Possible S&W Shield .45 sale or trade

[Spats McGee]

Welcome back to Overthinkers Anonymous. I'm Spats McGee and I'll be your host...

So I've had this Smith & Wesson Shield .45 for a couple of years now. Some of you may recall that I've had feeding problems. It's been back to the mothership, and while I haven't kept an exact count, I think I've run a couple of hundred rounds through it -- enough to get past any break-in period, IMHO. Because we all like pictures, here are a couple.

Ok, so back to the feeding problems. I took her up on the ridge over the weekend and put a couple more magazines through. I mostly like the way it shoots, but the feeding problems persisted. As I noted above, it's gone back to S&W, and it should be broken in by now. I also had a friend of mine (a gunsmith and an avid shooter) shoot it. I'm pretty sure he had some friends and family shoot it, too. His words to me were, "We couldn't get it to choke." Accordingly, I think that this is a shooter error problem. I'm going to have one more friend of mine shoot it and see what happens. If it really looks like it's just a matter of me limp wristing it, maybe it's time for her to go up for sale. (Yes, I know I could do a bunch of hand and wrist exercises, but: (a) this is the only pistol I limp wrist; and (b) I work 50+ hours per week, so finding time for anything else is tough.)

If I trade it, which seems likely, I'd like opinions on my current list of contenders. If there's something that y'all think of that isn't on my list, please don't hesitate to mention it.
1. Beretta U22 Neos, S&W Victory or Browning Buckmark -- I put these all together, just because they're all .22 pistols. I've got several Ruger .22s, but it's really hard to have too many .22s, IMHO. I'm pretty sure it would be hard to make a bad choice in this category, and the only real requirement is that the new pistol has to have a threaded barrel.
2. Savage Mark II FV-SR -- While I do have a .22 bolt gun with a threaded bull barrel, I don't have this .22 bolt gun with a threaded bull barrel. I'd kind of like to run it head-to-head against my Ruger. IIRC, I even have an extra Nikon scope stashed away, identical to the one my Ruger wears. So it could be a decent apples-to-apples comparison.
3. Ruger American Ranch in .223. -- I don't have a bolt action centerfire rifle these days. I don't really want to get into a new caliber, and I do have some .223 on hand. In my area, shooting anything over about 200 yards is unlikely. This one would be for both targets and some possible pest control.
4. Savage bolt gun in .223 -- As much as I like my Rugers, I've been sorely tempted by Savage lately. They've got a bunch of different models, but if I want to minimize my outlay here, the obvious choice is something from the Axis line. I'm not a top-tier long range marksman (not by a long shot, pa-dum crash (pun 100% intended), so I don't expect to outshoot the rifle any time soon. I suspect that most modern rifles are capable of better accuracy than I am. I would like a threaded barrel, just in case I ever get a can for this, but it's not absolutely necessary. If I need it later, I have a competent gunsmith who can thread the barrel for me.
5. Something by Tikka, Howa, or CZ. I'd forgotten about these when I first created this list, but a quick trip back down this rabbit hole reminds me that I should look at them more closely.
6. LCP, or similar flat pocket gun, probably in .380. This would just be for CC when I can't belt carry. While I'm not a big fan of the .380, you have to jump up quite a bit in size when you move from it to 9mm, which of course makes pocket carry more difficult.

I know I've started threads on some of these models before, but it's been a couple of years, so it's time to re-think them. The various companies may have developed (or solved) QC issues, there may be new competitors on the market, etc.

Thoughts? What am I missing? Thanks in advance.

 

[wesmonster]

Is you feed issue with certain types of ammo? How is it with 230 gr. ball .45acp?
I've had a Shield .45 since they first came out and have not had any feed issues with 230 gr. ball or my reloads with 200gr SWCs. But if it's not 100% reliable with the ammo of your choice, not worth keeping.
If you think it's limp wristing and want another Shield I really like my S&W EZ380. Bought it as a trainer and liked it enough to keep. It's the only centerfire pistol I have that I can shoot reasonably well with my non-dominate hand, so if I ever have my hand in a cast this is what I'd want.

Of your rimfire pistols I'd vote Buckmark. Neos has a terrible trigger.

