lobo9er
Member
been praticing 10 yards. very humbling shooting a snubby for first time. i would like to stretch out to 25 yards by summers ends.
practical snub nose range?
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GojuBrian
Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_b3dAbKoJ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tied-t1fFsk&feature=related
They can do it.
I expect to make a good 2-3" group at 15yrds with a 2" revolver atleast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tied-t1fFsk&feature=related
They can do it.
I expect to make a good 2-3" group at 15yrds with a 2" revolver atleast.
KBintheSLC
Member
I agree that anything out to 25 yards is a good practice range for any handgun. With my snubby, I can usually keep all 5 rounds in about an 8" circle at 25 yards using double action off hand. Not great accuracy, but good enough to hit a torso. If I use single action, I might shrink the group to about 5" at 25 yards. Never tried my snubby farther than that.
The Bushmaster
Member
Just because it has a short barrel doesn't mean that it can't reach out and touch someone...
There are snubbies, and then they're SNUBBIES!
Current ultra-compact snubbies along the lines (and including) Smith & Wesson's J-frames that have less then optimal double-action trigger pulls, can be effective out to 50 yards - but as you reduce the weight and increase the cartridge powder into a Magnum range this distance drops if you want fast but accurate repeat shots.
Increase the revolver's size and weight to a steel Colt Detective Special, S&W M&P/Model 10, or Ruger SP-101 and K-zone hits on a B-27 silhouette target placed at 100 yards is easily possible, especially if you have one of the long-action Smith & Wessons.
Machine rest testing of revolvers in a machine rest proved long ago that snubbies are as accurate as those with longer barrels. Any lack thereof is caused by the shooter, not the gun.
Current ultra-compact snubbies along the lines (and including) Smith & Wesson's J-frames that have less then optimal double-action trigger pulls, can be effective out to 50 yards - but as you reduce the weight and increase the cartridge powder into a Magnum range this distance drops if you want fast but accurate repeat shots.
Increase the revolver's size and weight to a steel Colt Detective Special, S&W M&P/Model 10, or Ruger SP-101 and K-zone hits on a B-27 silhouette target placed at 100 yards is easily possible, especially if you have one of the long-action Smith & Wessons.
Machine rest testing of revolvers in a machine rest proved long ago that snubbies are as accurate as those with longer barrels. Any lack thereof is caused by the shooter, not the gun.
snooperman
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I practice from 3-7 yards with my snubbies....
about once a week. I do not believe one can be robbed , mugged or raped at 25 yards and my farmhouse rooms are not 75 feet. At those distances I would grab my pump 12 ga shotgun. I am sure each of us can justify practicing at different distances. Heck, at age 70 my eyes are not that great to be shooting a snubby with those puny sights at that distance. In fact I do not even use the sights on my snubbies. I just draw and point-shoot. My wife does the same and she is pretty good with her little 38.
about once a week. I do not believe one can be robbed , mugged or raped at 25 yards and my farmhouse rooms are not 75 feet. At those distances I would grab my pump 12 ga shotgun. I am sure each of us can justify practicing at different distances. Heck, at age 70 my eyes are not that great to be shooting a snubby with those puny sights at that distance. In fact I do not even use the sights on my snubbies. I just draw and point-shoot. My wife does the same and she is pretty good with her little 38.
Personally I think of handguns as spitting distance weapons. If the opponent is further away, you should be rapidly advancing to the rear before any bullets start flying.
But as for the accuracy of a Snubbie. I shoot everything starting at 25 yards and I do it offhand. For no other reason than range limitations and that’s the way I do it. It takes work, concentration, discipline to keep all my shots on a 12” gong at 25 yards. Sometimes I get nice clusters out of 50 rounds. Sometimes I miss.
When I move that gong target out to 50 yards, I am lucky to hit 2 out of six, very lucky if I hit three times out of six at 50 yards.
Just lengthen the barrel to 4” and I will regularly hit 4/5/6 times out of six at 50 yards. Unless I have developed a severe flinch by the time the gong target is moved out to 50 yards.
