Precision AR Trigger?

[Roadwild17]

Im about working on a precision AR build and need a little help with the trigger. Would a Timney 3lb be a good choice, or something like a cmmg or RRA NM 2 stage be more appropriate?

What is so special about a 2 stage trigger?

Also, a standard AR, is that considered large pins or small pins?

Thanks for your help guys.

 

[PurdueRifleman2008]

I think small pin works for most AR's. The large pin, if I remember correctly, was in a few Colt models (but not all) to prevent a user from installing M16 fire control parts.

As for triggers, I haven't ever shot a bad Timney although none have been in an AR.

Jewell also makes a good trigger but I had a hard time installing mine so I took it to a gun smith.

A two stage trigger is best suited for match shooting or varmint hunting. It's just easier shoot better with them. That's the best I can explain it.

 

[browningguy]

I haven't used a Timney AR trigger but I have them on two custom Mausers and they are good triggers. I currently have McCormick drop in, JP two stage and RRA two stage in my lowers. I'd say the JP is a little better than the others, but I'm very satisfied with the other two and would not hesitate to use any of them in another build. All of mine are between 3-3.5 lb's, although some peoiple like them lighter that works good for me in an AR.

A two stage trigger means there will be a takeup in the trigger as you pull it, you'll hit the second stage, and if correctly adjusted this second stage will take another pound or so of pull to fire. I like them because that's what I grew up shooting in the 60's, other people like a single stage better and either will work after you get used to them.

 

[JWarren]

Would a Timney 3lb be a good choice,

Nothing is wrong with the Timney, however... for the price of one, you could get a Geissele adjustable trigger. That would be a much better choice.

or something like a cmmg or RRA NM 2 stage be more appropriate?

Its hard to find the CMMG trigger in stock anywhere. I have a RRA NM 2 stage trigger in my LR-308, and thusfar I am VERY happy with it.

I went with the RRA NM 2 stage because I wanted a simple drop-in non-adjustable trigger. Since the Geissele SSA is NOWHERE to be found, I decided to get the RRA as an inexpensive improvement over the stock trigger that I could use until I found the Geissele SSA.

What is so special about a 2 stage trigger?

Two stage triggers supposedly offer a little more percision to shooting by taking up any slack prior to shooting. When you pull back on a 2 stage, you feel your slack being taken out. I can hear a small "click" as the second stage is reached. When I hear that click, I now know that a small amount of additional pressure will release the trigger cleanly.

Some love and some hate 2 stage triggers. It becomes a simple matter of choice.

Also, a standard AR, is that considered large pins or small pins?

Unless you have a Colt, you have a small pin receiver. I think some earlier Colts are small pin, but I'm not a Colt expert.

Thanks for your help guys.

No problem. Glad to.


-- John

 

[P-32]

I'll speak on the 2 stage trigger. Using the first stage you pull the slack out until the trigger stops. For a service rifle used in NRA High Power, this is around 3 lbs, maybe a little more. Once you have the slack out the second stage is crisp and almost glass like needing only needing another 1 lb, maybe a little more, to break the shot. The standard service rifle trigger is 4 1/2 lbs in total weight and has to be able to pick up a 4 1/2 lb trigger weight. For some matches your trigger will be weighed before shooting the match.

I know it sounds hard but it's not. A 2 stage trigger can be pulled all the way through at any time just like a single stage. I know if I get carried away on pulling out the first stage, I might have a round go off before I really want it to. Hopefully it will still be in the black. Currently I use White Oak Precision tuned RRA NM triggers in my AR's.

Don't forget M-1 Garands and M-14's came with 2 stage triggers. Some were a little better than others. All of my M-1 2 stage triggers needed work to get them down to 4 1/2 lbs.

Some people like only single stage triggers. I don't understand why as most single stage AR triggers I've been around had a heavy trigger pull.

If you don't have a Colt AR I would not worry about large pins.

 

[WC145]

I have a Timney 3# in my patrol rifle, a Bushmaster C15M4, and I couldn't be happier with it. Super fast and easy installation and the trigger pull is clean and crisp, no adjustments needed, nothing to do but drop it in, reinsert the pins and tighten down the screws. Made a huge difference in the "shootability" of my rifle, much better groups.

 

[Ed Ames]

Anybody able to comment on the American Trigger Corp/company's "gold trigger" snake-oil?

 

[MJR007]

I have a timney 3lb and it is great. I just had Bill Springfield at trigger works do a 3lb on a stock DPMS trigger form their lower receiver parts kit and it is also great. It cost $50 and he turned it in one week. Get a stock trigger and send it to Bill and save $150. It is your money. Good luck.

 

[krs]

I used this model Jard. Bought it because it was the lowest priced adjustable I could find and was very pleasantly surprised at how good it is.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1466&title=AR-15 AR CUSTOM TRIGGER KIT

 

[pdd614]

i have a white oak tuned rock river two stage, and couldn't be happier. for the price i don't think it can be beat.

 

[Roadwild17]

So Geissele, timney, and the RRA and CMMG 2 stage triggers are g2g.