For a rimfire bolt action rifle, Savage or Tikka T1x. I have a Tikka and it's my best rimfire rifle. Savage will probably need some polishing and accuracy can be hit or miss but much cheaper. Also have a Ruger Am Rimfire compact and while it's not tic tak accurate it's reliable and consistant. But the T1x is king of paper punching.

I also have two Ruger centerfire bolt actions in .300bo and 6.5 Grendel that take AR mags. Great rifles and both take AR mags. But if you're not planning to use AR mags I'd look at other brands. Ruger rotary mags have a reputation for being hit or miss although Ruger CS is great. Some Rugers like the Americans and Predators can be a little rough around the edges like Savage but over the years Ruger prices have jumped to the point I feel a Howa, CZ or Tikka is much better quality for a few more bucks.

S&W also make a nice M&P polymer compact rimfire that has a good rep but IMHO isn't as well built as an old school all steel rimfire pistol like a Ruger MK, Buckmark or Victory. I don't have an M&P rimfire but do have a Walther PPQ-22 which is the same internals.

 

[Spats McGee]

Thank you, @wesmonster.

Is you feed issue with certain types of ammo? How is it with 230 gr. ball .45acp?

About 95% of what it's had has been 230 gr. ball. Now, in all fairness, it's 230 gr. ball, military surplus, probably bought in the 1980s. My 1911 runs it just fine, though.

...But if it's not 100% reliable with the ammo of your choice, not worth keeping.
If you think it's limp wristing and want another Shield I really like my S&W EZ380.

Had I bought it as a range pistol, I'd be less bothered by the misfeeds. But since I bought it for carry .... And yeah, I think I'm limp wristing it. I know that's a solvable problem, but I think I'd rather just have a different pistol than spend the time and ammo trying to fix it, considering it's the only pistol I have this problem with. And my time is in very short supply these days.

Of your rimfire pistols I'd vote Buckmark. Neos has a terrible trigger.

Good to know. Both have been on my list for a long time. More than anything, I just like the looks of the Neos.

For a rimfire bolt action rifle, Savage or Tikka T1x. I have a Tikka and it's my best rimfire rifle. Savage will probably need some polishing and accuracy can be hit or miss but much cheaper. Also have a Ruger Am Rimfire compact and while it's not tic tak accurate it's reliable and consistant. But the T1x is king of paper punching.

I have 2 RARs that I like very much, but I want to branch out. I looked at the T1x, and it does look good. Right, wrong, or indifferent, though, so does the Savage.

....S&W also make a nice M&P polymer compact rimfire that has a good rep but IMHO isn't as well built as an old school all steel rimfire pistol like a Ruger MK, Buckmark or Victory. I don't have an M&P rimfire but do have a Walther PPQ-22 which is the same internals.

I've considered that S&W, as well as the SR22, but I think I'll save them for another day.

Thanks again.

 

[12Bravo20]

I never did like the grip angle on the NEOS nor how the pistol fit my hand. For me the NEOS grip angle was pretty extreme.

When it comes to Savage rimfire rifles, I will highly recommend going with one that has the heavier Varmint barrel. All of my Savage rifles have the varmint barrel and they all shoot good. I have never cared for the Savage sporter barrels since they are pretty thin.

Now if you want a more refined 22lr rifle then go with the Tikka T1x. Yes they cost more but the fit and finish will be better.

When it comes to Savage centerfire rifles, again I will recommend going with one that has the varmint barrel. And I have not seen a traditional polymer stocked Savage Axis with a varmint barrel in quite some time. Savage does offer the Axis Precision rifles with a heavier barrel. But for what the Axis Precision costs, you might as well spend more and step up to the 110 Precision. The 110 is a better rifle compared to the Axis.

 

[TomJ]

Spats,
If you remember I recently had feed issues with my 9mm Shield Plus from the Performance Center which I ultimately found was a magazine issue. Have you ruled out a similar issue with your gun? If yes and you want to sell it to fund something new my vote is the CZ PCR with a Cajun Gun Works Ultra Lite trigger upgrade. That upgrade is simple to do and give the gun as smooth of a trigger as I've experienced in a DA/SA gun. Mine has been reliable and accurate.

https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-75-d-pcr-compact/
https://cajungunworks.com/product/54420-ultra-lite/

 

[Spats McGee]

Spats,
If you remember I recently had feed issues with my 9mm Shield Plus from the Performance Center which I ultimately found was a magazine issue. Have you ruled out a similar issue with your gun?

