Preparing to load .223, primer crimp and case trimming questions.

[BeerSleeper]

Christmas this year brought about the household's first AR15. (PSA, 16" lightweight midlength, hammer forged 1:7 barrel)

Naturally, it's going to need feeding. I've been loading pistol for 2 years now, safely, and without problems, but this will be my first rifle caliber, which adds a few steps to the process (primer crimps and brass trimming are foremost amongst the concerns). I'm preparing my shopping list to get set for this caliber, and would welcome any input on what items I should be looking at, and procedural recommendations for using them.

1) Primer crimps. What is generally considered the best way to deal with them? I've been looking at the Dillon super swage. Is that the best way to deal with them, and is that tool alone sufficient? I read some where it is recommended to use a primer pocket uniformer after swaging, but I'll admit I haven't read up enough on that yet to know specifically what it is.

2) Brass trimming. I'd say I've got about a thousand pieces of once-fired, crimped .223. It's range pickup, but I watched the guys shooting it, and when I saw they weren't picking it up, asked if I could, so it is known once-fired brass. Headstamps are mostly LC, with some FC and PMC in the mix. I am particular, and sort by headstamp, even with pistol rounds. Not certain it's necessary, but this way I am certain it is a potential (unnecessary) variable removed from the equation.
Now with the backstory done, I'll move on to the actual question. I'll take recommendations for a trimming tool, and also, would like to know if anyone has any experience with the RCBS X-die. Does it do as it advertises, and eliminate the need for trimming past the initial instance? If I want to use the X-die, do I need to use it from the first reload on that piece of brass, or can I start out with a regular die set and add an X die later?

3) Have I missed anything? Are there any other steps in the processing of rifle brass that are not used with pistol? I know about the need to lube cases for sizing, but beyond that, I don't know what else needs consideration.

 

[kreidel]

Get the lube off after resizing.

 

[dbarnhart]

You are where I was a year ago. after 30 years of shooting and reloading 45acp, my son presented me with an HK93 clone.

Bottom line on primer pockets: buy the Dillon Super Swage 600. It;s $110, I think. If you are dealing with a thousand cases it is the only realistic solution.

Trimming: I've tried several tools and short of a Dillon or Giraud trimmer, I think the Wilson trimmer with the power adapter (so you can run it from a drill instead of a hand crank) is my favorite. The Wilson is probably the most precise trimmer, and I can easily trim (and then manually chamfer and deburr) about 300 cases/hour.

I've actually migrated to the Dillon trimmer but that is a whole story of its own.

I've never used an X-Die but my understanding is that you trim the cases once to a dimension that is about .010 shorter than the trim-to length, and the X-die takes care of everything after that.

Powder: I don't know what you are using for powder and I don't know what kind of reloading press you have. For 223, I've found that Varget and other stick powders don't meter well through the Hornady and RCBS powder measures. I now use WInchester 748 or WCC 844 (milsurp) for 223, both of which meter nicely.

By using Milsurp powder bought in large quantities and milsurp pull-down m193 projectiles, I can reload my own 223 brass for $118 per thousand.

 

[BeerSleeper]

When I got started, I got the Hornady LnL classic kit, so I'll be looking for a powder that will meter well through the hornady measure. I haven't decided on powders yet, I was looking at W748, H335, and Varget. I like powders that meter well, so Varget may be the first one scratched off the list.

I may try a milsurp powder down the road, but while I'm working into my comfort zone here, I'm going to stick with canister grade powders. I'm within driving distance of graf's, so I've got a good source for a good deal on most components, as soon as I can find an afternoon to drive out that way.

 

[greyling22]

just buy the steel cased stuff. loading for an ar is a pain and doesn't save much money unless you buy surplus pulled bullets and powder in vast quantities.

Lee makes a pretty good trimmer, and it's cheap. you'll need a chamfer tool for when you are done trimming.

no experience with the x-die.

There's enough 223 brass in the world that I just don't pick up the crimped stuff. that way I don't have to deal with the crimped primers. But I know you CAN remove the crimp with a chamfer tool, a drill bit, etc.

AR powders are pretty forgiving. All the ones you listed are fine. I"m currently using varget and ramshot x-terminator. The ramshot meters better.

 

[T Bran]

I load for a bolt gun so our needs may vary. For plinking ammo I use pulled 55 gr fmj everything else is premium hunting bullets. W748 is tough to beat it is consistantly accurate and runs thru meters like water. I dont shoot enough .223 to justify pulldown powders so I stick to canister grade. Really the 223 is pretty economical on powder any how.
Congrats on the new toy have a blast.
T

 

[Hondo 60]

1) Primer crimps. What is generally considered the best way to deal with them?

The cheap way $2.79
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/389104/lee-chamfer-and-deburring-tool

The expensive way $98.95
http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/25263/catid/8/Super_Swage_600

 

[Hondo 60]

I'll take recommendations for a trimming tool

The cheap way $5.99 + $4.49 (you need both parts)
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/476992/lee-case-trimmer-cutter-and-lock-stud
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/107333/lee-case-length-gage-and-shellholder-223-remington

The expensive way $219.99
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/309537/lyman-power-trimmer-with-9-pilot-multi-pack-110-volt

 

[Walkalong]

The in between way is the Possum Hollow trimmer.

