Pressure signs factory ammo?

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Pripyat

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A buddy of mine bought a lot of items and gave me some loose 30-06 ammo that was stored in en bloc clips. I assumed the ammo was factory or loaded for a Garand. Went to the range to sight in a scope and play with some handloads. First shot came from the en bloc clip. Brass ejected fine but this is the first time I have ever seen a casing have the scratched portion on the head. Recoil was excessive to say the least.

u7y6e2e8.jpg

Two questions:
-From the image is it unsafe to fire the rest of the lot? I could chrony the next shot from the lot.
-I shot several weight factory hunting rounds and none of them showed these signs. What are the odds the lot is hot hand loads?
 
I feel like this forum has significantly decreased my IQ. This is the third time the first reply to my thread was something I was embarrassed to have not thought of first. It is just so easy to jump on the forum and ask questions.. I will check another en bloc clip and see if that caused it. Thanks!
 
Don't get embarrassed, It's always easier to see things from the outside in. That's what makes the forum great.
 
There are several things to consider:

What is the storage history of that ammunition? If it was stored in a hot environment, lets say in an attic where temperatures are frequently above 100 F, then the ammunition has aged. Heat ages gunpowder and combustion pressures rise at the end of ammunition shelf life.


3. Effects of Accelerated Storage Propellant and Primer Performance

To determine the effect of accelerated isothermal storage upon propellant and primer performance, sixty cartridges from each of lots E (WC 846) and G (R 1475) were removed from 150F storage after 26 and 42 weeks, respectively. The bullets were then removed from half the cartridges of each lot and from an equal number of each lot previously stored at 70F. The propellants were then interchanged, the bullets re-inserted, and the cases recrimped. Thus, four variations of stored components were obtained with each lot.

Chamber pressures yielded by ammunition incorporating these four variations were as follows. These values represent averages of 20 firings.


Pressurevariationsduetostoragetempertures-1.jpg

Then, what’s the age of the ammunition? I think the following post is an interesting look see into what ammunition companies think a safe storage life for their ammunition.


http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=527519

I'm sighting in my Remington 700 BDL .270 / Nikon 3X9 BDC today, and I decided to rotate old stock ammo. In this case, brand new (20 years ago), 130 grain ammo by a well known US ammunition Company. I bought several boxes of this brand, same lot, back in the early 90's after I discovered how wonderful they worked on woodchucks.
So I'm firing my 2nd round... WHAM! My mild .270 rifle bellows and whacks me in the glasses, odd I thought, as my .270's never kick like that.

The bolt won't open. I mean it is JAMMED. So after 5 min of banging on the bolt with my hand (HARD),it opens Ok, now the bolt draws back hard and the brass feels like its WELDED to the bolt face. I had to use a leatherman tool to pry it out. Rim was damaged, blackened, primer floating around, etc. Bolt appeared ok (Thank the Good Lord for Remington's 3 rings of steel protecting me!), and after switching ammo and using newer stock, the rifle functioned and sighted in 100% perfect. Scared the hell out of me though! This was factory ammo too, not reloads.

Ok, so I called Remington (ammo was early 90's vintage 130 grain Rem bronze point). They only back their ammo for 10 years (expected shelf life according to Remington). Note* I kept this ammo in a cool, dry place, sealed in a US Military ammo can for the past 2 decades. I have ammo from the 50's and 60's that still shoots fine. I guess with gunpowder, it's like rolling dice.

So, I'm glad the rifle is a Remington, as it was strong enough to take the hit without any damage, otherwise it would be my dime (and hide). I had our armorer (LEO), check it out as well. The bolt face appears ok, and I pulled the firing pin, ok as well. Damn strong rifle.
That brass was warped near the rim, I hate to guess what the PSI was, I'm betting well over 80,000 PSI, given how stiff that bolt was to open. If I can get a photo posted, I will.
Now I have several boxes of old .270 ammo to dispose of, as I'm not going to shoot it through my cherished 700 BDL anymore. At least the brass is still good and my right hand is still attached to my arm!
Time to go out and stock up on .270's!!!

Picher; Yes, bore was / is like a mirror. The rifle is a MINT early 80's BDL 700. No rust or pitting. She is one sexy rifle, it was love at first sight... The high gloss wood and rich, deep blue steel.... MMmmmmm!!!!

It was close to 90 on Sunday in Maine, and humid. The ammo has been stored correctly, but, after all, it HAS been 20 years or so. I know my knees are not the same as they were 2 decades ago, so I guess I can't expect the ammo to fair any better. It just caught me off guard, as I stock up on (and shoot), old ammo, and NEVER had any issue. I guess I need to rotate my supply more often...
 
I helped the guy pick up the lot after he bought it. It was a "take everything firearm related for X dollars" transaction. The loaded en bloc clips were found in a toolbox out in the garage (no conditioned). I feel fairly confident the ammo is at least 10 years old as the Garand was a roses purchase and looked like it hadn't been messed with in years.

Thanks for the reply - interesting stuff. I haven't had time to experiment with one of the other en bloc clip.
 
I helped the guy pick up the lot after he bought it. It was a "take everything firearm related for X dollars" transaction. The loaded en bloc clips were found in a toolbox out in the garage (no conditioned). I feel fairly confident the ammo is at least 10 years old as the Garand was a roses purchase and looked like it hadn't been messed with in years.

