Pressure Signs??? ELD-X

[grubbylabs]

Thanks for the links.

 

[grubbylabs]

I am just waiting for the weather to improve to run some tests. I also am loading the 200 g ELD-X for a 300 win (Winchester model 70) and a 308 (PSA AR-10) 20" barrel.

As soon as I get a chance I will report my results. In the 300 win I am loading RL22 starting at 59.2 grains and stopping at 72.4 grains. And for the 308 I am loading 37.4 grains to 44.6 grains. I am running a ladder test.


oops, one of those is for my ladder test using the 168 Hornady HPBT. Not the 200 grain ELDX. I thought I already loaded those, but have not yet.

 

[Bart B.]

If the max load listed in that picture for each cartridge is the max from loading data, I would not use any charge weight more than about 12% below max. That's about 39.4 for the .308 and 64 for the .300. Lesser charge weights are not worth using in my opinion.

 

[Metal God]

I'm with Bart on this one . unless you are looking for a powder puff load there's no reason to start the ladder test that low with the 308 . I don't know much about the 300 Win so I'll leave that one alone .

I just did a tradition load development using the 168gr BTHP and RL-15 a few months ago and am now in the middle of a OCW test using the same components .

My standard load development is to load 5 shots going up in .5gr increments . How ever when I run into data that has almost a 20% reduction from max I don't start at that 20% minimum with 5 shots Because I don't want to waist all the extra components for charges I know I'll likely never use . What I'll do is reduce by 10 to 12% from max for my 5 shot sets . I will then load 1 shot each from minimum or close to it and move up in 1.0gr increments until I reach that 10% reduction charge .

Those single shots are just to be sure I'm not over pressure at the lower charges and can act as sighters to be sure the loads is on target for the 5 shot groups .

I hope that made sense , if not here's what that load development looked like after I was done . FWIW this load never showed any pressure signs even at 43.5gr

 

[grubbylabs]

I read an article last year about ladder testing that was written by a 6mm br shooter, it made sense, so I have tried it a few times and have found that it works very well. So that's what I am trying here.
I did a test for 70 grain nosler bullets in .243. I found that the starting load gave the best performance.

 

[Metal God]

Right on grubby , If your going for pure accuracy and velocity has no worth to your type/style of shooting then checking every possible load is worth it . I to have a load or two that my best accuracy came at the start load or very close to it .

I how ever also work up loads for much longer ranges and a couple more hundred fps can really help . When working those up I'll tend to look for accuracy nodes in the upper charges . I'll also try to get more velocity with hunting loads . I'm willing to give up 1/2 moa in accuracy to get a little more terminal ballistics

 

[rescurat]

Update, Finally!

Well between work schedule, high winds, and a broken firing pin, I finally managed to get back to the range. I decided to purchase some Lapua brass and start from scratch.
To start I neck sized the Lapua brass and primed it with Fed match large rifle primers.
projectile is the Hornady 200gr ELD-X
Powder is IMR 4064
COAL is 2.815"

I ended up doing an extended OCW in 2 sessions of 9 loads each from 36.4 to 39.9 grains. Results and pictures are below.

