Police Beating in New Orleans Caught on Tape #2 Constructive Criticism ONLY

[Grey54956]

I watched that tape a few times. Here's what I didn't see:

1.) 64 year old suspect actively fighting with cops before they throw him to the ground. He looks a little bewildered, but not out of control.

2.) 64 year old suspect thrashing about wildly - rolling about with a pile of cops piling on while he clutches at the side of his head in agony after having it slammed into the wall, maybe, but thrashing about, no.

3.) 64 year old punching cops left and right. Nope not in the tape.

Here's what I did see:

1.) Mounted officer trying to block camera. While this could be on accident, there does seem to be some evidence by how the horse moves that this is on purpose.

2.) A pile of LEOs surrounding and shouting at a bewildered 64 year old, who is not throwing punches, but does seem to be somewhat under control.

3.) Said pile of LEOs shoving 64 year old against brick wall and reportedly punching him in the back of the head. Pretty hard to get hand-cuffs on someone when YOU ARE PUNCHING THEM REPEATEDLY IN THE BACK OF THE HEAD!

4.) Said pile of LEOs throwing 64 year old man to ground and punching him more. He appears to be holding the side of his head in pain. Of course, the LEOs can't get hand-cuffs on him. They can't get his hands behind him to do so because THEY HAVE HIM PINNED ON THE GROUND, ON HIS BACK! HARD TO HANDCUFF SOMEONE BEHIND THE BACK WHEN YOU'VE GOT HIM BACK DOWN TO THE GROUND AND 3 GUYS ARE SITTING ON TOP OF HIM!

5.) A LEO attacking the press because he just got caught with his pants down and he knows his @$$ is grass.

Seriously, if a pile of guys starts beating the hell out of you, are you going to be in a state of mind to calmly obey orders? I don't think so. There is a reason the 64 year old resists arrest - he is getting beaten to a pulp. Survival instinct demands that you cover yourself up and try to prevent as much damage as possible, not roll on your stomach and surrender.

The cops seem completely out of control. And from the comments coming from the police forums, we have much to fear from the thin blue line.

 

[rde]

So the moderator wants a thread that does not include any cop bashing...yet the thread is about...cop bashing. Hmmm...

 

[Biker]

What "cop bashing"? Some fair observations were made. If telling the truth is "cop bashing", I guess that by your definition, the truth shouldn't be told? Instead of whining about Grey54956's observations, why don't you refute them?
Good God...
Biker

 

[beerslurpy]

When good cops circle the wagons around obvious police brutality, what are we supposed to think? There are cops on here that make themselves very inviting targets for "bashing" (or criticism as it is known elsewhere).

That being said, it looks like the police in NOLA are doing the right thing by forcing them to stand trial for what they apparently did. We can all speculate about what the outcome would have been minus camera, but fortunately that didnt happen in this case.

Upon reflection I think the media has done more good than harm in NOLA. It is sort of like keeping the light on in the kitchen so the cockroaches dont run rampant. I loved the looting Wal-Mart videotape (where the guy catches the two women cops) and they seem to be catching a lot of misbehaving people on camera (this, the gun grabbing, etc), which is always good (for ratings and for society as well). Its a shame that bad people no longer seem to worry about an all-seeing, vengeful diety, but nosy reporters will have to do for now.

 

[Amusetec]

beerslurpy-
Why do you think the cop was so pissed at the reporter

 

[M-Rex]

Not even going into the "druken 64 year old" (who, if his lawyer is telling the truth, wasn't even drunk and has been "dry" for years now). How do you justify hitting the new reporter. Think if average Joe Blow were to push a reporter into the car and hit him in the ribs. That Joe Blow guy wouldn't be sitting in jail right now on aggrevated assault?

Where's that LE right now?

The officers in question are on administrative leave pending the investigation. I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make.

 

[Grey54956]

I happen to have a few friends who are cops, and I hope that htey would never behave like the hooligans in the video. But I did have a chance to reflect on all of this today.

I am worried about the militarization of our police forces. If you look in any police oriented magazine, the gear being advertized is modeled after military gear. Is it because it is tactical, or is it because it is tapping into a violence prone, super-cop mentality.

