President Bush Getting Tough on Israel????? ...Nahhhhhhhh

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SGT109FA

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U.S. to hold back some funds from Israel



WASHINGTON, Sept. 15 — The Bush administration said on Monday it would withhold some funds from Israel because of its settlement activities in Palestinian areas.

But the administration said it has yet to decide whether to penalize Israel over construction of a security fence, which President George W. Bush called ''a problem'' for U.S. efforts to build trust between Israelis and Palestinians.
The deductions would come from a $9 billion package of U.S. loan guarantees to help Israel weather a deep recession and fiscal crisis stemming in large part from the three-year-old Palestinian militant revolt against Israel for independence.
An administration official said the dollar-amounts for any deductions have yet to be determined.
The move comes as the United States attempts to revive the U.S.-backed peace plan known as the ''road map'' after a series of deadly Palestinian suicide bombings and Israel's decision, in principle, to expel Palestinian President Yasser Arafat from the West Bank.
''It is important for the administration to consistently implement policies like these in order to maintain a credible role as a broker in the negotiating process,'' said Israel Policy Forum spokesman Jonathan Jacoby.
Israel says it needs the fence to keep out suicide bombers.
Washington has expressed concern at Israel's initial plan to make the barrier enclose Jewish settlements deep in the West Bank. Most of the barrier consists of a metal fence equipped with electronic sensors and tipped by razor wire, while some sections are cement walls.
Palestinians describe it as a new ''Berlin Wall'' that grabs territory they want to be part of an independent state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
''Israel's settlement activity is illegal and it undermines the peace process so we shouldn't be contributing to it,'' said Arab American Institute Managing Director Jean AbiNader.
''The administration must be firm and deduct, dollar-for-dollar, the equivalent of what Israel is spending beyond the Green Line --including funding for the wall (fence),'' he added.

US LAW
Under heavy U.S. pressure, Israeli defense officials announced on Sunday that they had revised the planned course of the West Bank security barrier so that it would leave out a major Jewish settlement.
Despite the proposed Israeli changes, a Bush administration official said: ''We can't preclude any deductions (for fence construction). That is still a matter for discussion.''
Legislation signed by Bush calls for the administration to deduct from the face value of the loan guarantees an amount equal to any Israeli spending on settlement activities in Palestinian areas.
Deductions for settlement construction was expected, but Israel and its supporters in Congress argued that the fence should not be counted.
Administration officials say at issue is whether the fence constitutes settlement activities. ''That hasn't been decided yet,'' an official said.
The proposed deductions would be consistent with past U.S. policy toward Israel, the White House says.
When Bush's father was president, deductions were made from $10 billion in loan guarantees to help Israel absorb a flood of immigrants from the former Soviet Union.
Bush on Monday designed Secretary of State Colin Powell to oversee the loan program.
Israel's Finance Ministry said last month that it planned to sell $3 billion of 20-year or 30-year bonds in the United States in the fourth quarter. Israel, which has never defaulted on its loans, can sell the remaining $6 billion over the next three years.

Yeah lets see how long this lasts! Maybe we should do this with Iraq, Afghanistan, Jordan, S. Korea and other places in the world we throw taxpayer money around.
 
So basically, Bush will punish Israel for bull dozing Paestinian settlements and building new Israeli houses by:

with holding an amount of money from the aid we give them equal to what they would spend to build these houses?

Wow, that's punishing them. And if they do it again, I say we cut off their Nintendo for a week.
 
Actually I would like to see the PA punished for not doing the one thing they are supposed to do which is dismanteling the terrorist organizations.

I am curious how much of the PA's budget that goes to terrorist support comes from the US.
 
So basically, Bush will punish Iareal for bull dozing Paestinian settlements and building new Israeli houses by:

Yeah seems to be a ploy to smoke screen all the big bucks we float over to Israel.:scrutiny:
 
Quote : Actually I would like to see the PA punished for not doing the one thing they are supposed to do which is dismanteling the terrorist organizations.

I am curious how much of the PA's budget that goes to terrorist support comes from the US.


They Palestinians are probably waiting for Israelis to guarantee the won't send in death squads first. The Arabs finance the Palestinians and we finance the Israelis. This is nothing new.
 
They Palestinians are probably waiting for Israelis to guarantee the won't send in death squads first. The Arabs finance the Palestinians and we finance the Israelis. This is nothing new.

There are some major differences. The PA is a brutal dictatorship that systematically targets civilians to murder. The Israelis target terrorists to kill.