1. 36.4 gr AVG 2058 ES 16 SD 8
1. 2052
2. 2065
3. 2050
4. 2066
5. 2060
2. 36.6 gr AVG 2075 ES 16 SD 7
1. 2083
2. 2072
3. 2067
4. 2081
5. 2078
3. 36.8 gr AVG 2084 ES 26 SD 11
1. 2070
2. 2081
3. 2080
4. 2094
5. 2096
4. 37.1 gr AVG 2120 ES 27 SD 10
1. 2109
2. 2121
3. 2120
4. 2136
5. 2116
5. 37.3 gr AVG 2131 ES 36 SD 15
1. 2142
2. 2128
3. 2143
4. 2107
5. 2135
6. 37.5 gr AVG 2133 ES 34 SD 14
1. 2117
2. 2151
3. 2123
4. 2144
5. 2133
7. 37.7 gr AVG 2143 ES 47 SD 23
1. 2159
2. 2119
3. 2164
4. 2117
5. 2154
8. 37.9 gr AVG 2172 ES 47 SD 18
1. 2189
2. 2178
3. 2178
4. 2172
5. 2142
9. 38.1 gr AVG 2160 ES 35 SD 15
1. 2148
2. 2144
3. 2167
4. 2179
5. 2166
10. 38.3 gr AVG 2239 ES 45 SD 18
1. 2212
2. 2231
3. 2253
4. 2242
5. 2257
11. 38.5 gr AVG 2241 ES 33 SD 12
1. 2234
2. 2251
3. 2255
4. 2244
5. 2222
12. 38.7 gr AVG 2247 ES 30 SD 11
1. 2242
2. 2251
3. 2264
4. 2246
5. 2257
13. 38.9 gr AVG 2257 ES 23 SD 8
1. 2257
2. 2258
3. 2270
4. 2255
5. 2247
14. 39.1 gr AVG 2261 ES 32 SD 12
1. 2268
2. 2260
3. 2260
4. 2275
5. 2243
15. 39.3 gr AVG 2272 ES 29 SD 11
1. 2276
2. 2286
3. 2257
4. 2274
5. 2269
16. 39.5 gr AVG 2279 ES 25 SD 10
1. 2284
2. 2292
3. 2267
4. 2275
5. 2278
17. 39.7 gr AVG 2287 ES 38 SD 14
1. 2276
2. 2286
3. 2307
4. 2269
5. 2299
18. 39.9 gr AVG 2291 ES 30 SD 11
1. 2294
2. 2293
3. 2286
4. 2306
5. 2276

 

[BigBore45]

Looks like 39.6 and 39.8 are next!

 

[rescurat]

Looks like 39.6 and 39.8 are next!

Why just those two loads? If you move the first impact on the second target,(POA 11 38.5 gr) to reflect the 3 moa elevation correction made after that shot, that would put it in the 1 moa range for the group, and likewise POA 13 has the lowest ES and SD values and if you throw out the flier#5, the group has between 1/2 and 3/4 moa vertical. Also loads 2,3,6, and 7 all have small vertical spreads albeit lower velocities.

I'm not questioning your knowledge, I'm new to rifle reloading and OCW and just trying to understand the why.

edit 04/21

I think I'll load up a few more steps in the Lapua brass approaching the Hornady published Max looking for pressure signs and see if I can squeeze a little more velocity out of it. Pretty sure these will be compressed loads though...

 

[Metal God]

Glad to see your back . Before i give my opinion I have a couple questions .

1) At what distance were the targets ?

2) How did you come up with 2.815 being your COAL ?


With out those answers I'd say 37.5gr is in the middle of a three group lot that has little vertical stringing and I don't see anything that's consistent on the other target .

Remember The OCW needs the center of each group to be found . Although some of the centers on the second target may be similar . The vertical spreads are quite large on all of the groups .

 

[rescurat]

OCW continued

I made it back out again today and shot the final 9 loadings for the OCW, results are as follows

19. 39.6 gr AVG 2294 ES 14 SD 7.37
a. Error
b. 2296
c. Error
d. 2285
e. 2299
20. 39.8 gr AVG 2303 ES 20 SD 7.71
a. 2305
b. 2292
c. 2299
d. 2307
e. 2312
21. 40.0 gr AVG 2324 ES 43 SD 16.74
a. 2318
b. 2342
c. 2335
d. 2299
e. 2328
22. 40.4 gr AVG 2341 ES 42 SD 16.81
a. 2336
b. 2343
c. 2326
d. 2328
e. 2368
23. 40.6 gr AVG 2362 ES 50 SD 18.47
a. 2360
b. 2366
c. 2333
d. 2370
e. 2383
24. 40.9 gr AVG 2378.6 ES 8 SD 3.28
a. 2377
b. 2383
c. 2375
d. 2377
e. 2381
25. 41.1 gr AVG 2396.4 ES 46 SD 17.96
a. 2376
b. 2406
c. 2386
d. 2392
e. 2422
26. 41.4 gr AVG 2403.8 ES 30 SD 11.92
a. 2420
b. 2390
c. 2395
d. 2410
e. 2404
27. 41.6 gr AVG 2402 ES 45 SD 17.27
a. 2427
b. 2405
c. 2390
d. 2382
e. 2406

 

[rescurat]

1) At what distance were the targets ?

