Post Office employees uninformed about firearms shipping laws?

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Spreadfire Arms

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Okay. I sent out a pistol via USPS Priority Mail this morning in Round Rock, Texas (Austin).

USPS mail regulations only allow "bona fide manufacturers or dealers" in firearms to send the firearms to each other using the US Postal Service. you need a Postal Service Form 1508 to go with it.

so i packaged the item up, unloaded, in a USPS Priority Mail shipping box, with signature confirmation and insurance.

it was addressed to another FFL. along with the 1508 Form was a signed copy of my FFL that read "File Copy for US Postal Service."

okay, so i go in and tell the counter guy i want to insure the item and hand him the Form 1508. he's never seen one before so he reads it and asks me if its unloaded, which i reply it is. he then asks me if it is taken apart, and i inform him it is not, but it is in the factory box as it left the factory and cannot be fired. i also add there is no ammuntion in the package.

he seems okay with it and goes to get another postal employee named Todd. Todd says it has to be either zip-tied or have the action open. i told Todd i am familiar with the regulations and that there is no such provision for the pistol to be zip-tied, have the action open, or disassembled, etc.

Todd then counters that, "Maybe not, but we can refuse to accept the package."

I counter with, "Okay, then let me discuss this with the Postmaster of this facility."

He replies, "You aren't even a licensed dealer." never mind my FFL was attached to the form. i corrected him on that.

He drops his argument. but then starts up with, "You know that's just common sense. It's for people's safety."

i told him, "this firearm is being shipped in the factory box that it came in, in the same fashion it came from the factory. it is unloaded, there is no conceivable way it can go off since there is no ammunition in it (it's also a double action pistol). i will in the future be more than happy to zip-tie it for you to make you happy, however, i am not going home to tear this package apart to put a zip-tie on it when it is not required by US Postal regs and come back to send it."

he mumbles something about how it's not safe or something.....couldn't make it all out.

I reply, "I'm not here to argue with you. i'm here to ship this pistol out legally and in the spirit of interstate commerce. the Postal Service allows me to do so, so long as i adhere to their guidelines. i can't possibly know what YOU personally deem as necessary or recommend."

his reply was, "We'll do it this time," inferring Todd was going to put a stop to this next time. :rolleyes:

oh well, has any other dealer found US Postal employees to add their own stipulations (as in, ones that aren't even part of the postal regs) when shipping a firearm? everyone seems to cringe when you say you're shipping a gun, like somehow, we have a magic teleporter that gets the guns from the manufacturers to the private citizens who own them.
 
"We'll do it this time,"
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Dang it Steve - you were lucky ''this time''!! :p

Sheesh - where do they find these people - they are almost the worst - the ones that have this notion that ''the gun'' is some animate object, imbued of evil intent that will manifest in an instant. In this case, from within a sealed container! :rolleyes:

Pity life has to be made so unnecessarily complex by the dufus brigade!!
 
i talked to another FFL in this area. although he doesn't really use USPS, he said it may be a good idea to write a letter to the Postmaster at that facility and see that his employees are more well-versed on the regulations and not making them up as they go along. ;)
 
Idiots. Seriously, I blame Hollywood. The Left misinforming the Left. "Oh it isn't safe to have an unloaded gun in there, it might go off! What if somebody drops the package!"
 
you could run over it with an 18-wheeler, throw it in a fire, then drop it out of a jet plane going mach 3, then light it on fire, have a fat man fart on it, and then kick it for 17 miles, and finally drop it down to the bottom of the Grand Canyon........

and it still won't go bang! :confused:
 
I work for the P.O. and I'm known to all the other employees as the resident"gun nut",so usually when I ship something they accept my word for it as far as legality.They are aware that I usually look it up ahead of time.However,there is a written complaint form,a copy of which goes to the District office.These forms WILL get acted upon,so please fill it out and send it.Just make sure the next time you see Todd,you tell him his opinionating is unprofessional,and ask him to provide the complaint form,along with his last name.The Postmaster will take care of it,too many "uninformed employee" complaints affects his (usually undeserved) bonuses...

Off topic,I had a series of interesting discussions with my PM regarding the legality of firearms on the property.I pointed out that the famous sign stating prohibition "conveniently" omits the "subsection C" referred to in the first sentence of the sign.I told him to look it up for himself(our discussion was regarding my carrying on my off days to check my P.O. box),and he came back later to remind me that it was still a "condition of employment" that I not carry on work days,but he conceded that I could carry off-duty in the publicly accessible areas.He goes with me about every other month to go shooting.It is refreshing to have a boss like that...
 
thanks kirkcdl,

i dont know how to go about getting a form but i will pay the post office a visit the next time i have to do business there (this week sometime) and get one of those forms. ill also sneak a peek at Todd's nametag if he happens to be there, otherwise, i'll just describe his physical appearance, which should be fine (glasses, WM, 40's, overweight, light colored hair, and glasses). im not sure there are alot of guys named Todd who were at the walk-in counter on the morning of 7/5/2005 around 940 am.......they should be able to figure him out if i cant... :)
 
you could run over it with an 18-wheeler, throw it in a fire, then drop it out of a jet plane going mach 3, then light it on fire, have a fat man fart on it, and then kick it for 17 miles, and finally drop it down to the bottom of the Grand Canyon........

and it still won't go bang!
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LMAO, I'll give you everything except the fat man farting on it.
 
