Airman Basic
Member
Interesting story in new Guns & Ammo about plastic cases. End of reloading as we know it?
Polymer cartridge cases
- Thread starter Airman Basic
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I don't have a copy of Guns and Ammo here. Is this the same system?
Hokie_PhD
Member
I haven’t seen the article
But there are several factors in new technologies replacing old ones. Cost is a big one, next is existing infrastructure, in this case the capital investment of the companies that make the brass. There’s politics. Like it or not politics effects everything in our lives. Consumer opinions is another. And I could go on and on but these are the major ones I can think of right now.
So, the short answer is not in the short term. As long as brass exists, and as long as companies produce more there will be reloading as we know it.
Longer term, I have no idea. If these poly casings are cheap enough we may see them make brass like film is. In other words a niche product.
Just for though, Hornaday makes bullets and reloading equipment. And they make brass. So I can’t see them leaving the markets their in anytime soon. I can see their senior management having some very intense meetings to discuss this new threat to their businesses. So it’ll be interesting to see how they and similar companies react. How ammo manufactures position themselves and how the public acts toward this new technology.
ReloaderFred
Member
It's nothing new. Wanda used to make all plastic shotgun shells with a small metal disc in the rim for extraction. Another company makes polymer .223 rounds with a press in brass base for the primer and extractor groove. I remember when all the buzz was about caseless ammunition and how that was going to change the ammunition market and there wasn't going to be any more reloading. Then aluminum was going to replace brass, et. cetera.
Brass cases have been around for well over 150 years, and they're not going anywhere soon.
Hope this helps.
Fred
Brass cases have been around for well over 150 years, and they're not going anywhere soon.
Hope this helps.
Fred
Something I read a while back suggested that the military was looking at this new armament as non-reusable. So an enemy couldn't make new use of spent cases and all for their cause.
Don't know if there was any truth to that or not.
Don't know if there was any truth to that or not.
GBExpat
Member
I just too a cursory look at the article. The cartridge looks like a Russian steel case head mated to the poly body to make a completed casing. The poly acts as an insulator that allows the chamber of machine guns to run cooler. The advantage is in cost of shipping ammo and the ability of the G.I. to carry more rounds as the weight is not there.
Big7
Member
They are nothing new.
"Eclipse" made shotgun shells that I shot a lot back in the day.
(plastic rim and all)
Seen some .223 and .308 that had a steel rim and the rest was plastic.
That's not really in my wheel-house and I don't know who made them.
Brass ain't going anywhere.
"Eclipse" made shotgun shells that I shot a lot back in the day.
(plastic rim and all)
Seen some .223 and .308 that had a steel rim and the rest was plastic.
That's not really in my wheel-house and I don't know who made them.
Brass ain't going anywhere.
GooseGestapo
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My insider at Ft Benning has said that work is underway in assessing the 6.5mm version of the cased telescoping ammunition in the light squad automatic weapon. Ballistically it approximates the 6.5Grendel, but uses a 123gr bullet similar to M855-1. Case body is polymer.
Can’t speculate if it’s reloadable. No news on state of acceptance for deployment.
I’ve even seen/heard that DOD is holding off, pending developments of laser/magnetic pulse weapon developments.
In the near term, (10-20yrs) brass case ammo will still be with us.
Emphasis is on “Green” and renewable technologies. Brass recycles easily. Cheap doesn’t seem to factor anymore.
Can’t speculate if it’s reloadable. No news on state of acceptance for deployment.
I’ve even seen/heard that DOD is holding off, pending developments of laser/magnetic pulse weapon developments.
In the near term, (10-20yrs) brass case ammo will still be with us.
Emphasis is on “Green” and renewable technologies. Brass recycles easily. Cheap doesn’t seem to factor anymore.
GunnyUSMC
Member
I used to shoot Active 12ga shotgun ammo years ago. It was an all plastic hull with a steel rim that was molded inside the base. I think I threw away the last of the empty hulls when cleaning up my shop.
I do have a little more then 1500 rounds of 7.62x51 NATO training ammunition. Shoots great in my bolt actions.