2) How did you come up with 2.815 being your COAL ?

The Targets were at 100 yds, Shot from the prone position with a bipod. Conditions were not great, April in Vegas is windy and mirage has the targets dancing even at 100.

As for the COAL, 2.815 is the max length to feed from my PMAGs, I started with the longest possible so that I would be able to shorten if need be.

 

[Metal God]

What distance and why 2.815 COAL ????

 

[rescurat]

See above post???

 

[rescurat]

I also performed 2 ladder tests with the LC brass, sorted for consistent case weight, IMR 4064, and no crimps. The 2 groups tested were 10 rds loaded with the 200 gr ELD-X (no circles), and 10 rds 190 gr SMK Circled. This test was performed at 400 yds. Each test group had one round impact off the backer. No signs of excessive pressure were present.

200 gr ELD-x
1. 36.9 gr 2207
2. 37.3 gr 2219
3. 37.7 gr 2250
4. 38.1 gr 2275
5. 38.5 gr 2275
6. 38.7 gr 2320
7. 39.0 gr 2287
8. 39.2 gr 2309
9. 39.4 gr 2322
10. 39.6 gr 2338

190 gr SMK
1. 39.2 gr 2359
2. 39.6 gr 2349
3. 40.0 gr 2370
4. 40.4 gr 2379
5. 40.8 gr 2401
6. 41.1 gr 2419
7. 41.4 gr 2444
8. 41.6 gr 2464
9. 41.8 gr 2472
10. 42.0 gr 2467

 

[Metal God]

Sorry not sure how I missed that you answered my question before I poster it a second time . We may have posted at the same time .

Anyways , I think based on your answers I'll stick with my answers as to the loads I like and why . What is your evaluation of your groups ???

 

[rescurat]

Anyways , I think based on your answers I'll stick with my answers as to the loads I like and why . What is your evaluation of your groups ???

Have you had a look at the latest targets? Admittedly not my best work, maybe a little rushed. I think targets 24 40.9, 25 41.1, and 26 41.4 are the best with target 25 41.1 gr having the least vertical

 

[Metal God]

Yes I have and I think those you picked out are about right . On the circled Ladder test . I really like those in the 41.4 through 42 area except that 41.8 that's way high . It seems odd to me that 41.4 .6 & 42 all are almost the same but 41.8 is way high . The charge i'd likely try is 41.4 or 41.5 staying as far away as i could from 41.1 and 41.8 . Now if 41.8 was a called flyer of some sort and that node is really 41.4 through 42 . I'd try 41.7 , I may try it anyway and compare it to 41.5

 

[grubbylabs]

And in the mean time, I shot my 300 win loads, nothing looked good. It looked horrible. I will be switching powder and trying it again. I used RL22. Now I am going to try IMR 4831.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rescurat]

And in the mean time, I shot my 300 win loads, nothing looked good. It looked horrible. I will be switching powder and trying it again. I used RL22. Now I am going to try IMR 4831.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've suspended testing the 300 WM loads until I rebarrel next month

 

[rescurat]

Yes I have and I think those you picked out are about right . On the circled Ladder test . I really like those in the 41.4 through 42 area except that 41.8 that's way high . It seems odd to me that 41.4 .6 & 42 all are almost the same but 41.8 is way high . The charge i'd likely try is 41.4 or 41.5 staying as far away as i could from 41.1 and 41.8 . Now if 41.8 was a called flyer of some sort and that node is really 41.4 through 42 . I'd try 41.7 , I may try it anyway and compare it to 41.5

The ladder with the circles is very close to my original load with the 190 SMK at 41.9 but it was crimped and over-pressure.

The ladder test without circles was with the 200gr ELD-X seems to have a sweet spot between 39.2 and 39.6 but seems less defined than the 190gr test.

Should I now perform an OCW using these narrowed charge weights?

As for the OCW with the Lapua brass, 41.1 looks promising so I will shoot 41.0 and 41.2 to see if either is better then start refining seating depth.

 

[243winxb]

Shot from the prone position with a bipod.

Not how i would " benchrest" for testing loads.