Poll - Is This Home Made Muzzle Loader Deplorable?

[arcticap]

Here's a video showing a kid building a muzzle loader.
From 1:00 to 3:55, he makes the stock which can be skipped.

What he used for a barrel.
At 0:15 in the video, he states that he's using a 3/8" piece of steel pipe.
It looks like soft steel because he seals the breech end by simply flattening the end of the pipe.

Then he makes the wood stock from 1:00 until 3:55 in the video which can be skipped.

He does test fire the barrel before attaching it to the stock, and it was able to blow a hole through a piece of wood.
Slow motion shows that the breech is not well sealed.
At the end he announces that he doesn't recommend that anyone make it, but if they do to be sure to wear eye protection.

Thankfully the kid didn't hurt himself.
So is this muzzle loader deplorable or is this just an example of a kid being a kid?
Do you think that his parents knew what he's doing with the powder?
What would you do if he was your kid?
Note that this video has over 1.3 million views!

 

[labnoti]

It's great. It just needs to be supplemented with some supervised demonstrations of the potential shortcomings and dangers -- by making some pipe bombs and detonating them together -- using the same barrel material.

 

[labnoti]

I don't think I really need to get specific since the video creator isn't likely to read this, but some examples of what I would do:

take the pipe material and smash one end as he did with the breech
prepare the nipple/flash hole by drilling it out sufficiently to allow some canon fuse or Estes model rocket ignitor to be inserted
fill with powder and then plug the pipe from the muzzle end with a ball or two balls and dent the pipe a bit with a punch so the balls won't easily exit
place the barrel behind a berm and prepare the fuse or ignitor
place a water melon near the barrel to simulate the head of our rifleman
shelter a safe distance away behind an additional barrier
detonate
inspect the outcome
repeat a few times with different variables such as additional powder or a more thoroughly blocked muzzle or perhaps smokeless powder to observe the effects

I would also discuss potential design improvements
For example, most people would probably desire a "stronger" barrel/tube/pipe; maybe we could use DOM tubing instead of ERW pipe, maybe 4130 DOM tubing that is heat treated, thicker? But I would ask if we weren't just creating a more powerful bomb by building up greater pressure before it ruptures.
Then I would consider how we dented the pipe with a punch and discuss other possible causes of barrel obstruction -- could we improve the design by making the barrel straighter, more concentric, with more perfectly parallel walls? Could we ream and hone the tube to ensure a smoother exit for the projectile?
Then I would turn the consideration to failure modes. How and where did the pipe fail? Did the smashed end blow out? Did the pipe rupture along the weld seam? Could we engineer a more desirable failure mode? Could we strategically weaken the barrel so that if a failure should occur, it would fail in an advantageous way?

 

[expat_alaska]

Dianne Feinstein would be appalled. That's a "ghost gun", right?

 

[arcticap]

It seems like he's showing how to build a throw away ML since he didn't instruct how to clean it at all, even though he had time at the end.
Without cleaning instructions, the gun would become even more dangerous over time.

The kid looks old enough to have known better.
I would be very disappointed if it were one of my kids and would want to know where he obtained the powder from.
If he used my powder to do it then I would be even more disappointed that he didn't ask permission.

I recall putting a gun up for sale on Gunbroker, and someone clicked "Buy it now".
Then the guy responded and said that his young son went on the computer and clicked to buy it, but that he would pay the fees if I cancelled the transaction.
Whether that was true or not, kids can sometimes figure out how to obtain items that they shouldn't have access to without adult supervision.

But contributing to the potential injury of others by making the video would be a concern, even though every kid should have an opportunity to go shooting.
And that's a big problem, how kids can end up involved in unsafe shooting situations if they don't get a chance to shoot and to be trained properly enough to be trusted.
That kid in the video may have been trained, but he didn't share enough of his knowledge with others.
I think that he knew that it was dangerous since he wasn't aiming with the gun either.

A survivalist gun is good to know about, but the flip side is that using one can be hazardous to unsuspecting young people.
I think that making that gun presents more risks to young people than it's worth.

I would also discuss potential design improvements

I like your answers.
It's hard to be pro-gun and to be disappointed with the video.
At least your answer provides a way to make something positive of it.
But once the video is out there, then look at the risks that it can create.
Hopefully, no one was hurt by watching the video and following through with the instructions.

 

[kell]

I did equally stupid and dangerous things when I was a kid. We didn't have videos then. If we did, and I posted anything like this, my dad would have ?????.

 

[kBob]

Kell,

I bet your dad WOULD NOT have posted a video of himself skinning you alive.

