Power Pistol?

[ArchAngelCD]

Powder Valley, Recob's Target Shop and plenty of other vendors have Alliant powders like Promo at $112 for 8 lbs and with free/discounted HazMat on promotions.

Since last year, none of local stores carried new Alliant Sport Pistol but I got it from Powder Valley before anyone else. Even with shipping, final delivered cost was lower.

I know all about Powder Valley, I used them a lot before the last shortage hit. I'm talking about buying one or two pounds of powder to try out or for specialty use, not buying several 8lb jugs.

I do buy some rifle powders and W231 in bulk from Powder Valley but I'm not going to buy 8lbs of a powder I never used just to try it. Additionally, I don't always need 8lbs of a powder I'm using for one or two smaller applications like small numbers of .38 Special +P SD ammo.

 

[TheDomFather]

I want to thank Paul for keeping us informed about Alliant powders.

I like Alliant powders but where I live they are not easily available. The Northeast of PA is IMR country so I use Hodgdon/IMR/Winchester powders. Western powders, Nobel powders and VV powders aren't available either.

As mentioned powder valley is a great place to get powders at excellent prices as well as mid south shooters supply.
Dom

 

[mjsdwash]

its a great powder but the published velocities are a fantasy. I found it similar to unique, but more consistent. Works well in just about everything. Oh yea, as others have said, its loud and bright. I'll add it does not do a whole lot Bullseye wont do with smaller charges. Maybe 50FPS more from one max load to another from my results. Longer barrels probably make a much bigger gain.

 

[PhillySoldier]

I went to ladder test some Power Pistol loads yesterday. Results chronoed from Labradar, shooting from a ransom rest at 25 yards. I was attempting to test 6.0 to 6.6g of PP, 115 hornady fmjs, OAL 1.12". They shot excellent groups at 1.5-1.75". However they were running near 100 fps hotter than the published velocities. 6.0g averaged a little over 1200 fps.

Im figuring I gotta decrease that by 0.7 - 0.8g. The book lists about 50 fps difference per 0.4g but then again the book was already wrong w the above. Any suggestions on the range I should try and in what increments?

 

[Toprudder]

Any suggestions on the range I should try and in what increments?

I've gone down as low as 5.3gn with Xtreme plated 115gn bullets, seated 1.140", where I got just over 1000fps. I generally load to 5.5gn for my wife, as she likes the low recoil loads.

For RMR 115 fmj, I have to seat those relatively short, at 1.100". I've tried those from 5.9gn (1208fps from 4.75" barrel) to 6.6gn (1274fps). I found the best load from my 16" carbine to be 6.1gn, at 1480 fps.

 

[PhillySoldier]

Thanks Toprudder. Thats what I was estimating. The book lists 50 fps per 0.4g increments. If thats actually correct, I figure 5.3 should put me around 1100-1150. But then again the book also listed everything as about 100 fps less than I was getting w the 6.0g. Now I got about 40 bullets to pull as well as making up a new load and testing all over. I was amazed though at the better groups I was getting out of it compared to all my testing w TiteGroup powder. Im hoping I the groupings dont decrease much as I lighten the loads up.

 

[someguy2800]

I started using power pistol a few months ago and have gone through 2 pounds. I love it. My usual 9mm load is 5.3 grains with a 124, either plated or FMJ. This is not at all hot. With 147 grain bullets I've loaded down as far as 4.1 grains. Power pistol seems to work well over a very wide range. It meters nice, is not too dirty, and it is an extremely accurate powder as well.

Shooting action pistol one night someone video'd over my shoulder of me shooting my 5" 1911 and the fireballs were impressive on the video. I have never perceived any flash while being behind the gun though.

 

[Toprudder]

Thanks Toprudder. Thats what I was estimating. The book lists 50 fps per 0.4g increments. If thats actually correct, I figure 5.3 should put me around 1100-1150. But then again the book also listed everything as about 100 fps less than I was getting w the 6.0g. Now I got about 40 bullets to pull as well as making up a new load and testing all over. I was amazed though at the better groups I was getting out of it compared to all my testing w TiteGroup powder. Im hoping I the groupings dont decrease much as I lighten the loads up.