Thanks for the reply - interesting stuff. I haven't had time to experiment with one of the other en bloc clip.
 
Sorry about the double post - I have officially removed tapatalk from my phone for good. What a POS application.

Anyway, I got a hold of that en bloc clip and put rounds in and out, in and out. I wasn't able to replicate the etching on the headstamp at all. Additionally, I inspected the casing closely and the two etches match up where the two non-flat surfaces are located on the bolt face. On top of that you can see a small etch caused by the extractor. The etch caused by the extractor directly correlates with the theory that the two etches were caused by the two non-flat surfaces on the bolt face.

Given all this - Should I pull the ammo or shoot it with extra shoulder cushion?
 
I feel like this forum has significantly decreased my IQ. This is the third time the first reply to my thread was something I was embarrassed to have not thought of first. It is just so easy to jump on the forum and ask questions.. I will check another en bloc clip and see if that caused it. Thanks!
"Decreased your IQ"? That might explain things some days.
 
Sometimes I post before I think for myself. I'm usually pretty self sufficient but this whole hand loading thing has me doubting more stuff than not.
 
Sorry about the double post - I have officially removed tapatalk from my phone for good. What a POS application.

Anyway, I got a hold of that en bloc clip and put rounds in and out, in and out. I wasn't able to replicate the etching on the headstamp at all. Additionally, I inspected the casing closely and the two etches match up where the two non-flat surfaces are located on the bolt face. On top of that you can see a small etch caused by the extractor. The etch caused by the extractor directly correlates with the theory that the two etches were caused by the two non-flat surfaces on the bolt face.

Given all this - Should I pull the ammo or shoot it with extra shoulder cushion?
Ammo found in an unconditioned garage toolbox that's probably been sitting for 10 years??? Pull the bullets, dump the powder, re-use everything but the powder. That's what I'd do.
 
I wouldn't be concerned about the look of the case in question.

Pressures rise as ammo ages? Do ya'll know that? How do you know that as powder ages pressures don't fall?
 
It happens...I was running some reloads over the chrono a while back, I always fire an old stray factory round first to foul the bore some before checking speeds...I fired a factory Remington 165 grain load (plain old green box ammo) and that round chrono'd 2,985 fps...I knew as soon as shot it was a hot one, it was louder than normal and the recoil was quite noticeable too....the primer was all kinds of flat and had a pretty good ejector mark too.

Reminded my why I reload...I don't think it had anything to do with age...it was just a hot loaded round.
 
Any reason to believe it's factory ammo?

Is it possibly reloads?

If so, I wouldn't chance it with my eyes, fingers, gun etc.
 
Hmm...just a possibility, but does that ammo have a 150 gr. fmj projectile?

Reason I'm asking is that the CMP used to supply Federal ammo for the JC Garand matches at Camp Perry. I've been told (I didn't shoot that year) that the ammo supplied for the inaugural match was very hot, so much so as to damage op rods. It was toned down in subsequent years. That would have been about 12 or 13 years ago?

Laphroaig
 
.30-06 with a commercial headstamp in an en-bloc screams "reload". Pull and dump. Weigh the bullets before using.


^^^gotta agree with this. Odds are you are shooting someone else's reloads. This is someone you don;t know and you have no idea of how safe his reloading practices were and what firearms they were intended for.
 
A few years back I got a box of pmc 7x 57m/m 175 gr. sp factory loads. I fired 2 and quit, the recoil was exceptionaly heavy but when I looked at the primer and saw it had flowed into the chamfer of the primer pocket I quit. Never bought any pmc since. I had no doubt this was a sign of excessive pressure.
 
.30-06 with a commercial headstamp in an en-bloc screams "reload". Pull and dump. Weigh the bullets before using.
This may be the case - There was a .257 Roberts in the lot with some hand loads that indicated on the label that it was something like 15% over the maximum book value for the powder used. When we picked up the lot I shot the garand and the trigger assembly fell out the bottom of the weapon when it discharged. I wonder if that would have even happened if I had made up some ball replica ammo for it versus shooting the loads that were already in the clip... I have decided to pull it all and put up the projectiles/brass for a rainy day.
 
So I chronied 2 of those rounds yesterday. 2959 and 2943 fps. I pulled one of the projectiles and it was 150 grain. Fastest load in my manual for the same projectile is right at 2800fps at the max recommended load. Most max loads are closer to 2700 for that projectile.

So at least I confirmed that there is something fishy going on. Going to pull the rest. Definitely not going to shoot them in a Garand!
 
Your primer is not flattened so although velocities may have been unacceptably high you probably were OK.

What you are seeing there is the effect of very tight to zero headspace. The shoulder of the cartridge has met the chamber. Camming the bolt over has caused the bolt face to "wipe" a scratch onto the case. This would be a clear indication that the round are reloads and have probably only been neck sized.

Pull the lot, you appear to be shooting someone else's tailor made loads in a rifle never meant to shoot them.
 
I think you are mistaken on the max velocity in a 30-06 with a 150gr bullet.

Accurate/Ramshot has data exceeding 3100fps and Hodgdon has data exceeding 3000fps.
 
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