I am worried that the police have begun to see themselves as above the law. Reading the comments from the police forum, it seems that the consensus was "hey, if he didn't follow orders from the guys in charge, he deserved it." This looks terrible on LEOs everywhere. When someone starts yelling at you, you might be confused or disoriented. If panic sets in, you may not be in the state of mind where you can obey orders. Then there is the problem that some orders seem to be arbitrarily given out. Are the police really in charge? Who made them so? Why? Are they always right? Why should they be obeyed without question? So many questions.

Then there's the whole officer safety issue. Officer safety is so much of a concern that it is now perfectly justifiable to shoot just about anybody the second the LEO feels he may be in danger. Rules of engagement go right out the window.

And maybe we should all be concerned. Afterall, should we lose our fight against those who oppose the 2A, then the cops will be coming to our door. When they ask you to scrap your firearms and you say that you don't have any, are they going to punch you in the back of the head four times, shoot your wife because they think she is going for a gun, or maybe burn down your house with gas grenades while serving a no-knock warrant?

 

[M-Rex]

Yea Right they are!
I fell threatened and I just put my hand on my gun I go to jail. Cop feels threatned and he shots the guy who has no gun and he is held up as a hero. ok where is the higher standard

Amusetec, you don't know what you are talking about. Post a fact that can be discussed, not baseless conjecture.

 

[rde]

...cops bashing a 64 year old man. Cops bashing media recording cops bashing 64 year old man. I'm gonna have to say their is some cop bashing going on.

 

[odysseus]

I am worried about the militarization of our police forces.

You and a lot of people. This is an aside to this thread, but it has a lot of merit. The lines between civil law enforcement, national guard, and the US armed forces is getting more and more blurred. Culturally I fear we are beginning to be too accepting of one single authority controlling all of this. It may happen for reasons to save, but once constructed and strengthened it can be abused - as history always repeats. It was never meant to be this way, NOR should it ever be this way.

 

[M-Rex]

Then there's the whole officer safety issue. Officer safety is so much of a concern that it is now perfectly justifiable to shoot just about anybody the second the LEO feels he may be in danger. Rules of engagement go right out the window.

Are you out of your mind? If someone takes an agressive stance with an officer and threatens him harm, or threatens the harm of a bystander/victim, the officer better damn well do something other than stand there and engage in verbal masturbation with the subject.

Rules of engagement? It's called 'don't get killed'. There are no gentleman's rules when the balloon goes up. That's not to say there aren't any requirements that govern the amount of force that can be used. The police generally are trained to use 'that amount of force necessary to effect an arrest', and not more. Maybe the N.O. officers crossed that line. Maybe they didn't. If they did, they'll be disciplined. Simple as that.

There is no requirement that force be met with equal force. The point is to win, not trade blows. :banghead:

 

[M-Rex]

When good cops circle the wagons around obvious police brutality, what are we supposed to think? There are cops on here that make themselves very inviting targets for "bashing" (or criticism as it is known elsewhere).

Like who, for instance?

 

[Joejojoba111]

If you read a book titled:

"War is a force that gives us meaning.

by Hedges, Chris.
Anchor ; PublicAffairs, c2002. "

Your may notice an abundance of similarities between every aspect of how he describes war, and government-police-citizen relations. Every single aspect, it is quite amazing. I wondered if I was mis-interpreting, so I tried several other situations, comparing them to the general points he makes, and they didn't match perfectly. My opinion is that police are moving towards declaring war on the populace.

BTW, did that 'stressed' officer forget to tell the AP journalist that he had a taxpayer-funded vacation to Vegas? Funny that.


Seriously, though, pay attention to what the police say. The actual 'officers on the beat' are giving you unprecedented insight. Don't pass it up. It may be a rare occasion to see the truth told so willingly, without the window-dressing that a skilled P.R. department can flourish.

And remember, there are MANY good men and women in their ranks. MANY! But the institutions have an institutional bias, a pervasive notion which is propogated and internally promulgated through the culture bestowed on their members.