The US targets terrorists as well such as UBL and his henchmen. There is very little difference between Arafat who is responsible for the murder of two American diplomats and UBL, other than Arafat gets international money to continue his reign of terror.
 
There are some major differences. The PA is a brutal dictatorship that systematically targets civilians to murder. The Israelis target terrorists to kill.

Well you got the first part of your statement right anyway. The Israelis will kill as many Palestinian civilians as they need to, to get to the terrorists.
 
I say that the Bush Administration should punish Israel by dumping 1,000 tons of surplus arms & munitions in the middle of Tel Aviv & telling the Israelis to "clean house"... :evil:

The only way this is going to end is if one side wins & the other side is wiped out...:(
 
I say that the Bush Administration should punish Israel by dumping 1,000 tons of surplus arms & munitions in the middle of Tel Aviv & telling the Israelis to "clean house"...

Well that sounds good ..BUT ! The arab world would unite to wipe out the Israelis and Americans for arming them, and the United States is not about to let Israel stand alone and Israel is not so tough without U.S. backing SO! the best thing to do is walk away from the whole Israeli -Palestinian mess and let them wipe each other out without our help. We owe NO ONE nothing especially Israel. Israel and Palestine are capible of fighting their own battles. They don't need the U.S. to throw our taxpayer money at their problems....YANKEE GO HOME !
 
Sgt don't you think it's the terrorists who endanger the civilians by hiding among them?

What is Israel supposed to do hope they surrender? Allow them unchecked to blow up pizza stores with their civilans?

How would the US react if terrorists were settings bombs off in McDonalds or malls? Would they wait for the terrorists to voluntarily surrender?
 
Well that sounds good ..BUT ! The arab world would unite to wipe out the Israelis and Americans for arming them, and the United States is not about to let Israel stand alone and Israel is not so tough without U.S. backing SO! the best thing to do is walk away from the whole Israeli -Palestinian mess and let them wipe each other out without our help. We owe NO ONE nothing especially Israel. Israel and Palestine are capible of fighting their own battles. They don't need the U.S. to throw our taxpayer money at their problems....YANKEE GO HOME

Care to guess who these same terrorists hate as much as the US?? I'll give you a hint the US of A. What they want is one world government ruled by a caliph. But hey I wouldn't anyone to go after those terrorists. We'll just give in to their demands and we can let them set their dictatorial government over us. No problema.
 
Well that sounds good ..BUT ! The arab world would unite to wipe out the Israelis and Americans for arming them, and the United States is not about to let Israel stand alone and Israel is not so tough without U.S. backing SO! the best thing to do is walk away from the whole Israeli -Palestinian mess and let them wipe each other out without our help.

And how is that different now?...:scrutiny:

The radical Muslims want to wipe us out ANYWAY. Israel is an ally ANYWAY. The Israelis & Palestinians will fight ANYWAY. And the Palestinians will attack civilians of any nationality ANYWAY.

We should just finish the job we've started...:cool:
 
I fail to grasp how some folks play the moral equivalance game in this death struggle. Israelis don't intentionally blow apart infants. Palis do. Test time, folks. Who's the bad guy here? :confused: /sarcasm.
 
Sgt don't you think it's the terrorists who endanger the civilians by hiding among them?

Hey shame on them if they don't band together and fight for their freedom. They would rather sit and be sheeple. Wheres the men of these communities? Lets be real here, if someone is putting the life of your families in danger you fight back to protect them,.
 
I fail to grasp how some folks play the moral equivalance game in this death struggle. Israelis don't intentionally blow apart infants. Palis do. Test time, folks. Who's the bad guy here? /sarcasm.

Moral death games my ???. Both sides are wrong here and neither side wants to back down. "Both" sides are killing inocent people. The palestinians are backed by the arabs and the Jews by the U.S. So its a jew-pal. standoff. The U.S. needs to back off and let the jews do what they have too. They say they can conquer and attacker, so let them have at it. WOW what a concept...Americans would save billions in tax money. Hmmmmm so might object.:rolleyes:
 
Well that sounds good ..BUT ! The arab world would unite to wipe out the Israelis and Americans for arming them,
In who's dreamland is this supposed to happen? Didn't the "arab world" already try the first part of that 3 times and get their hats handed to them every time?

The arab world isn't united any more than is the western world (US, Britain, France, Germany...).
 
It amazes me that even after 9/11, many folks in the US still haven't figured out which side of the line they're on. What's it going to take?

I would sooner give up on every other ally than abandon Israel. They've supported us more often than any other nation in the past. How many times has it been the US and Israel against the world in the General Assembly? If we stick a knife in that back, then there is nothing left in the US worth fighting for. No moral core at all.