Then I will regularly hit the planet earth 4/5/6 times out of six.
But as for the accuracy of a Snubbie. I shoot everything starting at 25 yards and I do it offhand. For no other reason than range limitations and that’s the way I do it. It takes work, concentration, discipline to keep all my shots on a 12” gong at 25 yards. Sometimes I get nice clusters out of 50 rounds. Sometimes I miss.
When I move that gong target out to 50 yards, I am lucky to hit 2 out of six, very lucky if I hit three times out of six at 50 yards.
Just lengthen the barrel to 4” and I will regularly hit 4/5/6 times out of six at 50 yards. Unless I have developed a severe flinch by the time the gong target is moved out to 50 yards.
Then I will regularly hit the planet earth 4/5/6 times out of six.
Practical snub nose range is any range that you can accurately shoot a snubby at. If you are willing to put in the time to hit at 25 then your practical range is 25. If you are happy with 10, then 10 is your practical range. It's not the snubby. They are very accurate. It's the short sight radius and light weight that makes them harder to shoot. So your practical snubby range is up to you.
OP
OP
lobo9er
Member
so am I the only one that has been humbled by the snubby I'm new at it but havent given up yet i"m sure with time the groups will shrink.
I'm new at it but havent given up yet i"m sure with time the groups will shrink.MCgunner
Member
I have found the GUN to be quite accurate. Normally with my old eyes I can group 3" at 25 yards with those I've owned. Sight radius limits the ability of the shooter more than does the size or weight of the gun. But, I can still hit the 6" plates at 25 yards off hand just fine. My current Taurus 85SSUL has an awesome trigger both DA and SA, very smooth and controllable.
All it takes for the shooter to improve is practice. If you put in the time, the little gun will reward you. If you can routinely hit smallish objects at 25 yards or further, it does wonders for your confidence at realistic self defense ranges and it's much more fun to practice that way. Sure, practice draw and fire at defense ranges, but don't get stuck in a rut.
All it takes for the shooter to improve is practice. If you put in the time, the little gun will reward you. If you can routinely hit smallish objects at 25 yards or further, it does wonders for your confidence at realistic self defense ranges and it's much more fun to practice that way. Sure, practice draw and fire at defense ranges, but don't get stuck in a rut.
FoMoGo
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I usually practice with my 2" .44 special at 40 yards before I leave the range.
Jim
Jim
snooperman
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lobo9er--You did say "practical snub nose ranges" .. didn't you??
Practical for self defense?? Well that is what this gun was desined for. To me contact distance out to 7 yards is about it. Now when you start talking about 25-50 yards with a snubby you are stretching its function , to say the least.At those distances I would rather use my 4" or 6" guns with sights designed for that range. For 50- 100 yards I would use my Dan Wessons. To me that is "PRACTICAL" uses. I am sure my great grandson can shoot his 22 I gave him at 100 yards , but is it really practical at those ranges? My 2 cents.
Practical for self defense?? Well that is what this gun was desined for. To me contact distance out to 7 yards is about it. Now when you start talking about 25-50 yards with a snubby you are stretching its function , to say the least.At those distances I would rather use my 4" or 6" guns with sights designed for that range. For 50- 100 yards I would use my Dan Wessons. To me that is "PRACTICAL" uses. I am sure my great grandson can shoot his 22 I gave him at 100 yards , but is it really practical at those ranges? My 2 cents.
MCgunner
Member
If he enjoys it, it's practical. And, I've shot rabbits with a snub at 20+ yards when I had nothing else "practical" with me. I shot a hog in the forehead at 15 yards with a 3" .357 mag I was carrying that day when I didn't have anything "practical" on me. Hey, define the word...
When I shot PPC, we often shot the course with our Off duty revolvers. 2 and 3" revolvers out to 50 yards. It was pretty revealing how the scores differed from using our 6" PPC custom revolvers. For some of us the scores differed a great deal. For others, not so much.
Marvin KNox
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I'm happy with a cylinder full going into 6" at 7 yards while pulling through continuously in double action. This with relatively quick double tap shots.
