Press manufactures

[DRAINSMITH]

Which manufactures are sitting on there hands and which ones are looking to the future?

One of the main reason I went with Hornady is because I saw them coming up with new ideas and improving on their press, and with all the accessories.

Now, I also see RCBS coming up with a lot of ideas and see them becoming a bigger player in the future.

Now even though Dillion has a fine press I don't see them doing anything to make it better.

 

[egd]

You know what's coming....."can't improve on perfection" LOL

Oh, I'm LNL.

 

[dgod]

1 Partner Press, 2 Rockchuckers, 1 Lyman T-Mag. I am very happy with their performance.

 

[420]

..."can't improve on perfection"

Yes, the Coax is a *fine* instrument.

 

[jmorris]

I think RCBS hasn’t ever landed on a “good” press as far as function and sales. They have have had more “innovation” or new designs than others but they haven’t been as successful. Putting out things that don’t work or not as good as what already exists seems to be their problem.

Lee gets sales from price point and a few folks that can get them to run helping out others that are willing to put in the work, to get them to run well. Not a lot of need for innovation when your buyer looks at numbers after the dollar sign, to make buying decisions.

Hornady had the projector, evolved into the LNL.

Dillon evolved out of a few presses too over the years, RL350, 450, RL1000, and the 1050. The ones that have been around for decades now like the SD, 550, 650 and super 1050, have following because they are well known to be the finest machines that exist today despite being “old”.


All of them have evolved, to improve over the years. RCBS seems to tear off a clean sheet of paper more than others but Lee has several generations of primer systems, Hornady has changed primer punches, switched to the EZ Ject system and tried to get bushing tolerance under control. Dillon has changed frame design, powder measure, bars and linkage, press linkage, etc to improve upon their products as well.

A far as future, I have seen more single stage “innovation” than progressive. Seems to me they are looking at getting money from a lot of new guys vs the fewer guys that need a lot of ammunition. That’s the only thing that can explain Hornadys iron press single stage that sells for $225 vs the much more complex 5 stage LNL AP for $400.

 

[DRAINSMITH]

Now RCBS came out with the lockout die that everyone thinks is the cat's meow. I like the thought of a seven station press. If they could make it foolproof and drop the price, I think this could be a winner. I have seen this press in operation one time but the guy wouldn't let me pull the handle to get a feel for it. He was afraid of the primer slide breaking.

Now I would like Hornady to come out with a lockout die for the rifle. And I would like them to make bullet feeder for the pistol like the rifle bullet feeder.

 

[cfullgraf]

Now RCBS came out with the lockout die that everyone thinks is the cat's meow.

If you load one or two cartridges, the RCBS lockout die is serviceable, in my opinion. But, if you load lots of different cartridges like I do, the lock out die adjustments become expensive (buying many dies to pre-set for different cartridges) or time consuming re-adjusting the die for the cartridge du jour.

I use a Hornady powder cop die. Easy and quick to adjust when I'm setting up my L-N-L for a different cartridge. I make looking at the powder cop die as part of my scan during reloading. Easy-peasy.

 

[cfullgraf]

If you do not load a large number of different cartridges, any of the main manufacturers will serve you well. Set them up for your cartridge and go to town reloading.

In my case, I reload 10 to 15 different handgun cartridges plus a few rifle cartridges on the progressive presses. (I can never keep count of the number of cartridges.)

First, I resize at a different time from reloading and prime off the press. This makes the reloading process go smooth as silk with minimal or no problems.

The Hornady L-N-L works very well for resizing. I can set the press up to resize the case I'm interested in without the the powder charging or loading dies in place. Without loading, I can resize 100 cases in less than 5 minutes including changing dies and shell plates.

The Hornady L-N-L works well for reloading for the most part but I do use other presses for a variety of reasons. I have a couple Dillon SDB's that are dedicated to loading 45 ACP and 9x19. I've loaded the same bullet and powder charge for these cartridges for decades and do not expect them to change any time soon. I shoot a fair amount of them as well.

I've had troubles loading 45 Colt on the Hornady L-N-L. 45 Colt does not eject well on the Hornady for what ever reason.

45 Colt runs a bit more more smoothly on my RCBS Pro2000 so it gets reloaded there. Also, Hornady does not have a shell plate for the 460 S&W Magnum so it get reloaded on my Dillon BL550.

My Pro2000 is set up for reloading 204 Ruger and 300 BLK. It id more convenient for those cartridges than the Hornady L-N-L.