Actually, no. I have not ruled that out. My buddy that shot it had no issues, though.

If yes and you want to sell it to fund something new my vote is the CZ PCR with a Cajun Gun Works Ultra Lite trigger upgrade. That upgrade is simple to do and give the gun as smooth of a trigger as I've experienced in a DA/SA gun. Mine has been reliable and accurate.

That does sound like a good one!

https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-75-d-pcr-compact/
https://cajungunworks.com/product/54420-ultra-lite/

 

[Spats McGee]

Spats,
If you remember I recently had feed issues with my 9mm Shield Plus from the Performance Center which I ultimately found was a magazine issue. Have you ruled out a similar issue with your gun?...

I initially said that I had not ruled it out, but on further reflection, I'm not sure that's right. I remember doing some digging on the issue of magazine followers and determined that I have the most recent design (or the most recent as of the time I checked it out, anyway).

 

[tarosean]

(Yes, I know I could do a bunch of hand and wrist exercises, but: (a) this is the only pistol I limp wrist;

Perhaps your dragging the slide or putting pressure on the slide stop with your grip?

Back when the VP9 dropped I thought it was the gun to replace my Glocks. Shot it at my range, liked the trigger, accurate as hell, reliable, etc. etc. fast forward a couple weeks. I take it to USPSA event. malfunction after malfunction after malfunction. My grip was causing the malfunctions, with that gun and only that gun when I was under the "buzzer".
It went down the road a couple days later.

 

[Howland937]

So, I'm terrible at following instructions. So terrible that I mostly never read them. I did read yours, however. Of your listed replacement options, I'd likely choose a Buckmark. Contingent upon your shooting preferences of course.

One thing I'd highly recommend would be another 1911, but this time in 9mm. I've found myself shooting mine a lot more than my other 1911's of late, and it's just a lot of fun. If you don't already have one...

 

[Spats McGee]

Perhaps your dragging the slide or putting pressure on the slide stop with your grip?

I can't rule that out as a possibility.

 

[Spats McGee]

... Buckmark...

Definitely a contender. They've been on The List for a long time.

....another 1911, but this time in 9mm....If you don't already have one...

I do not have one, and that does sound like fun.

 

[chicharrones]

Regarding the rimfire pistols, I had a Neos . . . with a carbine kit. They were neat optic ready guns made when optic ready was less common.

However, I never cared for the safety levers that are too far back or the AR type position of the mag release for a pistol or the small grip. So I sold the Neos and the Carbine kit.

I replaced the Neos with a Buckmark and put a red dot on it. Good gun. Buttons and levers where they should be. Plus, the grip fits my hand very well and feels real close to a 1911.

The only knock on the Buckmark is that they aren’t as bargain priced as they once were.

 

[Howland937]

I do not have one, and that does sound like fun.

In a full size steel frame, factory 9mm loads are about as pleasant to shoot as anything short of rimfire.
This one in commander length with aluminum frame is still a creampuff.

 

[Dudedog]

One thing I'd highly recommend would be another 1911, but this time in 9mm

I will second this.
A full size 1911 in 9mm is just a joy to shoot.
I really like my Springfield 9mm Loaded Target (PI9134), so much so I bought a spare. (just in case it falls off CAs stupid list)
About 80k rounds thru #1, replace recoil springs, mags springs, FP spring and it's still going strong.
(may be time for a new barrel soon...)
#2 only has about a 1000 thru it.

 

[TarDevil]

I will second this.
A full size 1911 in 9mm is just a joy to shoot.

Make it three!