I'm very happy if I can get a cylinder full going into a pie plate at 10 yards in true double action shooting.
I like to shoot a few out at 15 yards with a slower "staged" trigger using either of my Centennial model Smith and Wessons.
If I hit a pie plate more times than not out there at 15 yards I go home from the range fairly happy with myself (center mass area to my way of thinking).
I've slung enough down range farther out to know that it's just not my thing. If the bad guy is farther than 15 yards I'll either run away or run toward him to close the gap.
I'd be wasting my time and emptying my cylinder for no effective reason over 15 yards. If I feel that I really MUST engage the bad guy it will be at a decent range, especially since I don't do reloads.
I'm very happy if I can get a cylinder full going into a pie plate at 10 yards in true double action shooting.
I like to shoot a few out at 15 yards with a slower "staged" trigger using either of my Centennial model Smith and Wessons.
If I hit a pie plate more times than not out there at 15 yards I go home from the range fairly happy with myself (center mass area to my way of thinking).
I've slung enough down range farther out to know that it's just not my thing. If the bad guy is farther than 15 yards I'll either run away or run toward him to close the gap.
I'd be wasting my time and emptying my cylinder for no effective reason over 15 yards. If I feel that I really MUST engage the bad guy it will be at a decent range, especially since I don't do reloads.
XavierBreath
Member
I'm aware that the snubbie is capable of making 25 yard shots. There are some guys that make amazing shots with snub nosed revolvers at great distances. If I work at it long enough, I might be reliably accurate at 25 yards with it myself. That's not the thing though.
For me, a snubbie is a close in weapon. It's a fighting gun, and a darned good one. It has stood the test of time for a reason. It's a weapon that fits the problem. It has some great attributes. It conceals well, is extremely reliable, fast on target, and it will fire with the muzzle jammed into the ribs of a man beating the snot out of you.
And you see, that is the issue, really. Almost all fights, and most lethal encounters start at a range of ten yards or less. Conversation distance. I carry the snubbie for personal protection, not exhibition shooting. I figure the chances of someone standing in the open, shooting at me from 25 yards is pretty remote. By contrast, having to defend myself from a range of fists and lead pipes to 20 feet against a moving aggressor while I am moving myself has a higher probability. As a civilian, having to defend myself from my back after being hit in the head from behind is also fairly high. Thus I train in that fashion. I practice at ten yards, often less. I practice from concealment against a timer, while moving. If possible, I use a target that moves as well. I practice shooting one handed, weak handed, and from the supine position.
The most important consideration for me is five shots to a reload, and a cartridge that is on the relative low range of effectiveness. I want shots in my target fast from concealment. I want this done before he gets shots in me. I want to be getting myself towards cover for a reload or an escape at the same time that I am defending myself.
If I am forced to deal with a maniac with an AR at 25 yards, then for me it's a question of tactics. Take cover. Either advance behind cover to a more effective range, or draw them in to effective range and ambush them. But...... at 25 yards in most environments that an attack would occur in, escape is a more healthy option than engaging the aggressor.
But then, fighting is always a question of tactics, in theory at least. Maximize the effectiveness of your weapon of choice while diminishing the VA's effectiveness. The subject is engaging to discuss, and it provides a guide of action and training. Mike Tyson once said everyone has a plan until they are punched in the mouth. He was right about that, and he knew fighting pretty well. Thing is, Iron Mike wouldn't want to face a maniac with an AR at 25 yards with only his fists. He would die if the maniac had only an ounce of skill or luck. If Tyson could take cover behind a brick wall and ambush the maniac when he came looking for him though, he might stand a chance. If he could stay inside the arc of the AR's barrel as he beat the maniac's face to a pulp, he would likely live. I strive for the ferocity of Tyson when attacked, but I don't have his strength, endurance or skill with my fists. So I carry a gun instead. Chances are, a snubbie up the nose will be a passable substitute.