So, you have to decide what your reloading plan will be. Progressive reloading is a very flexible method of reloading that can be tailored to several different objective modes.

 

[Walkalong]

I think RCBS hasn’t ever landed on a “good” press as far as function and sales.

Which is a shame, and a curiosity as to why they can't seem to do so.

 

[jaguarxk120]

The biggest problem press manufacture's face today is that the customer is cheap and want's a press that will do everything for less money.
After all the shooting public is more concerned about the $188 shotgun than a $400 loading press. There are and there were outstanding presses made over
the years, the average shooter does not want to spend the cash for quality tooling.
That goes for dies too!

 

[jmorris]

Which is a shame, and a curiosity as to why they can't seem to do so.

They don’t seem to develop them, rather just start all over and that is odd for the only company to offer a conversion from a single stage to a progressive, with the piggy back conversion for the RCS single stage.

The primer issues that killed the Pro Chucker 5&7 right off the bat, should have been found and solved in the R&D department before they even started production. I understand the need for a weak link or fuse but it’s a design problem if the box the machine came in hasn’t even been picked up by the trash man and you have already broken every spare part the machine came with.

The Pro 2000 has a following and isn’t a bad press at all. I think the strips are what did it in and people not knowing they could also be converted to tube feed, if you didn’t want the strips. They also could not be upgraded (with factory parts) to keep up with the LNL, 650 or Loadmaster, all can be case fed, despite being a 5 station press.

 

[Doublehelix]

I have added lots of 3rd-party "gadgets" to my press to upgrade some of the functionality. I have no complaints about the base unit (XL650), but I do love the cool tools that add small improvements and upgrades.

 

[fotheringill]

A die screws in. The ram pushes the shellholder up to the die and then lowers. That is the basic.

Decapping is up to the die.
Full or neck sizing is up to the die.
Seating is up to the die.

Hand priming tool or a separate unit to prime will work better than whatever RCBS has for single feed of unused primers.

Perhaps, RCBS R&D should look into a better spent primer catch system instead of people (except those who are experts in use of painter's tape) having to spend money for something that the German has figured out on his very own.

 

[dgod]

Amen, TheGerman has 3d Printed some pretty neat stuff. Makes my Rockchucker work Smooth at primer catches. Love It...

dg

 

[mdi]

As far as presses go, I don't see much "improvement" in performance in the future. A press is a simple machine and there may be minor "tweeks" to come, but the basic design ain't gonna change much. I can't remember the last major design change or "new idea" in the last many years the last being an "updated" Hollwood type in the RCBS Summit. Actually as far as tools go, Lee has been the most innovative reloading tool manufacturer around today. They have come up with some unique tools lately from priming tools to case trimmers and crimp dies...

 

[fotheringill]

All of what I stated above being said, all we are really discussing are the innovations that will make "life easier" if not better. Whatever primer system is added on is still an add on. Do you want a priming die that sits in the press for absolute consistent priming or the bench primers, or a hand primer (less precise) or putting them one at a time on that flippy thing near the ram?

 

[hdwhit]

DRAINSMITH asked:
Which manufactures are sitting on there hands and which ones are looking to the future?

In answering that, are we supposed to be responding in the context of progressive presses only (which is where this thread seems to have gone) or their entire line?

And are we supposed to be answering it with respect to the future of the reloading industry or the individual manufacturers' place in it?

We could, for example, look at Lee, which has staked out a very solid position in the low-cost (call it "value" if you like) segment of the market. This should give them a clear path into a future that where the market will be constrained by the fact that in real terms wage growth has been flat for decades. But, at the same time, having become synonymous with low cost limits Lee's ability to develop and market higher margin products which could constrain their ability to have the working capital necessary to exploit opportunities in the future.

Similar assessments could be made for the rest of the players in the industry. The question is whether the political climate will continue to stoke fear of ammunition restrictions that will drive younger reloaders into the passtime because without a continual infusion of new entrants, the market has little future.

 

[VoodooMountain]

I think Lee was innovative from the start
It costs less and works just as well if not better

There are some exceptions such as their progressives but they still work

I much prefer their dies in most cases

Good example. I got a case stuck in a hornady die using hornady spray lube. Shouldn’t have but did.

The setup looks like the Lee die so I remove the collet on top and LIGHTLY tap it to see if the case budges. After 3-4 light taps the recapping rod bends like peanut butter.

