Powder Recommendations for 38 Special +P 158 LSWCHP?

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ArchAngelCD, I did a bunch more research and assume you are the same username on S&W forum?

At this point, I think I want to try HS-6 and AA #5; hopefully the local Scheel's has them both. Powder is cheap; a pound of it costs the same as a meager hundred Gold Dot bullets.

By chance, did you do any experimentation with 135 GD and HS-6, or was it best with AA #5?

Also, how is HS-6 (or AA#5 for that matter) for cleanness and leading in your guns(s)?
 
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I went to my local reloading component supply store (read: Scheel's), and they were out of HS-6. (I would have also needed to get magnum primers to get best performance with this powder anyway.) I did pick up a pound each of Accurate #5 and Power Pistol. I am looking forward to trying them both!

I also received my order of bullets from Midway, so I've got 1000 Speer LSWCHPs to play with. I will report back with results!
 
Waywatcher said:
ArchAngelCD, I did a bunch more research and assume you are the same username on S&W forum?

At this point, I think I want to try HS-6 and AA #5; hopefully the local Scheel's has them both. Powder is cheap; a pound of it costs the same as a meager hundred Gold Dot bullets.

By chance, did you do any experimentation with 135 GD and HS-6, or was it best with AA #5?

Also, how is HS-6 (or AA#5 for that matter) for cleanness and leading in your guns(s)?
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Yes, I'm the same ArchAngelCD on both forums and a few more too.

Actually, I didn't try HS-6 to replicate the Speer 135gr load because a Speer Rep said I would probably get the best results using AA#5. When I got exactly what I was looking for with AA#5 I stopped right there and didn't do any further testing on that load. I always intend to do more testing but never seem to get to it... lol

I get no leading at all with HS-6 in my FBI replica loads.
 
I loaded up 20 rounds with each powder. Since I only own .357s and I didn't feel like messing around, I went just shy of the "max" .38 load with each.

6.5 grains AA#5
5.9 grains Power Pistol

both in Starline .38+P brass with CCI 500 primer and Speer LSWCHP

Power Pistol definitely gets the nod in the ease-of-use category. Its 5.9 grains takes up more physical space than 6.5 of AA#5 in the case decreasing the likelihood of a double charge. Both metered great. Accurate showed some static sticking issues; Power Pistol showed none. (My other powders that I use all the time show no static issues.)

Range Report to follow another day...
 
Actually, Alliant lists a Max charge of 6.0gr Power Pistol under a 158gr LSWC bullet so if you're not happy with the accuracy you can bump the charge ever so slightly. Hey, you never know...

I see you didn't get a chance to try HS-6 in your FBI load. The data I have is over current published loads so I don't like to post it on the open forum but it's been estimated to be right around 19,800 psi, just under the 20,000 psi limits. My load form a 2" barrel averages 889 fps.

PM inbound...
 
I was able to get out to the range today in the 20 degree (F) weather.

The Power Pistol load seemed to burn cleaner than the Accurate, which left more powder residue in the bore. Both loads seemed to lead to a mild/medium degree--it leaded up to a point and then didn't get much worse. The Power Pistol load seemed to lead less, and hit perfectly at point of aim at 10 yards. (Accurate was about an inch or two off.) I don't own a chronograph yet, but I would guess that the Power Pistol load is also going faster; it had a little more buck and roar.

I am going to pick the Power Pistol load until I can try HS-6. Thanks for the special info, ArchAngelCD!
 
Both loads seemed to lead to a mild/medium degree--it leaded up to a point and then didn't get much worse.
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I see you are using Speer bullets. Those are soft and swedged. I am using Hornady bullets. They are also soft but I think the lube they use is different. I didn't get leading with HS-6 and that load is hotter than the loads you are using.
 
I have been using Hogdon Titegroup ever since. Uses very little powder and is not case position sensitive. I run the same +p load in all my 38's and 357's using a Hornady 158 lswchp.
Click to expand...

Htreinen would you mind sharing your Titegroup 38 special+P recipe?
 
I have tried a few different combos now and wanted to report back with the results. I was super excited to try out my new chronograph and DAO SP101 with a 2.25" barrel...

.38 +P
Speer 158 LSWCHP
ArchAngelCD's HS-6 load with CCI 550
ES of 137, from 770s to lower 900s. Avg. about 840. Half were powder forward, half powder rearward. :( I launched a cylinder without any muzzle tipping and got an ES around 75. Not sure what's up.

