've tried out a Glock 19 with an RMRcc, and have been quite happy with its 15 - shot groups at 40 to 50 feet...

I guess my question is - are these pocket guns mechanically accurate enough to benefit from the installation of a Red Dot?

 

[Gordon]

I have a little Walther PPS M1 Classic milled for the RMSc direct attachment with no plate for a 507K Holosun with rings and 2 moa dot.. It can Just barely see the original sights to be usable and it is in 9mm . Being a single stack of very compact size and being Walther makes such good barrels and trigger I was practicing yesterday at 20 yards and keeping it on a standard bowling pin that was suspended from a frame . Looks like 3" groups with two hands leaning barricade style against a post with 124 grain Nato spec ammo . I originally sighted it in at 7, 15 and 25 yards and got 3" supported on a bag at 25 yards. I can hold everything in 3" at 7 yards from a draw as fast as I can shoot it. I just had Simply Rugged make a pocket holster for it. If I use the 7 round smallest factory magazine nothing shows outside the pocket. The 9 round magazine peeks out the top of holster just enough to grab quickly and is a better handhold.

 

[tarosean]

I would think a RDS would take it out of "Pocket" category as that is one giant snag point. Least for me.

A OWB/IWB holster is entirely different.

 

[Archie]

Two comments.
I have to agree with Taroseen, most Red Dot doo-dads make the arrangement too big for pocket or even 'hide out' status. (This could be argued and red-dots and laser sights are getting smaller).
Red Dots and lasers do not in my observation make accuracy (hitting the threat amidships) any better.

Even with my old eyes and presbyopia iron sights still serve for me. I guess that's three: Unneeded expense.

 

[TTv2]

I would think a RDS would take it out of "Pocket" category as that is one giant snag point. Least for me.

A OWB/IWB holster is entirely different.

100%. Putting an optic on an LCP takes what is meant to be as small a pistol as possible and adds unecessary size.

 

[The Glockodile]

I have a little Walther PPS M1 Classic milled for the RMSc...

...I originally sighted it in at 7, 15 and 25 yards and got 3" supported on a bag at 25 yards.

Thanks for actually answering the question

My present favorite is a Glock 19 + RMRcc - as accurate as I can present the dot - but it's a bit too thick to carry for my line of work.

I'm presently looking into something along the lines of a P365XL slide on a P365 frame, as for some bizarre reason I couldn't get any of the slim - line Glocks to work for me.

But if the tinier P365 can land groups similar to what I'm getting with my Glock 19, and its's relatively controllable - then better.

 

[.38 Special]

I am working with a Glock 29 fitted with an RMR. Not quite a "pocket pistol", but still a dinky little thing for a fighting handgun, in my view.

The trigger is a massive impediment to accuracy - and the recoil gets to me pretty quickly as well - so I have not yet figured out exactly how accurate the thing is. So far it appears to be capable of better than one inch per 10 yards, which is my "service pistol" standard, but probably cannot meet my "competition standard" of one inch per 25 yards.

Beyond that, it is my firm belief that barrel length has little to nothing to do with mechanical accuracy, and I see no reason why a subcompact auto can't be as accurate as a full size gun, at least from a mechanical rest. Proving it in your own two hands, though...

 

[The Glockodile]

Beyond that, it is my firm belief that barrel length has little to nothing to do with mechanical accuracy, and I see no reason why a subcompact auto can't be as accurate as a full size gun, at least from a mechanical rest. Proving it in your own two hands, though...

In something with a fixed barrel, yes - but that's a totally different context.

In a mobile barrel such as what we see in the Browning derivatives - slide length (barrel fit being equal) does contribute to smaller groups independently from sight radius, by reducing angular uncertainty.

The longer the slide, the straighter and more consistently the barrel points forward.

The shorter the barrel, the larger the angle at which it has to "tip" to unlock the breech, and typically - the larger the "hole" in the slide relative the muzzle and barrel diameter.



The shorter the slide, the more "play" needs to be incorporated for the action to function.

See the Ruger LCP's barrel, and what it has to resort to to aid centering.

Along the same lines, Heckler & Koch used to employ rubber o - rings on the barrels of some of their pistols to keep them centered.

Hope the crude illustration above makes sense.

 

[Buzznrose]

I had a Sig P365X with a dot. I never measured the groups but it at 12 yards my offhand group would be about golf ball size for 10 shots, which is bigger than my G43X.

But it really wasn’t an easy pocket carry like my LCP Max.