So the Lee dies that cost half as much just work better for me. Rcbs is on the bottom of my list nearly every time. Dillon is too expensive for me to justify it.
Hornady has some great stuff and some mediocre stuff.
To each their own.


But if it works then why monkey around. They all have loyal fans and are making money so why make big changes? Also, how many big changes can a company make to create ammo that hasn’t hanged in over 100 years ?

 

[jaguarxk120]

A shooter can justify large money for a firearm, but when it comes to reloading
they want the cheapest tools money can buy.

Maybe Harbor Freight should get into the reloading area of business!

 

[ray15]

Lee has been at this for long enough to have done the lions share of necessary innovating 25 years ago. They did release a new powder measure (the Auto Drum) about five years back and it's perhaps 75% as good as it should be (meters well with about any powder, but is fussy to set up and prone to leak). I've yet to see the positive with their updated priming system, the Safety Prime. It may be safe with a wider range of primers, but does not fit the LCT perfectly and the trough is like a wet noodle. It doesn't work well enough for me to use it, and doing without doesn't slow my production. I'm guessing the prior, round reservoir type worked better.

I agree the basics of reloading haven't changed. One might view a need for constant innovation as a commentary on how well (or not) the current products work. Dillons have worked pretty darn well for a long time.

 

[Offfhand]

There have been presses with significant improvements that have largely slipped by the general reloading public without notice. A couple that come to mind are the Hood press that combines standard die accommodation with arbor press operation. Thus allowing a case to be run through a sizing die in normal and then the bullet seated with in-line (Wilson type) seating die. They are widely used by benchest shooters because of these features plus the fact that they can be stored in minimal space and conveniently transported. Another press that gets little notice is the beautifully made Dodd press, especially with the Carstensen modification. Which allows the sizing die to be precisely set and advanced in precise "clicks". Thus allowing precise, micrometer-like adjustments in shoulder set-back and similar changes. Attached are photos of the Hood, as set up, and stored flat, and views of the Dodd press with Carstensen modification with index.

 

[Damon555]

A shooter can justify large money for a firearm, but when it comes to reloading
they want the cheapest tools money can buy.

Maybe Harbor Freight should get into the reloading area of business!

You are correct. We have been conditioned to look at nothing more than price these days. Items like rifles and handguns have been cheapened to the point that they'll be lucky to come up with ways to make them even cheaper. I cringe every time a "cheapest this or that" thread comes up. Or the ever popular setting a max price that is so low that the only alternatives are bottom of the barrel, sub par junk.

I don't think everything needs to be top of the line.....I have plenty of Lee stuff that was inexpensive but works just as well as items costing twice as much. But when it comes right down to it I'm going to make a decision based on perceived quality (in my mind) price be damned.......

 

[DRAINSMITH]

In answering that, are we supposed to be responding in the context of progressive presses only (which is where this thread seems to have gone) or their entire line?

And are we supposed to be answering it with respect to the future of the reloading industry or the individual manufacturers' place in it?

We could, for example, look at Lee, which has staked out a very solid position in the low-cost (call it "value" if you like) segment of the market. This should give them a clear path into a future that where the market will be constrained by the fact that in real terms wage growth has been flat for decades. But, at the same time, having become synonymous with low cost limits Lee's ability to develop and market higher margin products which could constrain their ability to have the working capital necessary to exploit opportunities in the future.

Similar assessments could be made for the rest of the players in the industry. The question is whether the political climate will continue to stoke fear of ammunition restrictions that will drive younger reloaders into the passtime because without a continuous infusion of new entrants, the market has little future.

I was talking about the entire line. Anything from the L-N-L Iron Single Stage Press Or the L-N-L Case Prep Center down to the L-N-L Case Feeder Tip Stop.

 

[grandpawj]

Just call me a brand snob. Ninety percent of all my reloading stuff is green. Sometimes a fella just gets used to a product and stays with it. Besides, as has already been noted, RCBS has really good customer support. Don't get me wrong, I know others have great support as well.

 

[Rule3]

Where is the "love" for Smart Reloader products??

RCBS makes great presses the problem I see with their progressive Pro Chucker 7 which has gone to prime tubes rather than strips is the PRICE!
I would buy one (another) other than the price.

Dillon does not need to innovate, that have a solid line that all work, work well and great customer service. Why do they need to reinvent the wheel??

Innovation just for the sake of change is not always a good plan. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Items other than presses have just become high price gadgets. Electronic powder measure scales?? OK, they are neat, but electric and WILL break.