Powder Recommendations for 38 Special +P 158 LSWCHP?

[Walkalong]

I have found that the CCI small pistol primer tends to give a little less velocity than the Winchester small pistol primer. Not a big deal, just adjust for it. I like the CCI in small cases like .32 ACP, .32 Long, etc. I am out of them right now, so I am using WSP, which I am perfectly happy with.

 

[Waywatcher]

Was able to get out to the range with my chrono and SP101 today!

I did some probing with powder choices in .38 +P with Speer's 135 GDHP.
6.8 AA#5 with CCI 550. Avg 837 with ES of 75.
6.4 Power Pistol with CCI 500. Avg 910, ES of 76.
7.0 HS-6 with Rem 1.5. Avg. 832, ES of 56. Acceptable ES, lower velocity than I hoped for. I will bump it up from 7.0 to 7.2 (max) and see if that gets me the 30 fps I'm hoping for.

Not really liking AA#5 in any of the .38 loads I've tried so far. I will give it another shot with std. primers and the max .38 load, both with 135 GD and 158 LHP.

HS-6 was disappointing with 158 lead, but shows the most promise with 135 Gold Dot. I used standard primers with the 135 but magnum with the lead. I might go back and try standard primers with lead.

Power Pistol definitely has more flash, bang and roar! Seems to have wide ESs all around though which is disappointing.

I tried a random load for fun that I think will make a great camping/hiking load in .357--180 XTP (hollow point) 12.0 grains 2400 with CCI 500 primer. Avg 972 with an ES of only 27! Subsonic with a heavy hollow point bullet that hits exactly at POA at 10 yards.

In closing, I haven't found a great FBI load duplicate yet...

 

[joneb]

Not really liking AA#5 in any of the .38 loads I've tried so far. I will give it another shot with std. primers and the max .38 load,

That's how I load AA#5, I get great results with WSP loaded to max. in 38spl.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Waywatcher,
IMO you should have use both standard and magnum primers with HS-6 and those GD bullets. Trying only standard primers in a load that most sources recommend a magnum primer isn't a good test. It's probably why the velocities you got were lower than you thought they would be. Magnum primers aid in complete burning of HS-6.

 

[Waywatcher]

I might, but Speer data indicates standard primer with HS-6 load in this case. Given the massive ES with magnum primers and 158 lead (137fps), I'm not optimistic about the outcome of magnum primers with HS-6. In fact, I'm going to go back and try your HS-6/158 lead with a std primer to see if it calms the variation.

HS-6 with 135 Gold Dot (with CCI 500 gave an ES of 56fps) was the best of the 3 powders I tried so far. It definitely beats the pants off of AA#5 for ease of use.

 

[easyrider604]

Powder Recommendations for 38 Special +P 158 LSWCHP?
I am looking especially for first hand experience others have had with this combination. I am considering loading 38 Special +P with 158 lead semi-wadcutter hollow points, trying to mimmick or duplicate the FBI load using a Speer 158 LSWCHP...........
Any advice?

I load 4.6 grains 700X under homecast 158 grain SWC from Lee TL 6-cavity mold. I chrono'd this load at more than 1,000 fps (average) out of a GP100 6 inch barrel.

I ran out of 700X couple months ago so I loaded 3.8 grains Clays under the same bullet. Feels similar to the 700X load, but that is subjective and may not translate to similar muzzle velocity.

When my Clays' gone, I will go with 4.6 Titegroup and see what that will do.

 

[Waywatcher]

That's how I load AA#5, I get great results with WSP loaded to max. in 38spl.

AA #5 will do what you want.

Hooray! I got some decent results today loading AA#5 just like that. I think that the max load of AA#5 is the winner in the FBI load duplication! (6.6 with Speer LHP and CCI 500.) It gave an average of 828fps and an ES of 60 from my snubby, with no shots falling below 800.

Power Pistol is good too, and I would say it is definitely a close second.

HS-6 was a disappointment. ESs of over 100, even over 120, were the norm. Powder to the rear would be over 900, powder to the front would be in the 700s. Magnum primer and standard primer alike.

 

[Waywatcher]

Update, I have been loading and shooting a bunch of Rim Rock 158 LHP over Power Pistol. It gives very good ES and averages. It might be more accurately described as a Buffalo Bore duplication. I find the buck and roar of power pistol to be a virtue, but that's just me.

In a 4" M15 the borderline +P (listed as the starting .38 +P load) gave an impressive 960 fps avg.
In a 5" M27 it gave 920 fps.
In a friend's 4.2" GP100 it gave 900 fps.

I think the 5.4 load is a safe, yet powerful and controllable load. I am going to try 5.0 just to see what it does.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm not telling you not to use Power Pistol but shooting HS-6 with a standard primer instead of a magnum primer is not a fair test. I know most current manuals don't specify using a magnum primer with HS-6 in a .38 Special but they don't recommend using a magnum primer with any powders in the .38 Special. In turn they use magnum primers with every powder when loading something with magnum in it's name like the .357 Magnum. Why use a standard primer with HS-6 in the 38 and a magnum primer with HS-6 in the 357?

Unfortunately current manuals don't do the right thing. Look back into the older Speer manuals and you will see they use a magnum primer with HS-5, HS-6 and HS-7.

 

[Waywatcher]

I tried HS-6 with both magnum and standard primers. Neither one was impressive for 158 LHP loads. Huge extreme spreads, dirty.

Power Pistol gets more velocity, is cleaner and doesn't require a magnum primer. My magnum powder is 2400 so I stock up only on standard primers. But honestly, if there was a performance improvement to be had by using HS-6 I would deal with another type of primer.

 

[murf]

waywatcher,

what type of crimp are you using, and how light or heavy?

murf

 

[Waywatcher]

Using Walkalong's pictures as a guide, my roll crimps are probably medium, or medium-heavy.

See Walkalong's pictures in this thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=469815&page=5

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I tried HS-6 with both magnum and standard primers. Neither one was impressive for 158 LHP loads. Huge extreme spreads, dirty.

Power Pistol gets more velocity, is cleaner and doesn't require a magnum primer. My magnum powder is 2400 so I stock up only on standard primers. But honestly, if there was a performance improvement to be had by using HS-6 I would deal with another type of primer.

HS-6 is another one of those powders which cleans up considerably when you approach the upper limits of the pressure range. Using a magnum primer shrinks the SD numbers to single digits most times. I'm surprised you didn't achieve good results with HS-6 but then again, all those powders wouldn't be on the market if everyone liked the same handful of powders...

 

[Cheetos]

I like Clays or Titegroup for .38 special.

 

[ljnowell]

Update, I have been loading and shooting a bunch of Rim Rock 158 LHP over Power Pistol. It gives very good ES and averages. It might be more accurately described as a Buffalo Bore duplication. I find the buck and roar of power pistol to be a virtue, but that's just me.

In a 4" M15 the borderline +P (listed as the starting .38 +P load) gave an impressive 960 fps avg.
In a 5" M27 it gave 920 fps.
In a friend's 4.2" GP100 it gave 900 fps.

I think the 5.4 load is a safe, yet powerful and controllable load. I am going to try 5.0 just to see what it does.

I've been loading 158gr SWCs and SWCHPs over 6gr of power pistol for quite awhile. Its definately a stout load.