My post office (Oak Hill, down near the 290/71 Y) is great. I had some minor problems once when an employee didn't know the rules ("We're the USPS, we can't ship handguns. You have to use Fedex or UPS for that"). I calmly explained that this was not the case and asked to speak to a supervisor, but instead the nice guy at the next counter helped me. After I was helped, he apologized for his coworker's lack of knowledge and explained that he would inform all of the other employees of the rules and regulations. Now they all seem to know exactly why I am there and they happily take my 1508.

I bought a gun out of state and mailed it back to myself and heard this one, "You took out the firing pin right?"

I just answered "The gun is not able to be fired in its current condition." They seemed happy with that.
 
I have had to, on two occasions, read the rules regarding fire arms transport to postal employees.

I have had the same stupid, uninformed questions asked by postal clerks and a couple of other questions that defiy logic or common sense. Once a clerk insisted that I remove the firing pin from a black powder rifle. I am not an ffl, but I never tried to ship a pistol as I know the rules.

I once walked into a post office with a plastic stock (no action, no barrel) from a 10/22 and the clerk saw it and bolted to the back room. She came back out saying she thought I was going to shoot everyone.

It should be referred to as the Utterly Stupid Postal Service. Give these people a rule and they will make a book of tortured logic out of it.
 
i think a "customary" trade shipment would be anything that constitutes you being "engaged in the business" of buying and selling firearms.

i sell guns. the ATF makes me get a license to do so. so the US Postal Service should take that into consideration.......right?
 
waterhouse wrote:

My post office (Oak Hill, down near the 290/71 Y) is great. I had some minor problems once when an employee didn't know the rules ("We're the USPS, we can't ship handguns. You have to use Fedex or UPS for that")
Click to expand...

i had the same experience at the Oak Hill Post Office a few years back. that lady was totally misinformed as well. i corrected her in her ways, now she is over at the Braker Lane post office.

the only place i've never had a problem is the McNeil Post Office near the Austin White Lime Co. that is a little rinky dink satellite office that is just fine with me sending rifles and pistols.
 
And what happens when you go in there with the pistol packed in one of those 'flat-rate' boxes.

and tell you want it shipped to ______ w/ $XXX insurance & Del.Confirm....

they ask, "anything liquid, perishable, or potentially hazardous in the package?"

I say "no" and pay .... and leave....




what happens then? What if they dont know there is a pistol in there? :neener:
 
they ask, "anything liquid, perishable, or potentially hazardous in the package?"

I say "no" and pay .... and leave....
Click to expand...

This reminds me of the answer I thought of for when cops pull you over and you're carrying and don't want to be hassled about it:

Cop: "Are you carrying any weapons that I need to be concerned about?"

Motorist: "<thinking, "...that you need to be concerned about?"> ... Uh, no, officer."

After all, I know that I'm not a threat to the officer, and don't plan to use my CCW to kill him, so... no -- I can answer that question in the negative and still be answering it in good faith. The way they seem to phrase that question, typically, leaves a subjectivity to it -- room for me to interpret whether the officer should be concerned.

-Jeffrey
 
I had a similar problem with UPS yesterday. The local store that ships FEDEX and UPS wouldnt ship a firearm because ATF regulations wouldnt permit it. They sent me to the cities main UPS Hub. They took it with much concern.

I think they have been told to adhere closely to the ATF regulations and then they dont teach them what they are. :fire:
 
I had one USPS woman tell me I couldn't ship Wilson magazines to Sweden. I said okay, show me. She digs out a book and looks up rules for shipping to Sweden. Nothing about magazines being prohibited but there was something for ammunition, naturally. She still wouldn't let me send them. I packed them up and took them to another PO and dropped them off.

Greg
 
Well, I tried. Once. About a month ago. I thought the Postal Worker was going to cry. She was trembling and paging furiously through the rule books...(You know how those evil guns can affect you with their death rays) At any rate, I asked her for some of the forms 1508? 1058? to fill out and she informed me they had to be filed with the postmaster and couldn't just be handed in. They had to be on file already. Asked to speak to the Postmaster - wasn't in. She called the "help(less) line for the PO - they weren't in either.

Went to UPS, where the nice lady said - "Sure - do the label like this - bring the box to this counter....Thank you and have a nice day, see you next time."

farther to the UPS bldg, but much, much more convenient.
 
FedEx seems to be a good choice. It costs a little more, but going to the main hub was easy and the staff there have no problems. Weighing, declare sending to FFL, insuring, and paying and I am out the door in minutes. I send priority overnight so I track online every move.
 
"I had one USPS woman tell me I couldn't ship Wilson magazines to Sweden."

Not a postal regulation but a violation of the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR).
 
USPS has been a PIA for shipping firearms for a LONG time.

Several decades ago, when gun shipments had to be labeled "FIREARM" in red letters one inch high, I heard that a couple of FFLs in the Chicago area had guns they'd shipped stolen en route. (Chicago - duh!)

So they started shipping one another scrap metal in pistol-sized boxes (easy for a USPS employee to slip under his coat) carrying a "FIREARM" label.

Did I mention these shipments of junk were HEAVILY insured?

As I understand the story USPS always paid off with no questions asked, not wanting to launch an inquiry which would turn up crooked USPS staffers . . .
 
Antique handgun/

Brings up a question. I've decided to sell a revolver I own on an Internet auction. I'm not a dealer license holder, or collector license holder. The revolver was made in 1882, classifying it as an antique. Is this mailable thru USPS? Also, does it have to be delivered to a licensed dealer?
 
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