I found some of the lower charges were actually pretty accurate, but it depends a lot on the bullet. With the carbine, the groups definitely opened up from 6.1 to 6.6gn, but rifle is a much different beast than pistol.

 

[Dudedog]

Sort of off thread but for .380 I really like AA#2, meters great in .380 size charges and shoots well to.
Haven't tried it yet but people report excellent metering with Sport Pistol.
I think something in the AA#2/HP38/Sport Pistol burn speed range would be better for anything less than FP .380s.
If I was after the most velocity I could get out of .380 I would choose something slower around BE86, PP, CFE-P speed.
PP shot well for me in 9mm I just didn't care for the flash/muzzle blast. (Longshot is worse, but if you want to be loud and flashy.....)

 

[enine]

I tried PP in 9mm before I got my chronometer, didn't do so well, but I was using Berrys plated. I'm guessing it was too fast based on http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=1&powderid=8&cartridge=23
I either need to try some other bullets or find another load data source.

 

[vaalpens]

I started using power pistol a few months ago and have gone through 2 pounds. I love it. My usual 9mm load is 5.3 grains with a 124, either plated or FMJ.

I also like PowerPistol in 9mm and found accurate loads around 5.3gr and 5.6gr with the COL I use and a 124gr bullet. My velocity out of a 3.9" barrel is below 1100fps, so even thin plated bullets are still accurate.

 

[someguy2800]

I tried PP in 9mm before I got my chronometer, didn't do so well, but I was using Berrys plated. I'm guessing it was too fast based on http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=1&powderid=8&cartridge=23
I either need to try some other bullets or find another load data source.

I’ve shot PP with 3 types of Berry’s and they all shot well for me. Some things just can’t be explained. 700x shoots superb in everything except my 1911. No idea why

 

[someguy2800]

I also like PowerPistol in 9mm and found accurate loads around 5.3gr and 5.6gr with the COL I use and a 124gr bullet. My velocity out of a 3.9" barrel is below 1100fps, so even thin plated bullets are still accurate.

My favorite thing about PP aside from the great accuracy is it so forgiving on charge weight. My powder measure drops it within .1 grain anyway, but I can go up a half a grain, and down 1 full grain and it will still function my guns and shoot near the same point of aim. Never seen such a forgiving powder. Case fill is perfect for a 9mm too. I’m sure BE86 would be similar but nobody here carries it. Planning to try it in more calibers when I get some other stuff shot up.

 

[Toprudder]

My favorite thing about PP aside from the great accuracy is it so forgiving on charge weight. My powder measure drops it within .1 grain anyway, but I can go up a half a grain, and down 1 full grain and it will still function my guns and shoot near the same point of aim. Never seen such a forgiving powder. Case fill is perfect for a 9mm too. I’m sure BE86 would be similar but nobody here carries it. Planning to try it in more calibers when I get some other stuff shot up.

For some of the calibers (9, 40) I get similar results between BE86 and Power Pistol, but it has been my observation that BE86 works better than PP in low pressure rounds, like 45acp and 38spl. In addition, PP seems to be somewhat position sensitive in 38spl, where BE86 is not.

 

[vaalpens]

My favorite thing about PP aside from the great accuracy is it so forgiving on charge weight. My powder measure drops it within .1 grain anyway, but I can go up a half a grain, and down 1 full grain and it will still function my guns and shoot near the same point of aim. Never seen such a forgiving powder. Case fill is perfect for a 9mm too. I’m sure BE86 would be similar but nobody here carries it. Planning to try it in more calibers when I get some other stuff shot up.

Power Pistol is definitely slower than BE-86. A while ago I did some load workup with Xtreme 124gr FP plated bullets. The following chart shows the loads I did with the green highlights the best accuracy. The chart shows the difference in velocity between BE-86 and PP for the powder charges. The overall best accuracy was the PP 5.6gr load resulting in a .47" grouping at 15yards.

