"Pre-Mark" Colt Trooper

[chriske]

Sometime ago, in a gunshop's 2nd hand display cabinet was a 4" old model Colt Trooper .357Mag., the kind that pre-dates the Mk III and Mk V. The kind without ejector rod shroud, , I think was made up to 1969-1970 or so. Know what I mean ?
Never actually saw one before outside gun magazines. Pretty rare, over here.
It was in excellent condition, hardly -if ever- fired (no drag mark around the cylinder).
As I am fond of "old-school" revolvers, I thought It looked quite impressive.The lockwork was the tightest I ever felt on any DA revolver : no play whatsoever, but I couldn't for the life of me manage the DA trigger pull : it got heavier & heavier the more I pulled the trigger to the rear.
The resident gunsmith told me that was "the nature of the beast" & that it couldn't be improved upon as you can with S&W revolvers, not even by replacing springs.
What's more, he told me those revolvers are notorious for loosening up quickly and irreperably.
Is this so?
Shame. even though I'm a S&W fan at heart, I liked that gun.
Anyone here have any experience with it ?

 

[Jim Watson]

The old Colt Troopers are fine revolvers.

The "stacking" of the double action trigger pull is characteristic of the Colt V spring design.
Some shooters used it to stage their double action; pull the trigger quickly back until it gets heavier, then squeeze off the last little bit of the pull almost like single action. It can be reduced or almost eliminated but is an expensive alteration by a very expert gunsmith. Seldom done any more.

Colt double actions have the Internet Reputation of being delicate and subject to getting out of time with little use. Which seems strange; prior to WW II, Colt was a major force in the market, maybe ahead of S&W, and you don't sell that many guns if they get a reputation for not holding up.

 

[Dframe]

The Trooper was made from 1954 to 1969. The "mark" III and V were made after that. Your friend has given you some mistaken information. The trigger pull CAN be lightened through adjusting the springs but it can be taken TOO far resulting in unreliable ignition. No, it will never feel like a s&w. The trooper shares the exact same action as the renowned Python albiet without the special hand work that gives the python it's smoothness. The MYTH of these guns quickly shooting loose never seems to go away. They are rugged and durable. Yes parts do wear and eventually will require replacement(in decades). But the ruger and s&w folks would like you believe that Troopers (and ALL Colts for that matter) require tuning every couple of weeks, and it simply is not true. The only downside is that Colt hasn't made that model for over 40 years now and parts availability has become a problem should it ever require the attention of a smith who really knows the Colt action.

 

[tipoc]

The MYTH of these guns quickly shooting loose never seems to go away. They are rugged and durable.

Well said. The basis for the myth lies in two things: One is flat out mis-information often spread by folks who never liked Colt revolvers.

The other is based on misunderstanding. Colt revolvers up till the 80s or so were generally stronger than S&Ws offerings. The heat treat of the metal was better and the lock up of the cylinder better. Jerry Kuhnhausen in his book on Colt revolvers makes these points. The lock up was referred to as "bank vault tight" The line up of the holes in the cylinder to the barrel was much better than S&W. With the hammer fully forward and the trigger all the way to the rear the cylinder of the Colt will not move, while there is wiggle in the S&W cylinder. This means that there can be a tendency for the bullet to slam off one or another of the sides of the forcing cone on it's way to the barrel. It also means more wear to the S&W.

The way that S&W locks the cylinder in place is also weaker than in Colt wheelguns. A slightly bent ejector rod can leave the gun inoperable. Not so with the Colt.

The S&W was more likely to go out of time. The Colt less likely. But, and it's a critical but the S&W can be shot for a longer period of time even though it needs repair. The S&W can be spitting lead with every shot, accuracy terrible, before it finally becomes unshootable. With the Colt once the cylinder begins to move with the hammer fully forward and the trigger pulled to the rear, it's time for a tune up. Once out of time it can more quickly become unshootable and the gun damaged. This is the origin of the myth of Colt's being more "delicate".

Pick up a Colt M1917 revolver and hold it up to a S&W M1917. Which is more delicate? The same is true for the M28 and 27 versus the Python. Though with the latter you can't see it, it's more in the construction and the heat treat of the cylinder and frame.

tipoc

 

[SaxonPig]

The pre-69 Trooper (indeed, all I frame Colts for that matter) are Python actions without the heavy barrel. Lots of guys say they break easily but when asked they have never actually seen a broken Colt. I suspect it's 99% urban myth.

This one dates from 1909 and has seen lots of competition use. Still tight and timed properly.





From 1931, used for bullseye matches for decades firing countless thousands of rounds and still functions perfectly.





As for the trigger, when correctly tuned the Colt feels like silk and you never notice the slight increase of tension near the end. Most guys prefer the S&W, but the smoothest actions I have ever felt have been Colts.


This one just has panache. A 1968 Official Police with ivory stocks. I would pack it anywhere at any time.

 

[pendennis]

Some great insight and information in this thread. My Trooper .357 is a superb revolver. It was owned by a police officer who must have loved it. I bought it last summer for the princely sum of $380.

 

[dfariswheel]

People who rant about the weak Colt action never can explain, if it was so fragile, how did it remain the issue gun for the NYPD, FBI, and a great many police departments from about 1900 to the later 1960's.

In the old days an NYPD cop was issued a Colt at the academy, and carried it for his entire 20 to 30 year career.
You never heard much about them failing.

 

[horsemen61]

Thats why I love these threads I may just claim colts are weak every week to see pics of some amazing guns thanks guys.

 

[chriske]

Thanks for the info, guys, (and yes, horsemen61, for the lovely pics as well).

Indeed it was the gun pendennis (#6) shows, except the one I saw was matte-blued.

The Colt reputation of easily shooting loose & needing repair seems just hearsay over here as well : apart from one or two fellow shooters who own Pythons (and NEVER complain about them) no-one I know actually owns/shoots a Colt DA revolver.

Although I only handled it & didn't actually shoot it, this Trooper impressed me as being a very strong revolver and "bank-vault-tight" is correct : when you swing the cylinder closed it feels "final". Hammer thumb-cocked or "hammer down & trigger back" NOTHING moves ANY which way.
A great, solid, classic revolver.


Almost regret I already spend my "gun buying budget"

 

[dfariswheel]

Where most of the "weak Colt action" comes from is that in a heavily used Colt the hand that advances the cylinder will wear.

This is a normal maintenance item in the Colt action and is no different than having to change spark plugs in your car.