Primer and powder shortages
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freakshow10mm
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Gouging is inflating the price of a product or service when there are no other providers in the market. Learn your terms.
It is often used to describe it even when there are other providers, but they are taking advantage as well. Call it Capitalism, which it is, and I'm all for Capitalism in general, but when sellers do what they have done with primers, disgruntled buyers will call it gouging etc, and they will remember it. 
It's only natural.
It's only natural.
something vague
Member
I didn't realize this was a class in economic terminology. In all honesty it feels like my local shops are taking a spoon and "gouging" the hell out of me with it. Call it what you want but in my opinion my local shops are gouging prices as they know I can not purchase them elsewhere. That's definition according to what you quoted.
redneck2
Member
One of the problems with local dealers is that the suppliers may ship small quantities as available. One dealer I know got a single box of 1k primers and was charged the $20 hazmat fee. Ended up costing him almost $50 total. He sold them for a $10 loss and still got bitched at for gouging.
If you don't like the price, don't buy them. If everybody did that the price would come down real quick. My local dealer has all the primers you want (over 100k last time I was there) for $39.95, and $29.95 two weeks ago on special.
Funny, a few months ago everybody was bitching and moaning about AR's not being available. Now that there are plenty, all of a sudden no one wants them. Now, if there's talk of a new AWB, they'll fly off the shelves and everybody will be bitching once more.
Got a hint for ya...buy 'em while you can once the price is reasonable. I've got about 15k of primers on hand right now. Of course, when the next shortage hits, the idiots will be screaming that "you're hoarding". Damned right. That's the plan.
By Christmas I hope to have maybe 30k on hand. They don't go bad. They'll never be cheaper than $29.95.
If you don't like the price, don't buy them. If everybody did that the price would come down real quick. My local dealer has all the primers you want (over 100k last time I was there) for $39.95, and $29.95 two weeks ago on special.
Funny, a few months ago everybody was bitching and moaning about AR's not being available. Now that there are plenty, all of a sudden no one wants them. Now, if there's talk of a new AWB, they'll fly off the shelves and everybody will be bitching once more.
Got a hint for ya...buy 'em while you can once the price is reasonable. I've got about 15k of primers on hand right now. Of course, when the next shortage hits, the idiots will be screaming that "you're hoarding". Damned right. That's the plan.
By Christmas I hope to have maybe 30k on hand. They don't go bad. They'll never be cheaper than $29.95.
Last edited:
ranger335v
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"Everyone keeps saying the on-going war has dried up supplies, but no one has any Vihta Vuori powders. Explain that. "
Explaination:
First, it's not true.
The "on-going war" is at the lowest level it's been in some years. Likely the military arsenals are going full time for the gov. but not those companies that cater to us. What we are still seeing is panic buying at rip-off prices by gougers taking advantage of the artifical shortage.
Any "salesman" saying the gov is stopping distrubution of componenets is not mistaken, he's lying. Not that the gov. would not LIKE to do so, but the "Liberal" polititicans haven't gotten to us ... yet.
Explaination:
First, it's not true.
The "on-going war" is at the lowest level it's been in some years. Likely the military arsenals are going full time for the gov. but not those companies that cater to us. What we are still seeing is panic buying at rip-off prices by gougers taking advantage of the artifical shortage.
Any "salesman" saying the gov is stopping distrubution of componenets is not mistaken, he's lying. Not that the gov. would not LIKE to do so, but the "Liberal" polititicans haven't gotten to us ... yet.
freakshow10mm
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No, you can buy it from somewhere else. You may have to wait before you get what you want, but you are not limited to buying only from that one single source. You have other shops, internet forums, web based retailers, etc.
It is not capitalism, it's supply and demand economics.
What you are doing is whining.
R.W.Dale
Member
I disagree on your assesment
No this is a classic hail Mary fishing tactic thrown out there in hopes the customer is dumb enough to bite and thus buy a product the seller DOES have in stock
rfwobbly
Member
In July before the election, my local dealer was telling me that basically 'if the Democrats won the election, sales would probably be like they were during the Clinton years, when they couldn't keep a gun on the shelf they sold so fast.'