 

[BeerSleeper]

With the Dillon super swage, is that one step, and it's done, or is it still necessary to uniform the pocket, or chamfer it, or anything else?

 

[BeerSleeper]

I ended up not springing for the super swage, had to reallocate more of the budget to components. I got the RCBS primer pocket swager instead. It's does it on my press, and has worked well so far.

For trimming, for the time being, I'm using the Lee tool. It's not really adjustable for trim length, and is trimming down to 1.745. Max case length listed in my book is 1.760, and trim to length is 1.750. I trimmed about 20 pieces of brass, and the trimmer is consistent, with typical variance of +/-.002. I think (open to opinions here) that consistency is acceptable, but I'm wondering about the trim length being 5 thousandths short. Does that matter? Or is it a case that as long as all cartridges are consistent, it does not matter?

Thanks!

 

[cfullgraf]

.005" short is not going to hurt anything.

You can take a little bit off the pin on the case gauge but go slow as .005" will get removed quickly. I would take some emory cloth, scratch the pin a couple times across the emory cloth, then trim a couple cases and see where they end up. Repeat if necessary.

 

[Canuck-IL]

If you were using an "X" die the recommendation is to start at 1.740 so the 1.745 you're getting now is fine.

I also started with an RCBS die pocket swager - after the first 1K cases I decided my time was worth more than that ... the SuperSwage was my preferred solution.

Similarly, dealing with a Hornady manual case trimmer got old in a hurry ... picked up a Giraud and I've been completely happy with it.

In the long haul, while econo tools may accomplish the same job with as good or good enough precision, the quality tools save an enormous amount of time and, if the time ever comes, can be resold with virtually no loss. Just watch how fast $85 SuperSwages or $425 Girauds are snatched up on the various forums when they do show up for sale.
/Bryan

ETA: I do uniform primer pockets and clean-up the flash hole but I suspect most don't ... all my 223 and 308 are used in HP competition so I feel the uniformity is worth it. Those operations require virtually no attention, are a 1 time per caselife operation and can be done while mindlessly wathcing the tube.

 

[rodregier]

Three really handy products for volume .223 Rem reloading:

Super Swage 600 (if original brass is crimped)

Giraud trimmer

Redding carbide expander balls (no lube needed inside case necks), also minimizes case stretching due to expander drag.

I use a lube rack and the RCBS spray lube.

 

[moxie]

Here's another vote for the very inexpensive and fast Possum Hollow trimmer and power adapter. $34.78 for both from www.thecleaningandreloadingstore.com

I use regular RCBS .223 dies, not the X type, not the small base. The Lees are reported to be very good as well, the inexpensive RGB dies.

I like W748 but RE10X and RE7 do the same thing with 20% less powder. A bit more crunchy when metering but that doesn't affect anything unless you're bench resting. If you get your powder and primers from www.powdervalleyinc.com you will save a lot. Buy the powder in 5 lb. jugs. Even with the hazmat fee you will beat most other places.

The best deals on bullets seem to be at www.wideners.com

Hope that helps.

Oh, the Hornady One shot case lube is very good.

 

[SlowFuse]

I have just started using the RCBS swager. I was going to go for the Dillon but glad I didn't. I would have to have more than 1,000 crimped pcs of brass to justify the cost. The RCBS gets the job done.

 

[BeerSleeper]

I thought the RCBS swager was a good middle ground between the super swage and other cheaper options. It's still swaging, which if I understand it correctly, is preferable to chamfering or reaming. That, and I happened to stumble across it on clearance sale at midway at just the right time...

The money I saved will go toward a better trimmer. Possibly the possum hollow one previously mentioned after I have some time to learn about it. I need a trimmer better than the Lee one worse than I need a swager better than the RCBS.

I've got a friend who reloads .308 and .223. We've talked about going 50/50 on some tools that are easily shared. A super swage is a good candidate for something like that.

 

[jfremder]

The in between way is the Possum Hollow trimmer.

I've had good results from the possum hollow trimmer mounted in a cheap drill press. Fast and accurate. Chuck up the reamer, chamfer and deburr in a few old clamped down hand drills and you've got a poor man's brass processing center running at about 500 per cases an hour...Wear an old leather glove

 

[FROGO207]

I use the RCBS swager and the Lee trimmer chucked in a drill press. This works well for me as time is not at a premium and it is actually relaxing when I am reloading. I will second the use of X-Terminator for this round. I have not found anything that works better in my several 223 rifles. The inside and outside chamfering has been shown to improve my accuracy so I include this step whenever I trim a piece of brass. A case gauge to check finished rounds is also a good purchase. I used my Handi Rifle barrel for this for a long time and it is slower but works passably. I do not ever crimp my 223. I tried it at first and found no reason to as it wasted time with the extra trimming/crimping with no accuracy gain in any rifle I was using.