What about the chip McCormick triggers?

Also I have heard something to the effect of "you dont put a 2 stage trigger on a fighting rifle", why is this?

 

[John Deere]

Just a few fighting rifles off the top of my head, that have two stage triggers. Mauser, Lee Enfeild, Springfeild, M-1, M-14. I would not trust advice from someone who preaches that single stage only nonsense.
I just put a new two stage trigger in my AR-15 service rifle, ( I shoot NRA Hi-power ) Made by X-TREME Shooting Products, it`s the best AR trigger I have ever felt, Very fast lock time ( 4 mill-sec. ) machined from A-2 tool steel, hardened all the way through. No cast parts, or surface hardening to wear through. Not cheap, but worth every penny in my opinion. HTH

 

[Ed Ames]

The problem isn't 2-stage in a fighting rifle, it's in an AR fighting rifle.

The theory being that the AR, designed for a single-stage trigger, is a difficult platform to fit a robust 2-stage.

 

[TurboFC3S]

The Geiselle is easily the most 'robust' match trigger available for the AR. I've seen test data posted on ar15.com of something like 150,000 shots without failure ... the McCormick was poor in similar tests. But I'd have to try and dig up the numbers to say much more.

Based on that, and user reports of the Geiselle, I was lucky enough to find both a SSA and their DMR trigger. And wow, they're both incredible! And I have a bunch of good triggers to compare with - I have 2 RRA 2 stage, a LMT 2 stage, Bill Springfield tuned RRA 1 stage, and one of the White Oak tuned RRA 2 stage triggers.

Any of those would be considered a very good trigger by 99% of users. It's not until you're able to compare them that you can feel differences. Best bang for the buck is easily Springfield tuned single stage, it was a $50 experiment, I just wanted to see how it would turn out ... and the guy works magic with triggers. That would be a good option if you wanted to try a match trigger for cheap. I'd say the best mid-range tigger is the White Oak tuned RRA 2 stage, and best high-end is easily the Geiselle.

 

[John Deere]

Yes, I have seen plenty of AR triggers go bad, but the RR 2-stage works like an M-1 trigger, and has no adjustments to come loose. The one I pulled out of my service rifle went straight into my hd carbine, after thousands of rounds, and who knows how many dry fires, it has never failed. Clean or dirty, I know I can trust this trigger. HTH

 

[SwampWolf]

i have a white oak tuned rock river two stage, and couldn't be happier. for the price i don't think it can be beat.

Agreed.

And the best part is, they really don't have to be "tuned"-mine works fine for service rifle competition "right out of the box."

 

[Roadwild17]

Whats the difference between the Geiselle SSA and DMR?

 

[Eb1]

I shot a Timney in an AR the other day at the range. I was use to shooting a basic AR trigger. Well good thing the barrel was down range because when I barley pulled on the trigger, like I would to start my 35# AR trigger (Exaggeration). The gun went off. It kinda startled me, but after that first surprise. I was able to put 4 in 1 hole at 100 yards with his rifle.

 

[taliv]

my RRA trigger has over 15k rounds on it and has never given me any problems. however, knowing what i know now, my own anecdote (i.e. luck) is not enough to convince me to ever put one in a rifle I intended to use for protection.

geisselle makes great triggers, but their match triggers will fail like any others. definitely worth the risk for high-power competition, since you can take an alibis. beyond that...

geissele's SSA/SSF triggers don't feel anywhere close to as good as their high-speed match triggers. (edit: i'm not knocking the ssa/ssf... they're good triggers... just saying if you're used to shooting high-power with the awesome high-speed trigger, try the ssa/ssf before you buy because it's not the same)

is a difficult platform to fit a robust 2-stage.

i'd be interested to know specifically what you're talking about.

I would not trust advice from someone who preaches that single stage only nonsense.

Yes, I have seen plenty of AR triggers go bad,

ok, let's hear it.

you're telling me you've seen lots of single stage triggers go bad?? but your RRA 2-stage hasn't, so you trust 2 stages more?

maybe i'm just being dense here and totally misunderstanding your point, but these statements seem contradictory and ridiculous.

 

[FlyinBryan]

Don't forget M-1 Garands and M-14's came with 2 stage triggers.

i did not know this.

i cant tell it with our garands, and one of them (a springfield) has the original trigger group (though it may have been rebuilt)

looking at the fcg on our garands, i cant tell how they could have ever been 2 stage, lol, but im no expert.

 

[gvnwst]

Also I have heard something to the effect of "you dont put a 2 stage trigger on a fighting rifle", why is this?

It might be because with a 2 stage, you have to pull through the first stage to get to where it actually releases the sear. That would feel VERY weird when you are rushing your shots, but it works great when you are just lying (or standing, sitting, whatever) there, and have plenty of time to pull through the first stage, then pull the second.

Would a Timney 3lb be a good choice

I have a timney 4# in my AR, and it is great. Another i have recently tried and loved is a JP single stage, VERY crisp.