-kBob

 

[WestKentucky]

I have seen other items of equally poor construction used in industrial settings. Is it going to fail? Yes. Is it going to hurt somebody when it does? Maybe. If he had put another pipe around the breech to catch flak if/when it blows I would give him more credit, otherwise it’s essentially a crude gun like what you sometimes see being made in prison or in some 3rd world country from similar scavenged materials. Is there a term for a crude handmade gun? I guess it would be very similar to a shiv, just gun form instead of knife form. Maybe zip gun, but I would think there to be some other term.

 

[labnoti]

Improvised Firearm or "impro gun."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvised_firearm

https://homemadeguns.wordpress.com/

 

[AlexanderA]

At least the kid knew it was dangerous enough so that he held the "gun" at arm's length.

He had no concept of a breech plug, though. If you're going to make a zip gun at least use pipe and an end cap.

The problem with videos like this is that other kids might copy them and lose an eye or worse.

 

[.455_Hunter]

I converted a cap gun "musket" into a real muzzle loader for 10th grade World History Class. I got a new 3/8" ID tube and my Dad helped braze a re-enforcing collar/breech-plug on the back end. I shot .350" patched balls and using 9mm case full of Pyrodex. For the demonstration, I brought the musket to class and showed a video of the loading / firing process. I shot it frequently at home afterwards. I had access to powder whenever I wanted it- the bottle was sitting on my bedroom closet shelf. This was 1992 in Boulder, CO, NOT 1952.

 

[robhof]

My brother and I did that with cannons after buying a 25 cal B/P one in mexico, after several blow ups we decided to get a DGW barrel in .75 cal and build the carriage, that was in 1964, I've still got it and shoot it>>

 

[Patocazador]

Does the same guy make zip guns out of car antennas?

 

[Kevin Keith]

I don't think he's deplorable at all.

 

[Tommygunn]

Kell,

I bet your dad WOULD NOT have posted a video of himself skinning you alive.

-kBob

Mine would have.

 

[expat_alaska]

The problem with videos like this is that other kids might copy them and lose an eye or worse.

And that is exactly the problem with social media. There is no control nor vetting.

I am going to look on the Internet and try to create a dirty nuclear weapon because I am PO'd with the way the world is now. I am concerned that is what the current mindset is with young people who may have firm beliefs about the current protests carried to a higher level, and have no idea what the consequences will be. We are in a very dangerous era. Do not underestimate the younger generation. They are intelligent and have more online connections than any of us old farts can even imagine.

Sorry for the rant.

Regards,

Jim

 

[woodnbow]

Here's a video showing a kid building a muzzle loader.
From 1:00 to 3:55, he makes the stock which can be skipped.

What he used for a barrel.
At 0:15 in the video, he states that he's using a 3/8" piece of steel pipe.
It looks like soft steel because he seals the breech end by simply flattening the end of the pipe.

Then he makes the wood stock from 1:00 until 3:55 in the video which can be skipped.

He does test fire the barrel before attaching it to the stock, and it was able to blow a hole through a piece of wood.
Slow motion shows that the breech is not well sealed.
At the end he announces that he doesn't recommend that anyone make it, but if they do to be sure to wear eye protection.

Thankfully the kid didn't hurt himself.
So is this muzzle loader deplorable or is this just an example of a kid being a kid?
Do you think that his parents knew what he's doing with the powder?
What would you do if he was your kid?
Note that this video has over 1.3 million views!

If you’ve ever read Patrick McManus, revisit an essay called, “Poof, No eyebrows!”

I did dumb stuff too as a kid, must have gotten concussed though cause now I don’t remember half of it. My old man was a paratrooper and once made the mistake of showing my brother and me how to tuck and roll. Next thing you know, we’ve rigged up bedsheets as parachutes and we’re jumping out of the hayloft doors... I picked it up real quick but my little brother broke his arm...On the way to the clinic I could tell my dad was so proud of us! I don’t remember him saying as much but every so often I would catch him looking at the two of us and shaking his head in wonder at his budding Rangers...

Someone might let this kid know that he might not survive some of his experiments. Which doesn’t mean they aren’t worth doing, just that he may not gain from the education provided for the rest of us. A man once told me that even I could serve as an example, or a cautionary tale...

 

[woodnbow]

Does the same guy make zip guns out of car antennas?

Did you?

My friend Kay took one of her dads shotgun shells, chucked it in a vice and whacked the primer a few good licks with a ball peen hammer. It finally popped and she still has a scar on her forehead adding character to a really beautiful face. She’s also very intelligent but you’d never know it based on that incident, or some of her subsequent choices in her romantic life.