 

[PhillySoldier]

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By your chart, I listed above the velocity differences from one grain to the next for the Power Pistol. It doesnt seem to be very consistent. I have already previously worked out that it should be a 12.5 fps per grain ( for the 115 fmjs and had deduced how much I needed to lower my charges for my next test. That may have just shot that theory to hell

 

[vaalpens]

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By your chart, I listed above the velocity differences from one grain to the next for the Power Pistol. It doesnt seem to be very consistent. I have already previously worked out that it should be a 12.5 fps per grain ( for the 115 fmjs and had deduced how much I needed to lower my charges for my next test. That may have just shot that theory to hell

You have to realize that the velocities listed are Average velocities for 5 shots only. Each load has a different Extreme Spread and there are some overlap between the loads. The difference is the loads are only .1gr (one tenth of a grain). All the loads are weighed on a beam scale, so the weight is only as accurate as the quality of the scale, and how well my eyes check each weight. Then you have the quality of the chrono, light conditions etc.

I use the chart to give me a quick visual of my performing loads and to compare different powders. So in the case of BE-86 vs PP, it tells me that if I test a new bullet that my BE-86 starting load will probably be lower than then my PP starting load. Just another data point to validate load data from a new source.

 

[PhillySoldier]

Understood. I gotta drop my velocity down about 90 fps from my last test though, so hoping i can get it done without another crazy large test in a wide increment range

 

[someguy2800]

Power Pistol is definitely slower than BE-86. A while ago I did some load workup with Xtreme 124gr FP plated bullets. The following chart shows the loads I did with the green highlights the best accuracy. The chart shows the difference in velocity between BE-86 and PP for the powder charges. The overall best accuracy was the PP 5.6gr load resulting in a .47" grouping at 15yards.
View attachment 792225

Good info, I have read somewhere that Alliant says they are the same base formula except for the flash suppressant in BE86. Perhaps the flash suppressant alters the burn rate, or mabey the cutter speed is also changed to shorten the flake thickness of BE86. In any case similar, not same, good to know.

 

[someguy2800]

Understood. I gotta drop my velocity down about 90 fps from my last test though, so hoping i can get it done without another crazy large test in a wide increment range

Why do you need to drop your velocities 90 FPS?

 

[PhillySoldier]

My ladder test started higher than expected last weekend. First rung had an avg velocity of 1225. Would like to get it down to about 1130-1150.

 

[Blue68f100]

You may or may not have to reduce your load. Take a close look at how they arrived at there velocity. If they used a test barrel it will be different, length normally longer, OAL, bullet used.

I have several guns that will give me higher numbers than what the factory did. And some that run slower too. It's all about the details.

 

[vaalpens]

Good info, I have read somewhere that Alliant says they are the same base formula except for the flash suppressant in BE86. Perhaps the flash suppressant alters the burn rate, or mabey the cutter speed is also changed to shorten the flake thickness of BE86. In any case similar, not same, good to know.

Following is what we received from Alliant regarding Unique/BE-86/PP when BE-86 came out:

Yes, BE-86 is certainly very similar burn speed to our Unique(R), and Universal was designed to be a clone of Unique, so if A=B, and B=C, then A=C.
No, Power Pistol and BE-86 are most definitely not the same. Nor is BE-86 just Power Pistol with flash suppressant added. Power Pistol is the canister version of BE-84, which is slower burning than BE-86, which is the canister version of BE-86. They are not that far apart, and the formulations are identical, but the deterrent percentage is higher for Power Pistol (BE-84) compared to BE-86.

 

[PhillySoldier]

Yeah thats what already messed me up. I was going by the book listed grains and velocity and im shooting faster out of my 4.5" barrel gun. Thats why i have to lower now. It shot great but i dont like being around max pressure

 

[someguy2800]

I would have no qualms whatsoever about shooting the load you listed but if you are not seeing pressure signs but do whatever helps you sleep at night.