practice of pointing a revolver up to cock it?

[ulfrik]

is anyone familiar with the practice of pointing a cap and ball revolver up when you cock the hammer,so if a cap falls off, it falls down your arm and not into the revolver action? is this a necessary practice?

how do you keep the caps from falling off?

 

[mykeal]

Quite familiar.

It is NOT a necessary practice. Many feel it's unsafe, although that's debatable and I'm sure the debate will be renewed here in this thread shortly. I personally feel it can be done safely and effectively; others disagree and I'm sure will provide that point of view later.

Regarding your question about keeping the caps from falling off: I assume you're referring to unfired caps. If the caps are the correct size for the nipples they will remain in place when the muzzle is pointed up. In fact, if they're not the right size, they won't stay in place when the gun is fired, either.

 

[ulfrik]

so if the caps are the correct size you can fire as fast as you want whith no worrys?

sub question-
if a fired or unfired cap does fall off and jam the revolver, whats the quickest way to unjam it?

 

[Chawbaccer]

Actually it was a quick rearwards motion over the shoulder when cocking so the fired cap would be thrown from the gun and not fall down and block the hammer.

 

[Packman]

Try pinching the caps just a little, into an oval shape, before you put them on the nipples. That should give them a tight enough fit that they won't go anywhere, even under some fairly heavy loads.

if a fired or unfired cap does fall off and jam the revolver, whats the quickest way to unjam it?

I've found that if a fired cap doesn't come clear of the nipple, it can jam the revolver. Thus, I check the just-fired nipple as I cock the hammer for the next shot. If the cap doesn't clear the gun, I'll "snap" my wrist clockwise, which almost always throws the cap clear of the gun.

I haven't had any problem with spent caps jamming the revolver on my 1858, but my 1851 has problems now and again. Something about the different profile of the hammer face causes the caps to stick to the hammer on the 1851 sometimes.

I also had a lot more problem with the Winchester Magnum caps on my 1851. They were a real pain. I bought them cause Walmart had them pretty cheap, but that gun doesn't like them. The 1858 eats 'em up no problem, but I just buy the Remington caps from the LGS now. It's about a dollar more, but not worth the hassle of putting different caps on different guns.

Have fun!

 

[Foto Joe]

I think each gun has it's own personality when it comes to answering this question. My Walker could care less how it's held when cocked, my Dragoon on the other hand has dropped a cap fragment right down the hammer and into the frame a couple of times thus jamming up the block. My '62 Police likes to be turned when cocked but even then it can get cranky dragging cap fragments across the recoil shield.

One way I've found to mitigate the problem is by replacing the nipples with Ampco Bronze or Stainless Steel. The flash hole in high grade nipples such as Treso's is considerably smaller, I think Mykeal has the measurements on these things. This helps prevent the cap from getting blown back into the hammer face and falling down when you cock the gun.

I think I've replaced the nipples on all but my Dragoon so far. The factory nipples even on Uberti I've found to be pretty scattered on size and quality. Oddly enough the Dragoon is an older ASM and the factory nipples fit CCI #10's perfectly. The Walker on the other hand was only a couple of years newer and the nipples on it were junk.

If your particular gun likes the "Gunfighters Flip" when cocked, just keep in mind that a Range Safety person might take exception to your muzzle crossing lanes while being cocked.

 

[ZZZ]

Pinching the caps has worked well for keeping them in place for me. The only time I point up first is with cowboy ammo loaded with smokeless powder.

 

[Diddlyv]

Colts are more prone to problems than the 1858 Remington. This is probably due to the wider hammer nose of the colt. Some folks modify the colt ram by soldering metal to narrow the hammer notch in frame and then grinding the colt hammer to be more closely shaped to the Remington. http://www.curtrich.com/GettingStarted03.html bout 2/3 down left side of page

 

[Hellgate]

I just fill in the safety notch on the Colt's hammer face and the caps have nothing to stick into when cocked. Solder or brazing would be best but i use JB Weld and it works fine but occasionally comes out and needs replacing. A lot of Colt repros don't even have the safety pins between the chambers for the notch to be of any use.

 

[Tommygunn]

A lot of Colt repros don't even have the safety pins between the chambers for the notch to be of any use.

This seems less true now than years ago. The Army San Marco repros I bought in the early '90s didn't have pins, yet I've seen earlier models that did. Pietta 1851 Navy from that era didn't have the pins, yet I have an 1861 Navy Pietta that does. As far as I know the Pietta 1860 always had them.
Now, I believe all Colt Piettas have them.
Uberti seems to be constant in their Colts always have them.
It's likely many old Piettas and ASMs on the used market are out there so there easily could be pinless Colts out there.

 

[higene]

Cocking

The video included in incurable shows the move well.

Sherriff's Model.

 

[TheRodDoc]

there is no way a properly tuned 51 colt should ever have a cap stick into the pin slot in the hammer. if your gun is doing that it needs things changed. you have way too much pressure under the cap.
wich also is blowing your hammer back, dropping the expended cap.

smaller flash holes and or use ff powder.

i load full Chambers of ffg in both if my real colts.
you will find that you will have a higher velocity ball with much less chamber pressure in a gun with a 7 inch or longer barrel. caps must fit quite tight too. flash hole of .022" is perfect. close cyl gap to .003.

i just came in from shooting my second gen 51. 36 shots with no lube at all. no cap problems at all. firring as fast as i can cock and fire on each cylinder full. Cyl still spins freely.
no flipping or tipping gun up when cocking. after all my fine tunning it functions perfectly. the way they always used to.

forgot to say that the nipples should be long enough to leave only .002" between back of fully pressed on cap and recoil pad.
making sure cyl is all the way back.

View attachment 129796

 

[Hellgate]

On of the problems with getting caps stuck in the safety notch is the width of the notch. Some of the Piettas have way too wide of notches. Filling the notch in makes a big difference. i was able to consistently shoot 30grs FFFg in the 44s once I filled in the safety notch with JB Weld. The guns are tuned with fairly light hammer springs but the caps stayed put or rolled out the cutout in the recoil shield.

 

[grimjaw]

Both the 1851 and 1861 have been more problematic for me when it comes to getting caps stuck in the action. I don't point it up so much as to the side and a little upward with a little wiggle when I cock the hammer for the next shot. At least it's still pointed in the direction of downrange. My 1858 doesn't seem to be as bad about it.

 

[TheRodDoc]

spent all day sat testing the 51. shot another 100 rounds through it. all shots at a 1 second rate of fire. no grease or cleaning ever. it never even started to foul up. not a single cap jam or a single one coming off. after the muzzle tuneup it was shooting a 1/2" group at 25 yards. sand bag rests on heavy shooting bench. using ffg Geo. exactly one 38 case full per cyl. you guys using fffg should really try the ffg instead. much more appropriate for a revolver.

i made an arbor to go into the bore that holds rotary grind stones much like valve grinding equipment uses. then with much care debured each groove and land. used a magnifier and rifling files.
i have this gun working perfectly.

pictures of spent caps. all 100 looked about the same. because of the .002" clearance between cap and recoil pad, they all stay on nipple till it gets to the loading gate where they just fall off from next shot recoil.
View attachment 129867View attachment 129868

picture of refinished muzzle. you can cut your finger on the edges of lands and grooves they are so sharp.
View attachment 129869

 

[Gambit88]

Ive never had to point a revolver up to avoid caps sticking, but I did have one repro of a navy that I had to angle up a bit or the cylander wouldnt rotate. That gun no longer functions but it makes a nice prop for costumes and such.

Gambit

 

[JCT]

Treso Nipples + Remington #10 caps= no more problems....