Police harassment over open carry in VT

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I suppose they could stop you if they had reason to believe your gun is stolen. Even there, it's have to be something like "Report of a stolen Mateba Auto-Revolver, item is gold-plated with "BAD MOTHER#$)@#" spelled out in rubies along the backstrap." Just having a Glock 17 wouldn't be enough, I don't think.
 
AntiqueCollector, I would strongly recommend that you have a nice little notebook on hand and that you begin -right now- with keeping a record of any police interactions that you had/have. Do not write down any opinions or attitudes, just a recording of the facts of each encounter such as date/time/and what was said by whom. (Basically the old reporter's who,what,where,when, why).

I applaud you for standing on your principles and if a pattern of harassment starts you'll have a much stronger case with all of the history recorded and available.
 
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I was only opining on the ‘stop’ portion of a Terry stop and frisk. The frisk would be somewhat silly since your firearm is plainly visible. The police may only frisk you if they suspect you’re armed and presently dangerous. Anyway, if the officer is frisking you for your openly carried firearm, it should clue you that he’s just trying to intimidate you.
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Further, confiscating the firearm, even temporarily, to "check if it's stolen," is not permissible unless the officer can articulate that he knows a weapon matching that description was stolen in the jurisdiction and that he suspects this is it. The simple fact that you are engaging in the completely legal action of carrying a firearm does not, of itself, provide any cause for "reasonable suspicion" of criminal activity (absent other, specifically articulable facts).
 
My point was, and is, that we all (not you personally, you collectively) need to make an effort to use proper English when we write our letters. I am not saying you need to wax eloquent and create a six page Thoreau like epistle. We just need to try a little. I wasn’t necessarily picking on you personally but your post had a number of the most common errors. Lighten up; it’s not all about you.

Your = something that belongs to you
You’re = you + are
There = someplace that’s not here
Their = something that belongs to them
They’re = they + are
Than = a comparison
Then = not now or in the future
We’re = we + are
Were = past tense

Dear Senator X,
I understand your opposed to Senate Bill SB12345. Rather then scrap the entire bill, it might be better to express you’re opinion on the Senate Floor to change some of the less desirable parts. Their are important protections for firearms owners and there families….
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Further, confiscating the firearm, even temporarily, to "check if it's stolen," is not permissible unless the officer can articulate that he knows a weapon matching that description was stolen in the jurisdiction and that he suspects this is it. The simple fact that you are engaging in the completely legal action of carrying a firearm does not, of itself, provide any cause for "reasonable suspicion" of criminal activity (absent other, specifically articulable facts).
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Exactly!
 
Okay for what little it'll likely accomplish, but to have a better paper trail IMHO, I'm sending out a letter of complaint on the incident to the chief. Viewable at the link on my first post ( http://arctichomesteader.blogspot.com/ ) , my full name and address was removed from it, but the chief of police's name is a matter of public record...I will include copies of State v. Rosenthal (1903), the statutes prohibiting municpalities from restricting the carrying of firearms, part of the VT Constitution, and for good measure, a brief summary from the FBI's webpage on "deprivation of rights under color of law", etc. I had mixed thoughts on posting it like that, but finally decided, it may be good to have even more records of this to point at should I need to...
 
I was stopped once and frisked several times. I was told I didn't slow down enough when I passed the officer with his lights on even though I slowed down twenty miles per hour. He said he felt I could have slowed down some more. I was carrying and so the whole thing went south when he asked and I said yes to having weapons in the vehicle. I had been handcuffed and in the back of the patrol car for over an hour and when they brought me back out, they frisked me again before removing the handcuffs. I figure they were either gay or thought I might have manufactured a weapon while sitting in the back of the patrol car in cuffs.
 
Everyone in Vermont who wishes this kind of thing to stop needs to start open carrying at every opportunity. Use it or lose it.
 
Quote:

Everyone in Vermont who wishes this kind of thing to stop needs to start open carrying at every opportunity. Use it or lose it.

~~~~~

I agree with this comment. Thank you!

Catherine
 
When an officer says "Is it worth it?" to you, regarding a lawsuit, my first reaction is to say "Yes, and numerous cases have resulted in severe consequences to the officers responsible. "

He can back his happy butt up with statements like that. I've got nothing but time when it comes to taking stuff like this to court. You may not, but it is time spent fighting the good fight.
 
"it may be good to have even more records of this to point at should I need to..."

There is no such thing as too much paper trail in such a situation, only too little. Sounds like you done good. Going a tad OT, I get a laugh out of the site opencarry listing MA in the green as "licensed open carry state." That's funny! :rolleyes:
 
Next time try to have a friend along as a witness to this harassment. Then follow thru on the lawsuit. Some cops just don't get it. And tell him that you might just sue him personally if the laws in your state allow it. Power crazed, that's all.
 
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Wow. I still say file an AG complaint. Plus it looks like its time to find a gun friendly lawyer and file suit.
 
I'm going to be sending copies of the two letters of complaint and a cover letter explaining the situation to all the members of the board of aldermen (city council) and mayor, and I'm showing up and will do my best to get some words in at the next meeting. Depending on the answers from the chief and the board members, I'm sending in details to the attorney general, and the governor also (the governor is far more pro-gun than the AG here so I figure it's worth doing, as the governor is responsible for "executing" the laws and some of those laws include pre-emption laws forbidding cities from doing some things this city is up to), along with details on a city ordinance banning guns in city parks, as said ordinance is illegal due to pre-emption laws. Oh, and I'll send a complaint in to the VT chapter of the ACLU, and before anyone questions that, they helped in the case around 1998 or so against this same city over a ban on carry, and there are more than firearms issues here too particularly with today's run in. I am keeping the name and number of a good local attorney with me at all times now. He's had experience in the past with cases against the city, and also the state, infringing on rights, so he'll be a good choice.

I may have a person I know well lined up to be a witness this weekend to go on a walk with me depending on the weather (lots of rain lately keep in mind so it hasn't been walking weather a lot lately).
 
Wow, that's insane what happened to you. Kudos for taking the time to fight this. I hope you get somewhere on this and the officers get disciplined.
 
Antique Colllector, When I said research Homesteading Alaska I was referring to the fact that "Homesteading"in the traditional sense doesn't exist anymore. But you knew that.

Once again I will say research Homesteading in Alaska. This time I mean plan to get the he-- out.

But I admire you courage to fight the good fight.
 
i'd carry two guns next time. Or lose the revolver and get an AR-15 pistol. :evil:
 
Ok, I couldn’t read the blog at work, it doesn’t get through the .mil firewall. All I have to say is, “WOW!” Are you posting this on the opencarry.org forums? I’ll go look either way. The stop was illegal. You have certainly tried to be friendly and cooperative, but that time is passed. The next officer that stops you ask:
Are you detaining me?
For suspicion of what crime are you detaining me?
Go now, right now if possible, to Best Buy or similar, and get a voice recorder. Trust me, cops that are bullies will lie to their sergeants when they get called to the carpet and you want some record of the encounter. If you can find someone to video tape it do so. The officer is violating your privacy rights.
 
i'd carry two guns next time. Or lose the revolver and get an AR-15 pistol.
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I did for a while consider carrying one of my 4 ft long Turkish mausers (maybe even with a bayonet attached) but decided against it, for now...

Most of my guns are fairly old as that's my main interest...
 
Yup, hence the username, although my collection of old and antique guns is but one small part of a large collection of other antique items--tools, lamps, etc., so that's how I chose my username.;)
 
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