I don't think I really need to get specific since the video creator isn't likely to read this, but some examples of what I would do:

take the pipe material and smash one end as he did with the breech
prepare the nipple/flash hole by drilling it out sufficiently to allow some canon fuse or Estes model rocket ignitor to be inserted
fill with powder and then plug the pipe from the muzzle end with a ball or two balls and dent the pipe a bit with a punch so the balls won't easily exit
place the barrel behind a berm and prepare the fuse or ignitor
place a water melon near the barrel to simulate the head of our rifleman
shelter a safe distance away behind an additional barrier
detonate
inspect the outcome
repeat a few times with different variables such as additional powder or a more thoroughly blocked muzzle or perhaps smokeless powder to observe the effects

I would also discuss potential design improvements
For example, most people would probably desire a "stronger" barrel/tube/pipe; maybe we could use DOM tubing instead of ERW pipe, maybe 4130 DOM tubing that is heat treated, thicker? But I would ask if we weren't just creating a more powerful bomb by building up greater pressure before it ruptures.
Then I would consider how we dented the pipe with a punch and discuss other possible causes of barrel obstruction -- could we improve the design by making the barrel straighter, more concentric, with more perfectly parallel walls? Could we ream and hone the tube to ensure a smoother exit for the projectile?
Then I would turn the consideration to failure modes. How and where did the pipe fail? Did the smashed end blow out? Did the pipe rupture along the weld seam? Could we engineer a more desirable failure mode? Could we strategically weaken the barrel so that if a failure should occur, it would fail in an advantageous way?

I’m going to re-read Fadala’s experiments along those lines. He used copper pipe with 100 grains of ffg and a patched.530 ball. They did not blow until he began short starting the ball by 10” or so..

 

[TTv2]

At least the kid knew it was dangerous enough so that he held the "gun" at arm's length.

He had no concept of a breech plug, though. If you're going to make a zip gun at least use pipe and an end cap.

The problem with videos like this is that other kids might copy them and lose an eye or worse.

Yeah, crimping the breech close vs threading and red Loctiting a cap on is the difference between somewhat safe and not very safe. At least he appeared to keep his charges low and he only used shot, not a patched ball.

 

[Patocazador]

"Does the same guy make zip guns out of car antennas?"

"Did you?"

No, but I saw some made by kids my age. They used a car antenna (all were broken off in my neighborhood), a .22 cartridge, some wood, a nail and a strong rubber band.

 

[woodnbow]

"Does the same guy make zip guns out of car antennas?"

"Did you?"

No, but I saw some made by kids my age. They used a car antenna (all were broken off in my neighborhood), a .22 cartridge, some wood, a nail and a strong rubber band.

I heard about those but I was raised a cowboy too. We had actual firearms to use from about as long as I can recall. Had I not, who knows what I would have manufactured out in the shop.

 

[AlexanderA]

Where I grew up (Kansas and Texas) kids didn't make zip guns because they generally had access to real guns. Some of the things they did with the real guns, though, had questionable safety. One example was drilling out the chamber of a .22 LR to make a .22 Magnum. Another example was having a contest to see who could eject a loaded shotgun shell the farthest by popping open the breech of their break-open shotgun.

I personally never had a .22 or a shotgun growing up. The first gun I had was a surplus Carcano that I persuaded my dad to buy me at around the age of 15. It cost all of $10.

 

[Officers'Wife]

OK, I saw late uncle do some pretty crazy things when he was alive, including modifying the tail pipe of a pickup to act as a "flame thrower" to easily ignite brush piles. But... I firmly and fully believe this would even shock HIS sensitivities! I honestly cannot say how I would react if one of my children created this insult to the peace and dignity of a civilized society. Unfortunately the state of Indiana has child protection laws that would prevent the punishment fitting the crime.

 

[Patocazador]

I honestly cannot say how I would react if one of my children created this insult to the peace and dignity of a civilized society.

This was done close to you. I grew up in Chicago. Even though I never was introduced to the mores of other places, inherently, I knew that the city was an abomination. When I was 16 (1959), I left home and wound up in Tennessee. Best move I ever made!

 

[Heir Kommt Die Sonne]

Just a kid being a kid. I was a wanna-be weapons crafter myself when I was 15-16. Never succeeded in any of my projects, but i did build a spear or two successfully.
The kid has know-how with the tools he's using, strikes me as someone who does alot of projects with his dad. But obviously doesn't have a big grasp on how to properly make a firearm. What he needs is someone to buy him a percussion build pistol from DGW and so he can get his hands dirty and learn the proper ropes of making a wood stocked firearm. Staining wood, finishing metal, etc. because that's what kept me satisfied as a teen.
He knew some degree of safety by holding the (you know, the thing) at arms length but didn't go into enough detail about why what he was doing was unsafe. He shouldn't have labeled the video a "How to" but a "hey look what I made" type of video.
Judging by his hoodie, he wants to be a Marine. Marines have to be fit and able-bodied when recruited. Shame he isn't taking safety more seriously. His dreams can be taken from him in a single second if he isn't more careful.