5.9 grains Power Pistol with CCI 500. (Regular .38+P)
ES of 93, from 810s to lower 900s. Avg. about 855. Half were powder forward, half powder rearward. Better, but still not great. I launched a cylinder full without any muzzle tipping and got a ES of 13.

The trail boss load was around 715 avg. ES around 40, with a low of 699.
 
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been using Hogdon Titegroup ever since. Uses very little powder and is not case position sensitive
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Actually, as far as velocities are concerned, it is about average in the "position sensitive" department. Test it with a chrono and see. :)
 
I started using AA#5 about 7yrs ago as a replacement for Unique for .45 acp. This stuff is the bee's knees for upper end accurate .45 acp.
I wanted a replacement for Unique and it is a good choice for warm loaded .45 acp.
Well when I tried AA#5 with 158gr LSWC for .38 spl. I was disappointed with partially burnt powder that tied up the action, the charge was 5.6gr
I found that a charge of 6.0-6.2gr of AA#5 with standard small pistol primers worked very well in my S&W 10-5
I would not recommend this powder to a new reloader for .38spl as W231/hp-38 is a better choice.
 
Waywatcher said:
I have tried a few different combos now and wanted to report back with the results. I was super excited to try out my new chronograph and DAO SP101 with a 2.25" barrel...

.38 +P
Speer 158 LSWCHP
ArchAngelCD's HS-6 load with CCI 550
ES of 137, from 770s to lower 900s. Avg. about 840. Half were powder forward, half powder rearward. :( I launched a cylinder without any muzzle tipping and got an ES around 75. Not sure what's up.

5.9 grains Power Pistol with CCI 500. (Regular .38+P)
ES of 93, from 810s to lower 900s. Avg. about 855. Half were powder forward, half powder rearward. Better, but still not great. I launched a cylinder full without any muzzle tipping and got a ES of 13.

The trail boss load was around 715 avg. ES around 40, with a low of 699.
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I'm very surprised that you had so much trouble with that HS-6 load. Sorry it didn't work out for you. The only reloaders who had trouble with that load were using a standard primers but you use a magnum primer as recommended. Very strange...
 
I think my next exploration is going to be recreating the .357 Speer Gold Dot Short barrel load. 135 grain GDHP SB at 990fps. Thinking Unique to start things off.
 
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4756 and PP are too slow for the 38. I think PB burns clean and doesnt smoke under Speer lead bullets, having shot a bunch of HBWC with 3.3 grains at about 800 FPS. I'm sure you can work up a load with your bullet that will make you happy. Also, PB is twice as bulky as Bullseye due to it's porous base, yet it meters the same.
 
I think my next exploration is going to be recreating the .357 Speer Gold Dot Short barrel load. 135 grain GDHP SB at 990fps. Thinking Unique to start things off.
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Two folks here who have done it like AA #5.
 
Speer doesn't list any data for it. Do you just work your way up to 990 fps from the .38 +P loading data while using magnum brass? Edit to add: Are you talking about the .38 +P 135 GD load at 860 fps?

The 135 GD/unique load (~6.9 +/- 0.1 grains) shot to POA at 7 yards but it was too close to dusk when I got to the range to chrono it.
 
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I find it odd that AA#5 can work well for 38 spl. It was designed for 45 acp and very dense which seems to be a advantage for acp cartridges with limited case capacity, and one would think a disadvantage for a old low pressure cavernous cartridges such as the .38spl.

According to this info AA#5 is as dense as it gets;
http://www.tacticoolproducts.com/powder.pdf

As I stated above AA#5 can work in .38spl but I feel it should be considered a +P powder as standard 38spl loads can disappointing at lower pressure.
 
The factory 135gr Speer Gold Dot .38 Special +P ammo is rated @860 fps from a 2" barrel. I gave gotten outstanding results duplication that load using AA#5. Actually it's the only load I still use AA#5 for. I'm able to generate the same velocity and felt recoil with less than a full charge of powder. I use 6.8gr AA#5 under that GD bullet or a 140gr Hornady XTP/HP bullet.
 
Thanks,

During the great primer shortage of 2008 I found that either CCI 500 or WSP worked equally well.

I have found that in .357 mag. 8.2gr of AA#5 with a Raineer plated 140gr RNFP COL 1.585" taper crimped, shot extremely well in my 2.75" Ruger Sec. Six.
 
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