Police Trainee Accidentally Killed By Instructor

[Aguila Blanca]

I'm in line behind K-Romulus. If ammo wasn't allowed in the building, obviously the instructor screwed the pooch big time by even having ammo in the classroom, let alone in a loaded handgun. But ... the entire building was supposed to be weapon-free, so not only should the instructor not have had a live weapon, the students should not have had real weapons. It would appear that this instructor was breaking the rule in more than one way, and it leaves me wondering if his superiors knew that he was allowing real guns in the building despite the prohibition.

 

[Lightsped]

I graduated from this academy and was taught many hours of classroom courses by Mr. Jackson.

When I was at the academy a few years back, there were several days we brought our guns in and we did a step by step process of cleaning and clearing the gun. It is impossible to do this with the plastic red guns as they are just one piece hunks of plastic with no moving parts.

So we definately were allowed to bring our actual guns in, but never any ammo.

What I was told by a woman who works with me is that Mr. Jackson had removed the magazine and left it in his desk before entering the gym (he forgot to clear the chamber). After the accidental discharge, Mr. Jackson realized what he had done, returned to his desk/office and had reinserted the magazine into his gun as if he was about to take his own life. Fellow teachers/students were able to stop him before he proceeded. Mr. Jackson was removed from the facility in a straight jacket.

That is all I know, and this is 3rd party info, but I feel it is credible. This is all very unfortunate as Mr. Jackson always seemed to put on the "tough cop" image in front of the class, but he seemed to genuinely care about our progress and learning in the academy.

 

[shooting time]

IMHO if you pick up a gun you should ALWAYS check the chamber .That should be the first thing you do!

 

[Janitor]

IMHO if you pick up a gun you should ALWAYS check the chamber .That should be the first thing you do!

IMHO - Jackson knows that better than you or I. He screwed up. Unfortunately, he screwed up in multiple ways and a family is without their daughter today. *



* Jackson is horribly aware of this too.

 

[CAS700850]

And, isn't that really the point. This man made a tragic mistake. Because of his mistake, a person is dead. While I have tremendous feelings of sympathy and compassion for the young lady and her family, I also have feelings of sympathy and compassion for the instructor. His actions were not intentional, they were negligent. And, while he may be criminally prosecuted and sued, living with the consequences of his actions will likely be harder than the other aspects for him. They would be for me.

 

[Shootcraps]

It's a reminder that we can never let our guard down. Every time I pick up one of my autos I check the chamber.

It's a tragedy for both families.

 

[c_yeager]

Rule # 1 All guns are always loaded.
Rule # 2 Never let the muzzle cover anything that you are not willing to destroy.
Rule # 3 Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
Rule # 4 Be sure of your target and what is behind it.

Thats all it takes to keep this from happening to you. In fact, this incident required the shooter to ignore not one, but two of these rules. My 12 year old cousin can recite them on demand in any order that you choose (he had to do this before he got to touch his BB gun), can you?

 

[Janitor]

Rule # 1 All guns are always loaded.
Rule # 2 Never let the muzzle cover anything that you are not willing to destroy.
Rule # 3 Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
Rule # 4 Be sure of your target and what is behind it.

At the end of the day, this really is all it boils down to isn't it? Pay attention (100% of the time) and nobody gets hurt. At least ... nobody that doesn't deserve to. More than half of these rules had to be broken for this accident to turn out the way it did.

 

[TJ]

I've been to classes in this academy and the main Georgia Public Service Training Center (GPSTC) in Forsyth, GA. It seems the wonderful media or some official has been working overtime on this getting this wrong.
The spokesman for GPSTC is quoted as saying that NO firearms or ammunition are allowed anywhere in their buildings. Yet I've taken firearms classes in 'their buildings' and everyone had their firearms in 'their buildings.'
They have people in their main building carrying loaded duty weapons. They claim these people are on duty. And these people are inside a fenced and guarded compound.
Sounds to me like Forsyth is trying to take ONE GIANT STEP away from the Austell academy.
The Austell academy is neither fenced or guarded. I believe the instructors there, that are sworn officers, do carry firearms. THEY ARE COPS, they should carry firearms while on duty!!
I've never had anything but good experiences in Austell and the instructors are some of the best you'll find.
I've been in classes with the instructor that was involved. He is one of the, if not the, most conscientious people in the law enforcement field. He would even make fun of himself for being so 'anal' about everything, especially safety.
These 'sources' that say that their are no weapons allowed in any classes have probably never been in a classroom, and that only 'red guns' are used. How do you teach someone how to lock the slide to the rear, or reload a red gun? Every firearms school that I've attended has always had classroom training, involving live firearms.
BUT, the ammunition is the main issue here. You never have live ammo in a classroom type invironment.
How did the round get there? I'm betting that no one on this site knows the answer. So I will not pass judgement until all the facts are out.
I do know this instructor. He is a good man and an excellent instructor.
We cannot do anything for the student. GOD rest her soul and bless her family. But we, as the law enforcement community, need to support our fellow officer, not cover for him or justify any misconduct, but to stand with him as we would stand with any member of our family.