So I actually think the firearms industry is enjoying all this.
So I actually think the firearms industry is enjoying all this.
Sport45
Member
I have plenty of primers that I mail ordered and have sold some, at cost, to friends. As far as the retail stores go I think they are right to raise prices as they have, remaining competitive with each other. That's the only way to keep primers on the shelf for the reloader who only wants to buy a few hundred at a time. Keep in mind that for some people a few hundred primers is almost a lifetime supply.
IMHO, people looking to stockpile 10's or 100's of thousands should be getting them on-line from wholesalers and saving money. A C&R license is cheap and easy to get and provides dealer pricing for a lot of stuff.
IMHO, people looking to stockpile 10's or 100's of thousands should be getting them on-line from wholesalers and saving money. A C&R license is cheap and easy to get and provides dealer pricing for a lot of stuff.
Jon Coppenbarger
Member
I see a few small shops that have primers and powder and they try to keep the prices down. they are having problems getting primers and when ordering powder trying to get enough that is in stock to make a profit without gouging.
now maybe 1k primers might be $40 but I do not have to buy alot of them but just enough to get me threw. I like the fact they are willing to go out and hunt for them for folks like me and I know they will go back into the normal price range when and if things return to normal.
now the larger shops around just do not have them and if they get them in they last a day or so and are gone.
its the same for ammunition. I know when I go into my local small shop here the regular calibers are normal prices with some of the harder ones a little higher for the same reasons as primers.
now some powder and primers are still hard to find and are going to really get harder to find as they are in great demand. i have like 10k of the remington 7 1/2 benchrest primers and like 4k of the br4's. the 7.5 primers were $40 per 1k at camp perry and they sold out fast.
I heard folks complaining because some folks bought 20k, 30k or more of them at once. Now I understand alot of folks wanting some but when folks trying to support junior programs and teams have not been able to get them it becomes you buy them because you have no ideal whenor if you may get the chance again.
now maybe 1k primers might be $40 but I do not have to buy alot of them but just enough to get me threw. I like the fact they are willing to go out and hunt for them for folks like me and I know they will go back into the normal price range when and if things return to normal.
now the larger shops around just do not have them and if they get them in they last a day or so and are gone.
its the same for ammunition. I know when I go into my local small shop here the regular calibers are normal prices with some of the harder ones a little higher for the same reasons as primers.
now some powder and primers are still hard to find and are going to really get harder to find as they are in great demand. i have like 10k of the remington 7 1/2 benchrest primers and like 4k of the br4's. the 7.5 primers were $40 per 1k at camp perry and they sold out fast.
I heard folks complaining because some folks bought 20k, 30k or more of them at once. Now I understand alot of folks wanting some but when folks trying to support junior programs and teams have not been able to get them it becomes you buy them because you have no ideal whenor if you may get the chance again.
MikeS.
Member
@redneck2 "By Christmas I hope to have maybe 30k on hand. They don't go bad. They'll never be cheaper than $29.95."
You don't think so? I think they will once they are commonly available again. It happened in 1994 when primers became sparse back in 93-94. Prices in Calif. jumped from 12-14 a K to 25-30 range. By the end of 94 they were back down to the 14 dollar range.
You don't think so? I think they will once they are commonly available again. It happened in 1994 when primers became sparse back in 93-94. Prices in Calif. jumped from 12-14 a K to 25-30 range. By the end of 94 they were back down to the 14 dollar range.
redneck2
Member
So, what will they drop to? $25 instead of $29?.
If you look at basic economics, you'll understand that we will be into hyper inflation pretty soon. Obama is printing so much money that it devalues what is already in circulation.
Go out tomorrow and buy a 1962 dime. It costs you $1.25 today.
If you look at basic economics, you'll understand that we will be into hyper inflation pretty soon. Obama is printing so much money that it devalues what is already in circulation.
