Practiced with "simunition" weapons the other day

[DontBurnMyFlag]

Hey everyone,

The other day in the police academy we practiced scenarios using "simunition" weapons. For those who dont know what they are, I will elaborate. The weapons we used were the Training Glocks, or the "blue glocks." They were operated exactly like a real Glock except this weapon used the "simunition paint rounds." What they are is a shall casing with powder and a little paintball where the bullet should be. They shoot at a velocity of about 450 FPS. The are accurate at short ranges and the weapons have a similar recoil to that of a .22 pistol.

Well we went up against SWAT members in the "death house." Which was really a 3 story smokehouse used by the fire department to practice. We did room clearing scenarios and all sorts of other tactical engagements. High-risk car stops were also exciting and scary. The SWAT members had loaded MP5 SMG's and were firing at use in full auto. Needless to say it was fun.

But on a more serious note, this is an extremely useful training tool. I urge anyone in Law enforcement to look into this training. We are the only police academy in the state of NJ to run "simunition" training. I also urge any civilians who have access to training like this, to take it up. Its much more realistic than paintball and conversion kits are sold to match your personal carry gun. I do believe that the kits are only available to law enforcement. However if you were to find a shooting/self defense school that provided this, I would jump on the chance.

The rounds hurt more than paintball and since you are using a real gun, the scenario is much more realistic. You dont feel like you are playing a game, you feel like there is an actual threat to your life.

Instintive shooting classes and simulations are invaluable, whether you are a LEO or a CCW holder. After watching dozens of videos and doing dozens of simulations, you can see how even some of the most highly trained individuals let off 10+ rounds in an engagement and have only one hit their target. It is estimated that during a police shooting, 18% of the rounds will hit their intended target. And these are trained LEOs (say what you will about their training.) Now for the average citizen with a CCW and no training and faced with a target withing 15 yards, I would say the hit percentage may be lower. This is not necessarily true, but I recommend training for any weapon you plan to carry.

4 years of going to the range gave me a good idea on how to shoot. But when you get into split second decisions and assessing a situation, it can go to hell real quick.

So stay safe out there and practice.

 

[roo_ster]

Getting a simunition on the back of your neck sure does wake you up in the AM.

 

[trickyasafox]

thanks for the heads up i'll poke around and see if its offered to civvies by me

 

[Johnny_Yuma]

I'll second that

My agency has been using Simunitions for about 9 years now and, provided you have some good scenarios and role-players, the training is excellent. I can't believe how few LE agencies train with this gear. Good Simunitions training will make you juggle strategy, tactics, marksmanship as well as provide instant feedback when the trainee screws up. Murphy's Law and Lady Luck even get in on the training. The adrenaline response is pretty intense the first few times you do it but you get desensitized after enough sessions.

One of the best things about Simunitions is that the gear is available for a wide variety of weapons. They even make conversion kits that allow the trainee to use his or her duty weapon, although this has to be controlled very, very carefully with triple-redundant checks to make certain nobody has the opportunity to introduce live ammo.

For those of you not in law enforcement, some of the shooting academies like Blackwater use this in some of their classes. If you have the cash and the dedication to your training, check it out.

JY

 

[Sam]

We use it a lot at work. Great training aid.
We even have a couple of SAWs converted to use the stuff.
My biggest complaint is teh cost of the stuff.
it is not cheap.

Sam

 

[mp510]

Simunitions gear is difficult or nearly impossible for civvies to obtain, BUT there are several Acadamies that do offer civilian training with simunitions equipment.

 

[steveracer]

Sims hurt a lot.

I have a scar under my chin where a simunition round from an AK snuck under my mask. Lots of blood. I wasn't permitted to shoot back.
Sim rounds are in use a Blackwater USA, and we have them at Northwest NS in VA. There's a whole SimVillage there, complete with fastrope tower. It's a lot of fun. I found the only downside to Simunitions is that you can hide behind 3/8" plywood and be perfectly safe. This is NOT a good habit to get into.

 

[DontBurnMyFlag]

alot of our guys had the idea of rolling up the windows on the squad car and use them as cover. It worked since they werent real rounds, but definatly not a good habit to get into. haha.

we didnt have enough time and gear to convert our duty weapons so we all used those blue training glocks. they have been around the block over the years and it wasnt until my first firefight that i realized my gun didnt have a front sight! haha

 

[geekWithA.45]

they have been around the block over the years and it wasnt until my first firefight that i realized my gun didnt have a front sight! haha

Huh...the exact opposite of the usual anecdote.....

 

[sturmruger]

This is definetly on my list of training to get someday. Simunitions seem like they would be a great tool.

 

[fudoshin]

simunitions

That category of training goes by various monikers, e.g., 'force-on-force training or 'adversary' training. Simunitions (w/ which I have no direct experience) are probably a very good tool for this type of training, but they are by no means the only tools. I have used air soft guns and BB guns for force-on-force training, and both work well, as long as everyone, including the adversary has the appropriate mindset, and the training is not a free-for-all. (Proper protective equipment, especially for the face/eyes is important.) In my view, FOF training helps reveal some of the psychological and biophysiological problems (not to mention tactical ones) one will likely encounter in an armed conflict. These same problems/issues are almost never experienced on a range. These include: tunnel vision, adrenaline rush, heavy breathing, loss of fine motor skills, etc. FOF training should also be done with other "cold" weapons, as well as without hand-held weapons. The weapon(s) are simply tools; mindset is the key to success/survival.

 

[hso]

fudoshin,

Welcome to THR.

Sims has the advantage of marking your target. Considering a lot of folks don't even know they get hit with Simunitions at times it's handy to be able to point it out.

You're dead on about the psych/physiological responses to shooting stress being brought out in FOF training and until you experience it it's difficult to understand (and humbling).

 

[Soybomb]

Out of curiosity how much does something like simunition differ from something like airsoft or bb guns?

 

[steveracer]

The sound and smoke of gunfire, plus it hits harder.

I have played a lot of paintball over the years, and airsoft, and of course I was shot with BB guns as a kid. These aren't nearly as scary to me as being shot by another trained pro with sim rounds. There is also the addition of realistic round count, exact feel weapons, tactical reloads, and my favortie, the terrifying rush of entering a room and having someone empty an AK full of sim rounds at you. This teaches things that I couldn't learn in any other environment.

 

[hso]

soybomb,

There is no suspension of disbelief involved with Simunitions training. It's a gun that feels like a gun. You load a mag of what looks like odd rounds. It shoots like a gun. You keep telling yourself that it's a non-lethal training tool and the reptile brain keeps screaming "IT'S A GUN". You react like it's a gun (except for the shock and bleeding and screaming for your Momma).

It's technically a very reduced velocity plastic bullet marking round that fires from specially modified handguns, subguns and rifles.

It hurts like hell if the adrenaline doesn't wash it out.