Police Chief Qual Scores Released

[Craig_AR]

In an interesting step as part of an administrative investigation, the firearms qualification records for a police chief have been released to the public.
On new year's eve the Little Rock Chief of Police was on patrol as part of an all hands on deck effort with senior officers on the street. Late night he came across an active shooter at a gas station, apparently a road rage situation. As the shooter shot at her victim, the chief took one shot at the shooter. She hit the victim; he missed the shooter, but she was taken into custody.
As part of the routine officer involved shooting process. there are two ongoing investigations, one criminal (for possible violations of law) and the other administrative (for compliance with department regulations and policies).
Today's news story has information on the chief's recurring qualification sores, including two standard 50 round events in 2021 (82% with a Glock 43X and 92% with a Glock 22), as well as a 2020 qualification in "altered light conditions," 30 rounds each from a 22 and a 43.
Not mentioned in the linked story, but from earlier reports, it appears the chief may have been in violation of department policy by failing to activate his body camera for the incident.

 

[Jim Watson]

Here is what Arkansas has to say about police qualifications
https://www.dps.arkansas.gov/wp-con...nimum-Standards-for-Handgun-Qualification.pdf

The article really dwells on the misses resulting in an 82 score.
I figure most of them were at 15 yards, that is pretty fair range for a small frame Glock. I know I can only shoot in the mid 240s out of 250 on the GSSF Pocket Indoor CoF, 5-15 yards.

 

[Speedo66]

He passed the qualification with almost a minimum score, but still passing.

The fact that he missed is not unusual in situations like that. The arrest was made, no one else was injured by his errant bullet,

The question is, why is the paper making such a big deal out of it?

 

[Riomouse911]

“Much ado about nothing”

William Shakespeare

Stay safe.

 

[Blue Jays]

No innocents were struck by police gunfire and criminal was promptly arrested. Good outcome in my book.

 

[Craig_AR]

The question is, why is the paper making such a big deal out of it?

This chief has been controversial since hired three years ago. Lots of recent history including being sued by three direct report subordinate officers. He was hired in the middle of an officer involved shooting aftermath.

 

[Robert]

Our test is pass/fail. All rounds must be inside the target. If you fail the first time you get a reshoot. If you fail twice you get an hour retraining with a firearms instructor. If you fail three time you have to undergo a full day of retraining, your chain of command is notified and you have to pass the test. If you fail that fourth test you can be terminated.

 

[HighRoadRover]

I read about this police chief and I think I detected some schadenfreude by the Press in their reporting on his qualification scores, and indeed in how he looked bad in the shooting incident on New Year's Eve.

He is apparently very unpopular among some people in his own department. An article in The Intercept lays a lot of that out -- I cannot tell, given the parlous state of journalism today, whether he is a reformer who is being attacked by reactionaries, or if he is a bully who is taking advantage of being the Chief of Police to advance his own agenda.

The article does provide some context, but it is not the last word on what the real story is. Nonetheless, here is the background article in the Intercept, called "Big Trouble in Little Rock": https://theintercept.com/2021/12/18/little-rock-police-chief-keith-humphrey/

(Note: this article is not in a format where I can lift the whole thing into this post. You have to go read it in its native format by clicking on the link.)

 

[herrwalther]

The question is, why is the paper making such a big deal out of it?

This was my question as well. Glad I am not the only one not seeing it.

This is the Alabama POST standard. Everyone from reserve, non academy police officers, armed security guards, all the way to Sheriffs have to qualify to this standard. And it is laughably easy to do so. Every round "in the white" counts for 2 points. Last time I passed I did so with a DA service revolver that wasn't even mine.

https://www.una.edu/police/docs/forms/handgun.pdf

 

[Jim Watson]

I can do the shooting, I don't think I can make it 10 yards and shoot in the time allowed.
Here are some other LE qualification courses.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/...YQLa8LnfJF_jB7jqUc/mobilebasic#h.e22j86eok35v

 

[JeffG]

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, and comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat."

Theodore Roosevelt.

 

[.38 Special]

I am pretty much on the side of the police - and have no quibble with the fellow in the story - but will say that most of the cops I've seen on the range (and that's in the dozens if not hundreds) were not gun people, and their scores showed it.

I'm honestly not sure if "square range" accuracy has much to do with real-world gunfights, but I guess if I ever get into a gunfight I'd rather it be against someone who doesn't shoot very well - and I guess if I ever held a job which included a significant risk of gunfighting, I'd want to be a better-than-average gunman.