Go out tomorrow and buy a 1962 dime. It costs you $1.25 today.
something vague
Member
nevermind... apparantly all reloaders (including my grandfather and the likes) have interent access and reloading shops on every street corner to choose from. We don't all live metropolis USA. Have you ever been to the remote areas of Maine. I'm done, I got my economic terminology lesson already.
billybob44
Contributing Member
Some places still fair.
At the local gun club, I can still buy primers for $130 per 5K, when they have them-comes+goes. Bought 1# of 2400+1# of 296 on Sun. for $19 per. They make most of their $ on the Skeet/Trap shooters, and offer the supplies as an extra.
At the local gun club, I can still buy primers for $130 per 5K, when they have them-comes+goes. Bought 1# of 2400+1# of 296 on Sun. for $19 per. They make most of their $ on the Skeet/Trap shooters, and offer the supplies as an extra.I think a lot of you are missing the big picture here. Remember before this "shortage" came about, most primers could be had for less than $20/K.
Now most feel they will NEVER be less than $30/K. So, the hoarders continue to buy up more than they will ever use, further creating the incentive for those unscrupulous dealers to continue their gouging. It spreads to loaded ammo, powder, and everything connected with the shooting sports.
Problem? More than just escalating prices. What does the government do when they wish to get rid of something they deem unhealthy or undesirable, but don't wish to risk an outright ban? They increase the cost of that product by imposing high taxes making it unaffordable for many. Tobacco products are a good example.
But here we are contributing to driving up the cost where it could get to the point we lose shooters, and cannot attract new members into the shooting fraternity. When we lose members, it makes the government's job much easier to bring about a total ban on gun ownership.
This effects each and every one of us that have anything to do with this sport. The individual shooter, the gun manufacture, the bullet maker, the primer maker, powder, distributers, retailers, etc, etc. Kill the sport, and we ALL lose. It therefore should behove each and everyone of us to do whatever we can to keep the prices low. To insure we keep our 2nd Amendment rights, we need MORE members~~~not fewer. That's the big picture!
To those of you in Virginia and New Jersey~~~Good luck!! We here in the Socialist State of Illinois are pulling for you!
Now most feel they will NEVER be less than $30/K. So, the hoarders continue to buy up more than they will ever use, further creating the incentive for those unscrupulous dealers to continue their gouging. It spreads to loaded ammo, powder, and everything connected with the shooting sports.
Problem? More than just escalating prices. What does the government do when they wish to get rid of something they deem unhealthy or undesirable, but don't wish to risk an outright ban? They increase the cost of that product by imposing high taxes making it unaffordable for many. Tobacco products are a good example.
But here we are contributing to driving up the cost where it could get to the point we lose shooters, and cannot attract new members into the shooting fraternity. When we lose members, it makes the government's job much easier to bring about a total ban on gun ownership.
This effects each and every one of us that have anything to do with this sport. The individual shooter, the gun manufacture, the bullet maker, the primer maker, powder, distributers, retailers, etc, etc. Kill the sport, and we ALL lose. It therefore should behove each and everyone of us to do whatever we can to keep the prices low. To insure we keep our 2nd Amendment rights, we need MORE members~~~not fewer. That's the big picture!
To those of you in Virginia and New Jersey~~~Good luck!! We here in the Socialist State of Illinois are pulling for you!
rfwobbly
Member
Radaray... that is my exact point. The firearms industry is loving this. The NRA is not saying a thing. There is no "gun ban" and yet the "industry" and their political allies keep sending me emails every week warning me to be on guard. That is to say, the industry is the only one fanning the flames and by doing so "crying wolf".
This is a VERY short-sighted policy for true lovers of the 2nd Amendment.
Our only hope is to lay in a store of 20,000 primers before each national election so we can beat both sides.
This is a VERY short-sighted policy for true lovers of the 2nd Amendment.
Our only hope is to lay in a store of 20,000 primers before each national election so we can beat both sides.
No, I don't think so. The industry needs all the help they can get to cover all these stupid law suits. They certainly need all of us. Some of their cost increases have come about because of these suits.