 

[pax]

These 'sources' that say that their are no weapons allowed in any classes have probably never been in a classroom, and that only 'red guns' are used. How do you teach someone how to lock the slide to the rear, or reload a red gun?

You teach that on the range, or with a video filmed on the range. Not in the classroom where there likely is no safe direction.

pax

 

[TJ]

pax, I'm guessing you never tried to have 30 students disassembling their firearms outside, on the range, in the rain, on a windy day.
You teach these simple things in a classroom, where there is not live ammo. That's why ranges have classroom. This academy has never been given the money to build a range. They have to beg, borrow, and steal range time. They try to do all the non-shooting/non-ammo training in a sterile classroom-type environment.
Go to Blackwater, Thunder Ranch or any high dollar facility and they too have classrooms for training, with real guns.

P.S. CORRECTION!!!!! TO LIGHTSPED. The instructor, Sergeant Jackson, was taken from the academy by an ambulance, because he was so shaken. HE WAS NOT TAKEN IN A STRAITJACKET, NOR DID HE GIVE ANY INDICATION TO ANYONE ABOUT HARMING HIMSELF. His only concern was for the welfare of that student and all the other students.

 

[armoredman]

I have never attended this academy, but I will state one thing - when attending COTA here in AZ, we had Glock "safe" guns, firing pins removed, frames color marked to show "safe", and the first thing we did was double check that there was not a single round of live ammo any where in the room, before weapons familiarization began. These were the only weapons allowed in the classrom, including the Remington 870s with hole drilled barrels and firing pins removed.
I do understand complaceny, and it is a sad story, but there is one thing I happened to notice...
This cadet was the first Kennesaw GA police officer, (posthumously awarded her badge, correct?), killed in the line of duty, yet isn't this the same city that requires gun ownership in every household? More guns don't equal more crime, then. Just to find anything positive at all in a terrible event.

 

[Lightsped]

Like I said, my info is from a 3rd party source.....

 

[TJ]

You make good points about the 'non-gun' types of weapons, but from what I understand, this academy handles students from many different agencies, with Glock, Beretta, S&W, Ruger, I had revolver students in one class. I don't think they could afford all those different non-gun guns.
BUT, we're missing the point here. There was nothing wrong with the training. The students did nothing wrong while performing this training. The question is, and will always be, where did the live round come from?

 

[pax]

pax, I'm guessing you never tried to have 30 students disassembling their firearms outside, on the range, in the rain, on a windy day.

The specific post I answered was about "locking the slide to the rear" and "reloads." Both of which I have indeed helped to teach to large classes on the range -- and neither of which would I feel comfortable doing in the classroom.

Heh, as for wind & rain. Look at my location. I'm not sure I'd know how to teach in clear weather.

(Were the lesson "disassembling and cleaning your firearm," that would be a different question. The solution I've seen to that is to instruct the students to partially disassemble -- eg remove the slide -- on the range, and bring the pieces to the classroom for the rest of the lesson. Obviously this wouldn't work in a substandard facility.)

pax

 

[SalukiFan]

This is definitely a terrible tragedy and I think we all feel for both the cadet's family and for the instructor.

I have to agree with c_yeager and Janitor however - this all boils down to following the basic 4 rules. The rules all work together - even if he had accidently left a round in the chamber, this tragedy could of avoided if he had followed Rules 2-4.

On Tuesday night I took part in a police training exercise (vehicle stops) as part of a Citizen's Police Academy. Even though I was given a red gun that was obviously fake, it was extremely difficult for me to point the muzzle at an instructor as part of the exercise just because those rules are so ingrained for me (I did keep my finger off of the "trigger" however). I could see how a person might become complacent though if they used red guns for a while and got used to pointing them at people during exercises and then mixed in real firearms. I'm not saying that red guns don't have a place in training but perhaps that's what happened in this case...

 

[c_yeager]

BUT, we're missing the point here. There was nothing wrong with the training. The students did nothing wrong while performing this training. The question is, and will always be, where did the live round come from?

Sorry, but any training that involves dry-firing a weapon into someones chest is deeply flawed. The presence of the round is immaterial when you consider that the weapon should NEVER have been pointed at another person in the first place. The instructor ASSUMED that his weapon was empty despite the fact that he never cleared it, and he then chose to point it at another person and pull the trigger, how can you say that there is nothing wrong with that?

That is two agregious errors taken on the part of the instructor, not one. One mistake can be innocent, two are negligence. And when someone dies, that negligence becomes a crime.

 

[buzz_knox]

I might have missed some information on this point, but it could easily have not involved intentionally pointing the weapon at the woman. If the weapon were a Glock and the instructor failed to clear the weapon properly and didn't watch his muzzle when he released tension on the striker prior to disassembly, the result would be the same.

Again, the rules are there for a reason. Only by the grace of God have I not caused injury when I violated them, as have we all.

 

[Henry Bowman]

Sorry, but any training that involves dry-firing a weapon into someones chest is deeply flawed.