Bottom line--you back your friend's hand. And if you don't know which side is friend and which is foe, you need to get yourself a clue.
 
They've supported us more often than any other nation in the past. How many times has it been the US and Israel against the world in the General Assembly? If we stick a knife in that back, then there is nothing left in the US worth fighting for. No moral core at all.


With allies such as this, we sure don't need any enemies. :scrutiny:

Israel needs to get out of the West Bank. Period.

The 'settlers' have no more legitimate claim to the land than the German 'settlers' did to the land they stole in 1942 Poland, and its to the US's shame that we support this theft.
 
With allies such as this, we sure don't need any enemies

Right back at you:
From, CDI, Center for Defense Information: "Killing Your Own: Friendly Fire"

"Soldiers from Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry (PPCLI) are the most recent coalition troops to die from friendly fire — a phenomenon also known, with equal irony, as fratricide — during the ongoing U.S.-led campaign in Afghanistan.2 The incident involving the PPCLI occurred on April 17 near the Afghan city of Kandahar when a U.S. Air National Guard F-16 dropped a 500-pound bomb on the Canadians who were conducting a night live-fire exercise at the time. Four soldiers were killed and eight others injured in the incident, which was the subject of a joint investigation by Canadian and American authorities. It was not the only such occurrence to warrant an investigation by the American military, with U.S. Central Command (Centcom) releasing a list on March 29 of ten incidents that “warranted review.â€3 The list included the following eight instances of potential friendly fire or fratricide:

Oct 16 & 26, 2001: Coalition air strikes were launched against International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) facilities in Kabul. Despite the ICRC’s being asked to provide coordinates for all its facilities in Afghanistan prior to American military action in the country, details of the Kabul compound were not passed on to the U.S. military. However, in the wake of the Oct. 16 raids, CENTCOM was advised of the location of this facility. Despite this, a subsequent raid on the ICRC compound took place on Oct. 26. This second raid saw two B-52s each drop three 2,000 JDAMs on the warehouses, while an F-18 inadvertently dropped a 500-pound GBU-12 bomb on a residential area some 700 feet south of the warehouses. Initial indications were that the GBU-12’s guidance system malfunctioned, but the raid itself was attributed to a human error in the targeting process.

Nov. 11, 2001: A UN Convoy traveling to Bamian was struck by debris when the cliffs alongside a road were bombed in an effort to deny the route to enemy forces. There were no casualties in the convoy. A CENTCOM report released on April 10 claimed that the convoy had not coordinated its movement with coalition forces and was not displaying UN identification markings...."

They lay out many more at the link than I copied.

Then there is the situation with the Iraqi Police where we shot up a patrol last week, the Washington Times story (the conservative DC paper BTW). And here is a story from the LA Times about the US apology. Note that these guys were uniformed Iraqi police in marked police vehicles.

How about US planes bombing a convoy of Kurdish militia and US Special Forces troops:
BBC article

I recall we also killed a few foreign reporters, at least one because we mistook his camera for a RPG. Also, I recall a situation or two against British troops in Iraq, us shooting down British planes, two British tanks shooting at each other, US troops shooting at other US troops in the first Gulf War, etc.

It is called "friendly fire", also "fog of war". It is unfortunate, it happens, and sometimes those who it happens to can't believe it was just an accident. That doesn't change that it is in fact an accident, one of many of the tragedies of war.

Sorry to contradict your conspiracy theories. Sorry, us Jews simply aren't manipulating and controlling things behind the scenes, as much as some would like to think so.
 
Those incidents were accidents.

James Bamford and others are convinced that the Liberty was no accident, and they have made a good case that it wasn't. Whereas the apologists for Israel have not made a good case that it was.

If Israel wants peace, they'd better quit trying to steal other people's land.

Eretz Israel is an idea that is simply not acceptable.

Personally, I think the best thing that the US could do is to promise to sign a formal defense treaty with Israel guaranteeing their pre-1967 borders if they withdraw from the West Bank.

That way Israel would be guaranteed security while the Palestinans would have the land to form their own state.

And if Israel refuses to play ball, then cut all aid and we'll see how long it takes for their economy to collapse.
 
If memory serves correctly, the Arab world has tried on at least 3 occasions to drive the Israelis out of "Palestine" The rusults were the same every time. If it was not for intervention by the U S during one such attempt, the language spoken in Cairo would be Hebrew instead of Arabic.

My suggestion has always ben to butt out of the Middle East and let nature take its course. Any bets on the outcome?
 
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