IMO the 'good' police, IE the one's I like, are the ones that resemble humans, in all their forms. Happy, tired, reasonable, irritated, curious, courteous, abrupt, polite - you get the idea. Human, not perfect. The 'bad' police, I'm sorry to admit, seem almost un-human. Not worse than humans, just, apart, different, a foreign life-form. There was a movie with Pacino called 'Devil's Advocate', and a jogger is beaten by two homeless men in the park. As they beat him they seem like monsters as well as men, and that is exactly what I saw in the video clip on the news.

 

[Carlos]

What's funny is the poor man was on Bourbon Street in the party capitol of the country. Didn't these officers have anything better to do?? A 64 year old man was a real threat to those four thugs? He walks slow. They misinterpreted drunkeness and beat him for it.

Officer Smith should be out immediately. I don't care how much stress he was under the last six weeks. Today, in my opinion, he committed an offense that should result in immediate termination, no benefits. He should then be zealously prosecuted for assault.

The Puncher should also be out of a job. Punching a man when he's down is as low as it gets. He should be tried, convicted of First Degree assault and jailed.

M-Rex, you make good points, but you can't defend those scum. The officer on the horse should be disciplined as well as the non-punchers.

And LEO's? - you all know that New Orlean has an infamous police department.

New Orleans is going to have to pay out money it plain doesn't have right now, or in the near future. These so-called officers were plain wrong in the way they handled this. Now, we're all going to pay for it.

These are the facts and consequences as I see em, and please don't pull the "this is cop bashing" thing. Nonsense.

 

[Amusetec]

Quote:
Yea Right they are!
I fell threatened and I just put my hand on my gun I go to jail. Cop feels threatned and he shots the guy who has no gun and he is held up as a hero. ok where is the higher standard

Amusetec, you don't know what you are talking about. Post a fact that can be discussed, not baseless conjecture.

M-Rex-Ok I will Go real slow so you can understand :banghead:
1 If I flash my gun I can get arrested for it. FACT
2. there have been a few LEO that have shot unarmed people and have had noting happen to them.
Do you understand now what I am talking about
I doubt it becuse the other post has FACT IN IT. and Is not baseless conjecture lots of cases just here in texas about unarmed shots by LEOs.
Now Tell me what is not fact and what is baseles conjecture. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

 

[M-Rex]

Alrighty...now you are engaging in ad hominim attack.

1. Of course you can, given specific circumstances. But, that's not what you said in your post above.

I fell threatened and I just put my hand on my gun I go to jail.

2. Broad, ambiguous generality. Try again.

All you are posting is conjecture. What I understand is that you don't know what you are talking about. You are ignorant of the topic being discussed and you are simply jumping on the 'yeah, what he said' bandwagon.

 

[M-Rex]

Officer Smith should be out immediately. I don't care how much stress he was under the last six weeks. Today, in my opinion, he committed an offense that should result in immediate termination, no benefits. He should then be zealously prosecuted for assault.

The Puncher should also be out of a job. Punching a man when he's down is as low as it gets. He should be tried, convicted of First Degree assault and jailed.

M-Rex, you make good points, but you can't defend those scum. The officer on the horse should be disciplined as well as the non-punchers.

Carlos,

I concur. I wouldn't think of defending an officer who is abusing the power of his/her authority with intent. The officer who accosted the AP reporter should be disciplined to the fullest extent. The other two should have their day in court. If they are found in the wrong, they should be disciplined. However, neither I, nor anyone on this forum has the right to condemn the officers in question based on a few seconds of edited video. I'm not saying they were justified in doing what appears in the video; only that it is ridiculous to play judge, jury, and executioner based on a 15 second 'video soundbite'.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Reports I saw earlier this evening indicate that the victim suffered broken bones in his face. It's really difficult to conceive of any circumstances requiring THAT much force to be used by MULTIPLE officers in order to subdue ONE 64-year old man who was allegedly drunk.

 

[ziadel]

So the moderator wants a thread that does not include any cop bashing...yet the thread is about...cop bashing. Hmmm...

calling a duck a duck is not duck bashing.