 

[JeffG]

I am pretty much on the side of the police - and have no quibble with the fellow in the story - but will say that most of the cops I've seen on the range (and that's in the dozens if not hundreds) were not gun people, and their scores showed it.

I'm honestly not sure if "square range" accuracy has much to do with real-world gunfights, but I guess if I ever get into a gunfight I'd rather it be against someone who doesn't shoot very well - and I guess if I ever held a job which included a significant risk of gunfighting, I'd want to be a better-than-average gunman.

I was a police firearms training officer fo 30+ years. Increasingly, officers had never fired a gun, and had no guns at home. Gunfighting was well beyond their ability, and they did not care.

 

[Kingcreek]

I know quite a few of the local and county LEOs. They seem to fall into 2 categories.
Seriously proficient shooters or just plain gun carriers by job description. One officer told me he hated guns, hated carrying one, and couldn’t wait to retire and get rid of the only one he owned.
The shooters are or were all good guys I would want responding to any situation I might be involved in.

 

[herrwalther]

I was a police firearms training officer fo 30+ years. Increasingly, officers had never fired a gun, and had no guns at home. Gunfighting was well beyond their ability, and they did not care.

I noticed the same in both police and military. The officers and soldiers who took their qualification seriously usually sought out additional training in firearms. Which helped qualification. Plenty are happy to pass and be done.

 

[Old Dog]

I was a police firearms training officer fo 30+ years. Increasingly, officers had never fired a gun, and had no guns at home. Gunfighting was well beyond their ability, and they did not care.

Same exact thing I've seen. Another reason I'm looking forward to retiring; I used to love being a firearms instructor, but I came to dread new academy classes.

The shooters are or were all good guys I would want responding to any situation I might be involved in.

The odds are now that those won't be they guys (or gals) you get...

As far as the police chief? It's all politics at that level. He may have responded as a street cop (and those who think the missed shot is a big deal certainly have never fired a round in a deadly force situation) but he'll be treated as a political appointee. His qual scores seem no better or worse than the average cop on the street.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

Meh, LEO quals are generally pretty underwhelming.

I say make 'em run a USPA/IDPA stage with two of the targets being 20-25yds, a couple of required heads shots, at least one reload and of course a required score within a certain time.

 

[Jim Watson]

M. Ayoob wrote of a department that shot the original 90 shot IDPA Classifier for qualification. I think a Sharpshooter score required to qualify.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

M. Ayoob wrote of a department that shot the original 90 shot IDPA Classifier for qualification. I think a Sharpshooter score required to qualify.

Thats interesting.

I would prefer more movement required though. An actual stage with more cover and movement would be better.

If you really wanted to up the ante you could add pop ups/swingers/Texas stars.

 

[Jim Watson]

That is an IDPA Scenario or USPSA Field Course.
How are you going to define pass-fail qualification?
Hire a Master class shooter to run it and require your employees shoot half as well?
(I am USPSA C class and am doing well to exceed 50% on Classifiers. I am IDPA Expert but have only shot Expert on the long Classifier once, otherwise match promotions, meaning I won Sharpshooter in that Division.).

 

[JeffG]

Meh, LEO quals are generally pretty underwhelming.

I say make 'em run a USPA/IDPA stage with two of the targets being 20-25yds, a couple of required heads shots, at least one reload and of course a required score within a certain time.

Couldn't agree more. They need to learn how to run 'n gun and see what the pistol is capable of.

 

[Old Dog]

Meh, LEO quals are generally pretty underwhelming.

I say make 'em run a USPA/IDPA stage with two of the targets being 20-25yds, a couple of required heads shots, at least one reload and of course a required score within a certain time.

Well, yeah, that'd be fun for a few in every department. But some of y'all seem to believe that cops are supposed to love guns and shooting. Just like there are guys working construction or as carpenters who may not be particularly good with certain tools, or master chefs that can't chop veggies like the average tableside cook at your local Benihana, there's mostly officers and deputies who actually don't look forward to in-service weapons training and qualification. I know, hard to believe, right?

And the higher up in rank ya go, well, you already know...

 

[waterhouse]

We don’t keep score for specifically this reason. You can FOIA and see that I’ve passed every qual, but there is no internal document showing that I’ve had a perfect score on each qual (which on our qual isn’t difficult.) Just a Pass/Fail.

 

[JohnKSa]

When I took my first TX concealed carry course, the instructor, who was LE, made a point of only recording pass/fail and gave the same rationale.

 

[CDW4ME]

Being LE does not imply gun enthusiast - I say this from a couple years personal experience.