Really? Guess I better don my flame suit...

My most recent training, which was defensive handgun use, not target shooting, included dry-firing at each other.* Under the stress of an attack, your training (hopefully) takes over. Just like the old stories of FBI agent scooping up spend brass as they did in training, if you've been trained that you NEVER piont a gun at a person, some people may/will have trouble doing so. They had filmed interviews of rookie (and submissive peacenik-type) LEOs that tended to comfirm this.

*Per the agreement with the ONE company in the country that would insure the facility, every firearm that was to be pointed at a person (even if not dry-firing) had to be inspected by at least 3 people in addition to yourself. They have a perfect safety record and I never felt unsafe at any time.

 

[cxm]

What Brand of Sidearm

Has anyone heard what brand of pistol was involved?

I'd bet it is a Glock.

V/r

Chuck

 

[Jenrick]

IF your going to point a real weapon at another person, there are several methods that can be used to insure that there is a minimal chance of a round being fired. The simplest is to put a piece of bright (yellow, orange, red, etc) nylon rope through the mag well, up through the chamber out either out the ejection port or the barrel. You can not chamber a round that way, and you can dry fire to your hearts content if your weapon doesn't need snap caps. Various other devices are out there that allow you to stick something in the chamber signaling it's clear and safe externally (chamber flags, etc).

I interned at an agency that taught SWAT tactics to patrol officers, and they used real weapons for dry fire practice and run throughs. However EVERYONE was patted down and checked by AT LEAST 2 people ANY TIME they ENTERED the training area. Didn't matter how long you were gone, the second you walked out of the door to the training area you were checked upon re-entry. No live ammo was allowed in the training area. You could stack your mags and the like just outside the door if you wanted to, but it did not cross the threshold. From there all weapons were safety flagged with nylon rope, NO exceptions. If it had a firing pin and came past the doorway it got flagged. When we moved onto using simunitions the next day, no real weapons were allowed in the live training area. End of story. Any weapon that was displayed in the classroom was doubled checked (two people) to ensure it was empty before it was used for any purpose.

For those that insist that following the 4 rules would have prevented this I agree, but the reality of the situation conflicts with the 4 rules. In LE and military training it is often a requirement to point a weapon at another person. Can a simulated weapon be used, yes. This would help prevent tragedies like this. However I think that #1 (always treat as loaded unless you can prove otherwise) is much more important in this context. If the officer had just press checked his weapon this tragedy would have been avoided. If they had used some type of chamber flag on all weapons, this could have been avoided. Was pointing his weapon and pulling the trigger a safety violation? Only for the fact that he hadn't cleared it immeadiately first (and had it verified by someone else).

-Jenrick

 

[DeputyVaughn]

Speculation

I speculate of course. My guess is that they may have been having training on cleaning and oiling. If the instructors sidearm was a Glock, he had to run the trigger to disassemble it. The 4 rules still apply but I've seen that particular NG several times including one where an officer shot through his own hand.

I feel for both the instructor and the family of the officer.

Nothing against Glocks here, just a thought.

Scott

 

[Bix]

Henry,

Your post suggests that you engaged in dryfiring live weapons at other students. Given the current abundance and comparative low cost of nonlive alternatives (I'm thinking airsoft, UTM, ect.), why would you elect do this with live weapons? Can you tell us what organization provided that training?

 

[Atticus]

The 4 rules still apply but I've seen that particular NG several times including one where an officer shot through his own hand.

Been there...done that.
Stories like this are heartbreaking. One life ended, and many altered forever.

I hope the "This could never happen to me" crowd takes notice.

Guns are machine that are designed to work - while humans are designed to fail sometimes.

ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS double check or triple check the action when handling your weapon.

Semi-auto: Remove the mag and cycle the action while visually checking the breech and mag well- then check it again.

Revolver: Don't rely on a cartidge count- visually check the cylinder -twice
Carried the S&W yesterday, but your carrying the Colt today?
Ooops ...you missed one.

Having been there, let me tell you -no amount of wishing reverses that moment. Be carefull- be a safety geek!!

 

[Henry Bowman]

Your post suggests that you engaged in dryfiring live weapons at other students.

Correct.

Given the current abundance and comparative low cost of nonlive alternatives (I'm thinking airsoft, UTM, ect.), why would you elect do this with live weapons?

I disagree. The purpose of training is to become proficient with your oun weapon. The alternative would be quite costly in many respects. This was not taken lightly and was a small part of the overall course.

Can you tell us what organization provided that training?

I hesitate out of fear that this will be spun out of proportion, but . . . it is TDI of West Union, (Adams County) Ohio. It is owned and run by John Benner. I cannot praise the experience enough. In a 3 day course (9-10 hours per day), we spent 4 hours in the classroom and the rest on the range, including live fire houses. On day 1 the student/instructor ratio was about 3:1; on days 2 and 3 it was 2:1. This meant that on many exercises, while others were reloading mags, etc., you had two instructors giving you their full attention for much of the time. I would recommend it to anyone who is serious about training and intend to continue my training there each year.