 

[MechAg94]

Man, there sure are a lot of people out there who automatically assume the worst about LEO's.

Here is what I saw: (Warning: I did not assume evil intent.)

1. A video of a scene in progress starts with the camera view obscured by a horse. Not sure if the camera guy is lazy or if the horse is intentionally blocking the view. The video starts that way and I can't tell.

2. I see one cop throw several punches at the guy while they are struggling with him against the wall. Can't see it real well, but this certainly doesn't stop the old guy from struggling. I can only see two LEO's at that point. Not sure what happened prior to the punches.

3. That is one big, healthy looking 64 year old. He is certainly not weak and frail and is definitely struggling for all he is worth with the four LEO's once they have him on the ground.

4. When the four LEO's have him on the ground, it looks like they are trying to position him to apply handcuffs, but the frail and weak old man is wrestling with them to prevent that. He is moderately successful. I don't see anyone strike him while on the ground.

5. I see one LEO shove a reporter and get in his face. I didn't see him hit the reporter, just poke at him a little while yelling at him. Looks like he lost his temper and needs some leave to calm down. Probably some anger management or whatever is required for some harrassment of a reporter.

I didn't see anything on that video that would make me want to go lynch these LEO's as some on this thread and others would seem to want to do. I don't really think they did anything wrong in trying to subdue a guy who was actively resisting arrest. I would like to get more details of what happened before the tape started before I would even consider evil intent or bad behavior on the part of the LEO's. As someone previously said, they could have used batons, guns, or other means and hurt the guy a lot worse.

My 2 Cents: If you don't like getting arrested or want to argue, the street is not the place to do it. If you resist arrest, you are just asking for an a$$ whipping whether you think it is right or legal or not.

 

[Pietro Beretta]

This post is almost getting to the point where the orignal post was......

You state that if the old man hadn't broken the law, "he wouldn't have been in that situation" intimating that he "may have deserved everything he got, including the punches". It appears that the cops broke the law. Would they deserve to be held and punched? It appears so, according to your logic. Or are they above the law?
Biker

Going back to my first post...:

If the man was drunk in public, that is infact breaking the law. If he resisted getting arrested thats again breaking the law.

We dont see the begining of the tape, the camera is turned on half way through the arrest. All we see is an african american man pinned to the wall, 1 second later he his hit in the head by an officer several times, they then get him to the ground to make the arrest.

If hitting the man in the head after he was pinned to the wall was "Necessary force" then so be it, the man was breaking the law. (However I dont think that was necessary from what I can see, they already had him pinned to the wall)


The thing that is 100% illegal, is when one of the officers goes up to a member of the AP and grabs him, and verbally abuses the Assoicated Press guy. The Leo saying "ive been here for 6 weeks trying to keep you guys alive, go home" (or something to that effect)

 

[F4GIB]

Previously posted: "Why do you think the cop was so pissed at the reporter."

Videotape is taking all the sport out of policework.

 

[ziadel]

This is not so much about the suspect getting beat up, this is about the AP Reporter being assaulted. That is what is totally abhorrent and completely unacceptable and thanks to the tape, not a matter of speculation.

 

[MechAg94]

By assault I assume you mean shoved and yelled at. I didn't see anything more than that. Not something to hang the LEO over.
By the way, was that out of the blue or was the guy getting in too close? I couldn't tell for sure.

 

[Jon Coppenbarger]

Every officer no matter if they were federal agents or uniformed police should be FIRED at least if they did not try to stop a crime like this. Charge every last one of them if they were there if the facts come out to be true.
They are required to stop a crime and just like King they did SQUAT!
They all should be on at least paid leave for not arresting the guy that assulted the AP camera crew.
IF it turns out to be true and they actually filed false charges like being drunk I hope they rot in prison for beating up a 64 year old retired school teacher for asking a question.
Real brave of them is it not.

The only recourse folks have here is to hope to have this thread locked also.
But remember your tactics on threads like this is to circle the wagons untill everyone else gives up and moves on to something else or tag team the one or two that hang on. Just like the tape it is sick.