But for them to "gouge" us would be self destructive. Don't forget that Al Gore stated that we don't need American firearm manufactures, as we could import all the weapons we might need for our military. I'm sure our manufactures have not forgotten that.
Right now it is a matter of supply and demand. Many of the manufactures of guns and components are working overtime to meet the demand (which adds cost). Any added demand that we place on them, only exacerbates the problem.
But for them to "gouge" us would be self destructive. Don't forget that Al Gore stated that we don't need American firearm manufactures, as we could import all the weapons we might need for our military. I'm sure our manufactures have not forgotten that.
Right now it is a matter of supply and demand. Many of the manufactures of guns and components are working overtime to meet the demand (which adds cost). Any added demand that we place on them, only exacerbates the problem.
ljnowell
Member
Well, here we go again. Somtimes there are no other providers. In the last year there has been anywhere from a 3 to 9 month wait for primers from online companies, so therefore they cannot be counted as a provider. When there is only one shop around that sells them and they charge 4x what they are worth, thats gouging.
Why am I not surprised though, to hear this argument coming from a commercial ammo reloader and manufacturer?
MulticalinMO
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Win 231 is available in the KC area at the wholesaler. It is now made by Hodgdon, also in the KC area.
Good Luck and you might point this FACT out to the dealers in question
Good Luck and you might point this FACT out to the dealers in question
W231 is still made by Winchester at their plant in St Marks, Florida.
The same powder from the same plant is also labelled HP-38 under Hodgdon's name.
Winchester assigned distribution to Hodgdon for all their powders, so you see it on the Hodgdon web site.
The same powder from the same plant is also labelled HP-38 under Hodgdon's name.
Winchester assigned distribution to Hodgdon for all their powders, so you see it on the Hodgdon web site.
Quote:
Gouging is inflating the price of a product or service when there are no other providers in the market. Learn your terms.
Well, here we go again. Somtimes there are no other providers. In the last year there has been anywhere from a 3 to 9 month wait for primers from online companies, so therefore they cannot be counted as a provider. When there is only one shop around that sells them and they charge 4x what they are worth, thats gouging.
Why am I not surprised though, to hear this argument coming from a commercial ammo reloader and manufacturer?
Commercial ammo reloader and manufacturer. Who?
One last point before I leave this thread. Ammo manufacturers (primers, powder, bullets, etc.) first priority is meeting the demands of our military. Because of the paranoia of those that chose to hoard components because of a liberal Administration winning an election, the added stress placed upon these manufacturers has created these shortages. Until that happened, there were no shortages and prices were reasonable.
Until this "me first" attitude ends, shortages and prices will remain as such.
Oh, and learn how to spell "lino".
Gouging is inflating the price of a product or service when there are no other providers in the market. Learn your terms.
Well, here we go again. Somtimes there are no other providers. In the last year there has been anywhere from a 3 to 9 month wait for primers from online companies, so therefore they cannot be counted as a provider. When there is only one shop around that sells them and they charge 4x what they are worth, thats gouging.
Why am I not surprised though, to hear this argument coming from a commercial ammo reloader and manufacturer?
Commercial ammo reloader and manufacturer. Who?
One last point before I leave this thread. Ammo manufacturers (primers, powder, bullets, etc.) first priority is meeting the demands of our military. Because of the paranoia of those that chose to hoard components because of a liberal Administration winning an election, the added stress placed upon these manufacturers has created these shortages. Until that happened, there were no shortages and prices were reasonable.
Until this "me first" attitude ends, shortages and prices will remain as such.
Oh, and learn how to spell "lino".
ljnowell
Member
Obviously I wasn't talking to you then, was I? No offense, but dont quote a post and attack it if you dont know what I am talking about, it just makes for more useless posts in an already stupid thread. If you must know, perhaps googling "freakshow" would help you some? I am not sure why you quoted me and then said something about "learning to spell" and I really dont care. I do not take time to spellcheck my internet postings, I leave that to people like you who have the time to do so.
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