Press upgrade time. Thinking Dillon 650

[Nature Boy]

It seems the full progressive would not work for rifle other than .223/5.56. I am not sure how Natureboy does .30-06. How well does an extruded powder like IMR 4350 meter in a Dillion powder measure?

Swanee, the only extruded powder I've had inconsistency with was IMR4064. H4895, Varget, RL15 and IMR4350 have all metered ~.1-.2g of variation, which has been acceptable for me

When I decided to start reloading I was convinced by conversations like this one that a 550 was really the most I'd ever need and I'd probably be better off starting with a single stage. The more I read the more I learned and almost everyone that went that route eventually moved to the 650 with the "wish I'd done it sooner" comment tagged on at the end. So I decided, what the heck, may as well start at the point.

 

[jmorris]

It seems the full progressive would not work for rifle other than .223/5.56.

You still have to make two passes with rifle cases because they may need to be trimmed. You can actually trim during the sizing pass with the Dillon trimmer.



Then swap out the tool head and load on the next pass.

The only progressive I have had problems loading longer rifle rounds on were my Hornady LNL's. They index half on the up stroke and half on the down. So if you have a longer case and set a bullet on top, as you raise the ram the bullet can be too high to enter the die and it gets knocked off when it finished the index. You can get around this by putting the bullet up into the die, raising the ram until it finished the index, then set the bullet on the case but is gets old pretty quick. Especially if you have a 650 that will load the same rounds without the issue.

 

[evtSmtx]

my quick take

+ I love my xl650
+ started without a casefeeder, ordered casefeeder after about a month, love it
+ don't have a bullet feeder, like to visually check powder before seating bullet

 

[Lost Sheep]

Any reason why I shouldn't go with the 650 XL? My good old Lee 4 hole turret is still working fine but I'd like to load more with less hassle. Indexer hasn't worked in a while, fingers hurt from feeding cases, primers and bullets.....

Good advice on the Dillon 650. Though, a look at Hornady's LNL Progressive might be in order, too.

Myself, I am happy with my Classic Turret and have this question: What's up with the auto-indexing. There is no reason not to reinstate it. The most common cause of failure is the Square Ratchet breaking and is easy to fix by simple replacement of the 50 cent part.

Lost Sheep

 

[SwaneeSR]

Swanee, the only extruded powder I've had inconsistency with was IMR4064. H4895, Varget, RL15 and IMR4350 have all metered ~.1-.2g of variation, which has been acceptable for me



When I decided to start reloading I was convinced by conversations like this one that a 550 was really the most I'd ever need and I'd probably be better off starting with a single stage. The more I read the more I learned and almost everyone that went that route eventually moved to the 650 with the "wish I'd done it sooner" comment tagged on at the end. So I decided, what the heck, may as well start at the point.

Well, the .1-.2 grain variance is not bad.
IMR4350
H4350
H4895
Varget
RL22

Are the rifle powders I have been using. For the various calibers, charges 30, 57, 70 grains. .1 to .2 grains would seem acceptable. That is only a few "sticks" of IMR4350.

I could see a 650 in my future. I like blue. But red and green are not bad presses.

 

[double bogey]

I went from a lee classic turret to a 650. They shouldn't even sell it without the case feeder. You can really turn out some ammo. Still have the turret, use it for rifle and load workup.

 

[highlander 5]

I'very said this before the primer set up on the 650 is a pain to change that's why I have 2 one for large and 1 for small primers. Got tired of mangling the primer assembly trying to get a wrench or pliers to remove it. Even the Dillon techs said that the primer set up is the weak point. BTW if someone has a video on how to remove it without damage let me know.

 

[joem1945]

"Quote:
It seems the full progressive would not work for rifle other than .223/5.56.
You still have to make two passes with rifle cases because they may need to be trimmed. You can actually trim during the sizing pass with the Dillon trimmer.

I prep all my cases before loading on the 650. I trim cases with the Dillon RT1200 case trimmer. Only takes one pass. Loads .30-06,.308..223,.38spl,.357, 9mm,.380 and a few more.

 

[Paladin7]

Here's another thought that might be worth strongly considering before plunking down good money on that Dillon 650...

Check out the Hornady Lock n Load AP Press... I went through the same decision of few months back and chose the Hornady. I'm very happy with it.

Dillon makes great stuff, but so does Hornady and the Hornady won't cost you anywhere near what a Dillon will when you add up all the costs associated with Dillon.