 

[Ethan Verity]

The M&P Shield 45 is definitely susceptible to limp-wrist malfunctions, I had the same exact experience with mine. I could make it run flawless all day long when gripping tight, but the moment I would start with a loose bench-rested grip to practice longer range shots I started having feed problems. I was able to improve it slightly with Wolff extra power magazine springs, but it would still happen every once in a while. I ended up selling my 45 Shield in favor of the new 9mm Shield Plus, with 4 more rounds on tap AND I could not induce a limp wrist malfunction no matter how loose I tried with holding the 9 Shield. I would add a Shield Plus to your list, unless you already have one.

 

[Spats McGee]

The M&P Shield 45 is definitely susceptible to limp-wrist malfunctions, I had the same exact experience with mine. I could make it run flawless all day long when gripping tight, but the moment I would start with a loose bench-rested grip to practice longer range shots I started having feed problems. I was able to improve it slightly with Wolff extra power magazine springs, but it would still happen every once in a while. I ended up selling my 45 Shield in favor of the new 9mm Shield Plus, with 4 more rounds on tap AND I could not induce a limp wrist malfunction no matter how loose I tried with holding the 9 Shield. I would add a Shield Plus to your list, unless you already have one.

Thanks. It's kind of nice to know I'm not the only one!

....I would add a Shield Plus to your list, unless you already have one.

I have one, and it's my EDC.

 

[bannockburn]

Howland937

This one in commander length with aluminum frame is still a creampuff.

A 1911 in 9mm. is a real pussycat to shoot but I'm with you; make mine a lightweight Colt Commander in .38 Super along with a 9mm. barrel assembly for a truly versatile convertible!

Had a Colt Government in .38 Super years ago but always felt it and the 9mm. was too much gun for those cartridges. For me a 1911 in 9mm. should be slightly smaller and weigh a bit less; same for my .38 Supers.

 

[Howland937]

me a 1911 in 9mm. should be slightly smaller and weigh a bit less; same for my .38

A switch-over 38 Super barrel for the DW Guardian is on the to do list, but I'm not sure how I feel about using the loads I shoot in my full size, all steel SIG Match Elite. Of course I will try it though.

 

[JR24]

I'd get int the 9mm 1911 camp too. Steel, aluminum, doesn't matter they are so easy and fun to shoot.

 

[TomJ]

With a 9mm 1911 being in the mix, that would be my recommendation. I have a Guardian and an Eco and they’re a pleasure to shoot.

 

[kmw1954]

If the need is to replace the 45acp with another pistol I would suggest the 45acp full size metal frame Tanfoglio Witness.

If replacing with anlong gun the seeing as I had all at the same time a Savage Axis 223, Savage Model 10 223 and a Savage Model 11 that now has a Model 12 Savage Varmint barrel 223 on it.

 

[Walkalong]

worth keeping.
If you think it's limp wristing and want another Shield I really like my S&W EZ380. Bought it as a trainer and liked it enough to keep. It's the only centerfire pistol I have that I can shoot reasonably well with

My SIL bought a S&W EZ, and it’s a sweet shooting pistol, my wife also liked it very much.

I love 1911s, so I never vote “ against “ them.

 

[I6turbo]

If I trade it, which seems likely, I'd like opinions on my current list of contenders. If there's something that y'all think of that isn't on my list, please don't hesitate to mention it.
1. Beretta U22 Neos, S&W Victory or Browning Buckmark -- I put these all together, just because they're all .22 pistols. I've got several Ruger .22s, but it's really hard to have too many .22s, IMHO. I'm pretty sure it would be hard to make a bad choice in this category, and the only real requirement is that the new pistol has to have a threaded barrel.
2. Savage Mark II FV-SR -- While I do have a .22 bolt gun with a threaded bull barrel, I don't have this .22 bolt gun with a threaded bull barrel. I'd kind of like to run it head-to-head against my Ruger. IIRC, I even have an extra Nikon scope stashed away, identical to the one my Ruger wears. So it could be a decent apples-to-apples comparison.
3. Ruger American Ranch in .223. -- I don't have a bolt action centerfire rifle these days. I don't really want to get into a new caliber, and I do have some .223 on hand. In my area, shooting anything over about 200 yards is unlikely. This one would be for both targets and some possible pest control.
4. Savage bolt gun in .223 -- As much as I like my Rugers, I've been sorely tempted by Savage lately. They've got a bunch of different models, but if I want to minimize my outlay here, the obvious choice is something from the Axis line. I'm not a top-tier long range marksman (not by a long shot, pa-dum crash (pun 100% intended), so I don't expect to outshoot the rifle any time soon. I suspect that most modern rifles are capable of better accuracy than I am. I would like a threaded barrel, just in case I ever get a can for this, but it's not absolutely necessary. If I need it later, I have a competent gunsmith who can thread the barrel for me.
5. Something by Tikka, Howa, or CZ. I'd forgotten about these when I first created this list, but a quick trip back down this rabbit hole reminds me that I should look at them more closely.
6. LCP, or similar flat pocket gun, probably in .380. This would just be for CC when I can't belt carry. While I'm not a big fan of the .380, you have to jump up quite a bit in size when you move from it to 9mm, which of course makes pocket carry more difficult.