For me, a snubbie is a close in weapon. It's a fighting gun, and a darned good one. It has stood the test of time for a reason. It's a weapon that fits the problem. It has some great attributes. It conceals well, is extremely reliable, fast on target, and it will fire with the muzzle jammed into the ribs of a man beating the snot out of you.
And you see, that is the issue, really. Almost all fights, and most lethal encounters start at a range of ten yards or less. Conversation distance. I carry the snubbie for personal protection, not exhibition shooting. I figure the chances of someone standing in the open, shooting at me from 25 yards is pretty remote. By contrast, having to defend myself from a range of fists and lead pipes to 20 feet against a moving aggressor while I am moving myself has a higher probability. As a civilian, having to defend myself from my back after being hit in the head from behind is also fairly high. Thus I train in that fashion. I practice at ten yards, often less. I practice from concealment against a timer, while moving. If possible, I use a target that moves as well. I practice shooting one handed, weak handed, and from the supine position.
The most important consideration for me is five shots to a reload, and a cartridge that is on the relative low range of effectiveness. I want shots in my target fast from concealment. I want this done before he gets shots in me. I want to be getting myself towards cover for a reload or an escape at the same time that I am defending myself.
If I am forced to deal with a maniac with an AR at 25 yards, then for me it's a question of tactics. Take cover. Either advance behind cover to a more effective range, or draw them in to effective range and ambush them. But...... at 25 yards in most environments that an attack would occur in, escape is a more healthy option than engaging the aggressor.
But then, fighting is always a question of tactics, in theory at least. Maximize the effectiveness of your weapon of choice while diminishing the VA's effectiveness. The subject is engaging to discuss, and it provides a guide of action and training. Mike Tyson once said everyone has a plan until they are punched in the mouth. He was right about that, and he knew fighting pretty well. Thing is, Iron Mike wouldn't want to face a maniac with an AR at 25 yards with only his fists. He would die if the maniac had only an ounce of skill or luck. If Tyson could take cover behind a brick wall and ambush the maniac when he came looking for him though, he might stand a chance. If he could stay inside the arc of the AR's barrel as he beat the maniac's face to a pulp, he would likely live. I strive for the ferocity of Tyson when attacked, but I don't have his strength, endurance or skill with my fists. So I carry a gun instead. Chances are, a snubbie up the nose will be a passable substitute.
I can keep the groups to around 5" at 10 yards with my 386 night guard. Not perfect and not nearly as good as I can do with my 9mm PX4 but like someone else said, it's enough to hit center mass.
i also live in a small condo so 10 yards is about the longest I'm ever going to shoot for home defense.
i also live in a small condo so 10 yards is about the longest I'm ever going to shoot for home defense.
Stainz
Member
When I worked at a public shooting range as a RO, I often got bored when the guys were not needing my assistance in setting their deer rifle scopes for 100yd. We had 12" metal plates at 110 yd for verification. I could regularly hit them 4+ times out of 6 on a good day - with my 2" 10 and some plinker reloads. The K-frame has a nice trigger, which helps, and the ammo is very consistent (I made it, of course!). It was quite aggravating for a guy to expend a box or two of expensive rifle ammo while trying to hit those plates with a scoped rifle on a bench rest, only to see some old guy, hold a snubby in his hands, and hit them repeatedly. I had fun.
Of course, they did this one day a year - then hunted once or twice - and that was it for a year. I shot all of the time. One chap repeated what Bob Munden said when trying to pop a balloon with a .38 snubby at 300 yd - they didn't know how much ammo I had! A 2" 10 is inherently accurate - much more so than I am. I was elated to hit that plate... doubt I could pop a balloon at 300yd... unless it was a weather balloon!
Now, about a SHTF snubby - you'll likely never need it beyond 7yd - that's 21 ft! Shooting at 25yd is fun, but of little practical value in SD. A hungry DA might turn that on you, too.
Stainz
Of course, they did this one day a year - then hunted once or twice - and that was it for a year. I shot all of the time. One chap repeated what Bob Munden said when trying to pop a balloon with a .38 snubby at 300 yd - they didn't know how much ammo I had! A 2" 10 is inherently accurate - much more so than I am. I was elated to hit that plate... doubt I could pop a balloon at 300yd... unless it was a weather balloon!