Most of the plastic ammunition to replace brass that I’ve seen is non reloadable and cost more then standard ammunition.
I do have a little more then 1500 rounds of 7.62x51 NATO training ammunition. Shoots great in my bolt actions.
Most of the plastic ammunition to replace brass that I’ve seen is non reloadable and cost more then standard ammunition.
jmorris
Member
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- 24,258
I doubt it, these came out 35 years ago.
And went the way of the pet rock.
A few years ago, ok maybe a decade ago, a friend gave me almost 1000 rounds of a plastic case, brass base, .223 ammunition that is fine in a single shot rifle but is nothing but trouble in a semiauto.
You can sell something to just about anyone but in order to have repeat customers and stay in business, it has to work for enough people to keep them buying it.
And went the way of the pet rock.
A few years ago, ok maybe a decade ago, a friend gave me almost 1000 rounds of a plastic case, brass base, .223 ammunition that is fine in a single shot rifle but is nothing but trouble in a semiauto.
You can sell something to just about anyone but in order to have repeat customers and stay in business, it has to work for enough people to keep them buying it.
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beag_nut
Member
Already is for me, since I am up to 20+ reloads per case, not counting range brass!
I have some, pretty accurate and does not change POI much at 50 yds, feel like shooting 22 but loud enough to think it is a real thing. Cost < 10 cents/rnd. Too bad it only works for bolt gun.
ray15
Member
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- Apr 18, 2017
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- 946
Just because the cost is lower doesn't mean the price will be. If it compromises reloading/handloading there may be no way to take advantage of any inherent cost advantage.
Yes, as soon as ALL manufacturers switch to it, ALL remaining brass, aluminum and steel cases in the world disappear or are used up beyond its life and NO manufacturer ever produces brass cases for reloading again.
...otherwise, not likely.
Ironhand54
Member
Don't be too quick to dismiss new technology. Look at the evolution of the shotgun shell. I am sure that some shooters thought that paper hulls were a passing fad and brass hulls would never be replaced.
Ammo companies adopt new technologies all the time. If this is, or can be made, a viable technology then one of the companies might well adopt it. In theory it could lower the cost of production and shipping as well as providing a product that is less dependent on imported raw materials.
As to past attempts at plastic cases. Look at how many different and failed designs there were for a brass case during the Civil War Era. Developing a technology is not a fast process. It will be interesting to see if this one succeeds.
IronHand
Ammo companies adopt new technologies all the time. If this is, or can be made, a viable technology then one of the companies might well adopt it. In theory it could lower the cost of production and shipping as well as providing a product that is less dependent on imported raw materials.
As to past attempts at plastic cases. Look at how many different and failed designs there were for a brass case during the Civil War Era. Developing a technology is not a fast process. It will be interesting to see if this one succeeds.
IronHand
GunnyUSMC
Member
Anyone remember these?
Gunny, Natchez still has them, https://www.natchezss.com/speer-plastic-training-cartridges-38-cal-50-ct.html
Huntington's has them in a few sizes but not .38.
Not sure if they are still in production though.
Huntington's has them in a few sizes but not .38.
Not sure if they are still in production though.
GunnyUSMC
Member
The plastic bullets aren’t worth much without the cases.
Come to think, I may still have some of the bullets and cases tucked away with some old reloading supplies.
Actually, they work fine without the case. You just need to drill out the primer hole, and mark them so as not to mix them with reloading brass.
someguy2800
Member
I picked up a bunch of plastic cased 223 ammo at the range about 15 years ago. What I wish we could buy is loadable steel cases for disposable handloads with no brass prep.
I agree but apparently Speer is still making both (at least they are still on the website for Speer) -
https://www.speer-ammo.com/bullets/plastic-training-bullets/plastic-training-bullets
https://www.speer-ammo.com/bullets/plastic-training-bullet-cases/plastic-training-bullet-cases
Huntingtons has some of the cases
http://www.huntingtons.com/store/product.php?productid=17173
Grafs and Sons has both listed but only has the bullets in stock right now.
GunnyUSMC
Member
I guess it’s the only plastic ammo that has stood the test of time.
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