Both companies offer no hassle lifetime guarantees.

The Hornady is worth a look and you get 500 free bullets with it. In my case that was $177 worth of 7mm bullets.

 

[jmorris]

I prep all my cases before loading on the 650. I trim cases with the Dillon RT1200 case trimmer. Only takes one pass. Loads .30-06,.308..223,

I don't understand. Are you saying you size/deprime, trim, seat a primer, powder charge and seat a bullet in a single pass?

If your saying you prep the brass before loading by resizing and trimming that is the first pass through the machine. The second pass is loading the brass or making 2 passes to reload them.

 

[ljnowell]

You certainly cannot go wrong with a Dillon. I have a couple progressives now, not Dillon, and I'm very happy with them.

I can't possibly try and talk someone out if a Dillon, they are great machines.

 

[dragon813gt]

Do you need the volume it can produce and the potential hazards w/ the auto indexing? If you're not going to hook up a case feeder then why bother? Just asking some basic questions. If you don't need the volume it can produce the 550 will still produce a lot. Caliber changers are cheaper. It really depends on how much volume you need as to which one to get.

 

[ljnowell]

The potential hazards are greater without auto indexing.

 

[dragon813gt]

The potential hazards are greater without auto indexing.

It goes both ways. The more times you handle a case the greater the chance for error. The more operations performed at once the greater the chance for error. Thinking an auto indexing progressive is safer is foolish IMO. There is a lot going on and you need to pay attention to all of it. W/ single stage reloading you are looking at every operation every time. Any errors should be immediately noticeable.

 

[jmorris]

The more times you handle a case the greater the chance for error....W/ single stage reloading you are looking at every operation every time. Any errors should be immediately noticeable.

You are however, handling the case separately for every operation.

I also agree they "should be" noticed, given the number of Kaboom/squib posts on forums, I think many would be better off with an auto indexing progressive with a powder check than a SS. The 1050 would be at the top of the list because you can't even short stoke the press like all the rest.

You put a clean fired case in and a loaded round comes out. Powder level was checked and the operator had less chance to induce a failure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrFhnDQ-eUU

 

[ljnowell]

It goes both ways. The more times you handle a case the greater the chance for error. The more operations performed at once the greater the chance for error. Thinking an auto indexing progressive is safer is foolish IMO. There is a lot going on and you need to pay attention to all of it. W/ single stage reloading you are looking at every operation every time. Any errors should be immediately noticeable.

There is just as much going on with a manual indexing press. Adding the possibility of not indexing and thinking it's safer is foolish.

 

[torchroadster]

Here's another thought that might be worth strongly considering before plunking down good money on that Dillon 650...

Check out the Hornady Lock n Load AP Press... I went through the same decision of few months back and chose the Hornady. I'm very happy with it.

Dillon makes great stuff, but so does Hornady and the Hornady won't cost you anywhere near what a Dillon will when you add up all the costs associated with Dillon.

Both companies offer no hassle lifetime guarantees.

The Hornady is worth a look and you get 500 free bullets with it.

I did the same, with the same outcome and am very happy with my decision. There is nothing wrong with the Lock n Load AP, the customer service is top notch, and it is more affordable than Dillon.

 

[stavman11]

I got a 650 about 6mo ago... It Rocks

I got it mainly for .223 mass production.... I included the Case Feeder and the Hornady Bullet Feeder.... it is an awesome setup Indeed

I use my Lee Pro 1000 for Case Prep... so the 650 is just for loading...

I have not had 1 issue yet with my setup.... I can bust out Many rds/hr with not a hickup


Love it

 

[Lost Sheep]

The potential hazards are greater without auto indexing.

Whatever press you use, however you use it
Single stage
Turret in batch mode
Turret in continuous mode
Progressive in continuous mode
Some hybrid of the above.

You design your loading bench with as much care and attention as any munitions factory. Because you are.

Remember, there is not such thing as idiot-proof. Because idiots are so inventive. That is why we de-bug programs as best we can. Then subject the successfully debugged programs to beta-testing and de-bug them again. Repeat that cycle multiple times, as necessary.

Every press, every manufacturing algorithm, has some points where something can go wrong. With sufficient imagination, you can find and guard against half of them. Then, some of the others find you. And you guard against those for the future.

The wise man learns from his mistakes. The truly wise man learns from the mistakes of others. So, we share on these forums and other gathering places.

Rock on. Be safe, always, all ways.

Lost Sheep