Thoughts? What am I missing? Thanks in advance.

I suggest you move up in price point a little bit, and of course expecting more satisfaction with what you get for those extra funds. The candidates you list above, with the possible exception of #5, are guns built to pretty low price points. I'm also assuming you have plenty of guns, and don't NEED another gun, but mostly just WANT one that you'll enjoy, and I'm assuming you can afford the few extra bucks of a slightly more costly gun if you think it'll be worth the spend.

Based upon the hundred or so guns I've owned, and the additional hundred or two I've fired, I would recommend for consideration the following list of guns that I think would become favorites for most people once they owned them. You may or may not already own some of them:
1. Doesn't meet your threaded barrel requirement, but I like it so much I'd say it's worth wearing ear protection for -- Browning International Medalist / FN 150 (my favorite handgun overall to shoot, built with quality and craftsmanship that makes most modern .22 LR handguns feel like victims of cost-cutting and mass production)
2. Pre-lock/pre-MIM Smith & Wesson revolvers (I like the L Frame best, but it's mostly just a matter of choosing between the K, L, and N for the size that suits you.
3. CZ 75-based centerfire handguns (a 75B or SP-01 is plenty good to allow you to see if you like CZs, but there are also the higher-end models like Shadow and Tactical Sport)
4. BRNO or CZ 452 Rimfire rifles (or the later CZ models such as the 455 or 457, but my preference is for the earlier guns)

(Yes, I'm a big fan of many of the CZ guns, both rifle and handgun.)

 

[Spats McGee]

I suggest you move up in price point a little bit, and of course expecting more satisfaction with what you get for those extra funds. The candidates you list above, with the possible exception of #5, are guns built to pretty low price points. I'm also assuming you have plenty of guns, and don't NEED another gun, but mostly just WANT one that you'll enjoy, and I'm assuming you can afford the few extra bucks of a slightly more costly gun if you think it'll be worth the spend.

Yes, mostly. I'm really looking for a WANT gun, as I have most of my NEED guns pretty well covered. With that said, I've also got other, mandatory expenses (above my usual) right now, so my ability to raise my price point is limited. Not impossible, but limited.

Based upon the hundred or so guns I've owned, and the additional hundred or two I've fired, I would recommend for consideration the following list of guns that I think would become favorites for most people once they owned them. You may or may not already own some of them:
1. Doesn't meet your threaded barrel requirement, but I like it so much I'd say it's worth wearing ear protection for -- Browning International Medalist / FN 150 (my favorite handgun overall to shoot, built with quality and craftsmanship that makes most modern .22 LR handguns feel like victims of cost-cutting and mass production)

I could, at least in theory, have the barrel on one of those threaded....

2. Pre-lock/pre-MIM Smith & Wesson revolvers (I like the L Frame best, but it's mostly just a matter of choosing between the K, L, and N for the size that suits you.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm not much of a revolver guy.

3. CZ 75-based centerfire handguns (a 75B or SP-01 is plenty good to allow you to see if you like CZs, but there are also the higher-end models like Shadow and Tactical Sport)
4. BRNO or CZ 452 Rimfire rifles (or the later CZ models such as the 455 or 457, but my preference is for the earlier guns)

(Yes, I'm a big fan of many of the CZ guns, both rifle and handgun.)

Yeah, these do look good.