Now, about a SHTF snubby - you'll likely never need it beyond 7yd - that's 21 ft! Shooting at 25yd is fun, but of little practical value in SD. A hungry DA might turn that on you, too.
Stainz
snooperman
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No , I do not think it is practical for an 8 year old to...
shoot his 22 at 100 yards at all. Yes . I have killed a wild boar once with my Ruger SP101 snubby at about 20 yards while I was on my mule once. That said , I agree that it can be used but it isn't practical because there are other guns that can do the job better. The snubby was not designed to be shot at 100 yards or 50 yards. It is a carry up-close gun plain and simple. One may use it any way they choose but that in itself does not make it practical for those uses. Webster dictionary defines "practical" as capable of being put to use for a specific purpose. I guess one can draw their own conclusions.
shoot his 22 at 100 yards at all. Yes . I have killed a wild boar once with my Ruger SP101 snubby at about 20 yards while I was on my mule once. That said , I agree that it can be used but it isn't practical because there are other guns that can do the job better. The snubby was not designed to be shot at 100 yards or 50 yards. It is a carry up-close gun plain and simple. One may use it any way they choose but that in itself does not make it practical for those uses. Webster dictionary defines "practical" as capable of being put to use for a specific purpose. I guess one can draw their own conclusions.
The problem is that while everyone knows what they should expect, no one knows in advance exactly what will happen, if and/or when it ever does.
While it is probable that one won't have to use a personal sidearm beyond 20 or 30 feet, there is nothing to say that's a sure thing. The idea that not developing any shooting skill because you won't need it is short sighted to say the least, because you'll never know until maybe its too late.
At my age getting into any kind of shooting is highly (very highly) unlikely. But it is nice to know if unexpected circumstances demand a shot over point-blank range I can do it.
SharpsDressedMan
member
6 shots, 8 inches, 50 yards. It can be done. Not likely if you are scrambling from a holster against an armed adversary, but then, even one of those 6 hitting at 50 would be a good start.
rscalzo
Member
Many years back in the 60's after a large east coast 2700 handgun competition, one of the best shots on the east coast put on a demonstration of a great group at fifty yards using his personal S&W Model 36.
I wouldn't get upset if your groups past 25 yards (or somewhat closer) weren't target quality. Few can really do it and that's after much practice. In a high pressure defensive scenario, it will not happen.
I'd be very cautious using it at the longer ranges. Many try it and they wind up coming short by a great distance. It the backstop is not sufficient, you can very easily skip one over the backstop.
I wouldn't get upset if your groups past 25 yards (or somewhat closer) weren't target quality. Few can really do it and that's after much practice. In a high pressure defensive scenario, it will not happen.
I'd be very cautious using it at the longer ranges. Many try it and they wind up coming short by a great distance. It the backstop is not sufficient, you can very easily skip one over the backstop.
MCgunner
Member
Purely speaking from a marksmanship standpoint, I can keep all my shots inside 6" at 25 yards slow fire DA with my snubby. I'm pretty sure I can hit center mass at 10 feet. I don't do a lotta ninja shooting while in mid back flip or doing a round house kick. But, I can hit what I shoot at. I practice close range speed point shooting a lot cause it's fun. I usually do it from 21 feet on reactive targets like the 6" plates or pepper poppers. We have these fun things in our club.
I actually hunt with handguns, too, so I spend time at 25, 50, and even 100 yards with them. The snubbies aren't hunting guns, but they're fun to plink with at longer range and that's the only reason I need to do so. At my age, I ain't planning on joining the seals or becoming a mutant ninja turtle. I can handle a confrontation if it ever comes.
I actually hunt with handguns, too, so I spend time at 25, 50, and even 100 yards with them. The snubbies aren't hunting guns, but they're fun to plink with at longer range and that's the only reason I need to do so. At my age, I ain't planning on joining the seals or becoming a mutant ninja turtle. I can handle a confrontation if it ever comes.
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