Primer problem

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OlympicViking

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Today I took my 7mm-08 to the range to evaluate a hunting load I'm developing. The load involves Lapua brass, Barnes 120 gr TTSX, WLR primers, and Varget. Last weekend I fired 25 rounds in 5-shot groups ranging from 42.0 to 44.0 grains (first 25 casings starting from the left). I seated the bullets 0.060" off my lands to a COL of 2.850. The Barnes website lists 2.800" and a max charge of 43.9. My best group by far was 43.0 gr, and my second best was 42.5, so I decided to try 15 rounds at 42.8, 42.9, and 43.0 today. Well, two of my primers had a problem where a small hole on the side of the primer allowed gas to escape. One of them is pretty easy to see in the picture, and the other one is two to the right. There's also a small erosion mark on my bolt that I'm kinda pissed about, but from what I've read it shouldn't be a problem.

IMG_1676_zpsg3f6ubpi.jpg
IMG_1669_zpsevecmm4h.jpg

To be honest I'm scratching my head at this one. The charge weights I used today are all within the published range, and even when I previously loaded 1.0 gr hotter I did not have this problem. Unless I'm mistaken, none of the other 38 rounds I've fired have shown signs of overpressure. I realize my COL is different from the published load, but .05" longer shouldn't cause a pressure increase, right?

The brass has been fired twice, sized in a Redding body die, run through a Lee collet neck die, trimmed to 2.025", chamfered, and deburred. I also used a Lyman primer pocket uniforming tool and an RCBS case prep machine to clean out the primer pockets (they were already uniform when I got them, but the Lyman tool helps scrape out some of the carbon in the pocket). When I first got the brass the primer pockets were very tight (just like some new 9mm Lapua cases I loaded once before), but after the first firing they felt normal. Certainly not loose pockets. I left the remaining 10 cases unloaded & unprimed so that I could tweak seating depth slightly once I find the optimal charge weight and see if that will give me better accuracy.
 
If you goggle Winchester primer issues lots of complaints and some damaged bolt faces with their large rifle primers even with their other primers, their was a list of bad Winchester primer lot numbers, I would call Winchester and ask them about it , many folks have gotten refunds I guess when Winchester moved their plant , they have had some quality control issues, lots of info online on this, and from what I have read Winchester knows of this, I would not shoot anymore of those primers until you call Winchester, don't want to damage your rifle over a defective product,
 
maybe this is why Cabellas online shows Winchester primers as a different box with the corner marked new design? I don't know why Cabalas has them listed this way online but I would most definitely contact Winchester
 
Winchester primers are undersized, and in some that I have measured are under SAAMI minimum spec.

Combine that with a primer pocket that may be on the larger size (ironically, Winchester too) and you have the potential for gas leaking past and burning your bolt face.

I don't use anything Winchester anymore.
 
I too had problems with several Lot #'s of Winchester primers. I scored several bolt faces like the photo before I connected the dots.

I won't EVER buy another Winchester primer. Not only did they screw up the bolt faces, 2/3rds would not even fire in my Colt Light Rifle. I thought it was the gun, or brass, but could only replicate the problem with Winchester primers.

They got too "cheap" on materials.
First, they deleted the nickel plating. Then, they thinned down and shortened the brass cup to save on brass, and goofed up the annealing, which causes the cups to let go and blow out at the corner at the edge of the primer pocket.

No such problems with:
CCI, Federal, Remington, S&B, or even Russian Tula's.

Same thing they pulled with the rifles in 1964.
Goodbye, and good riddance.
 
I had a problem with WIN .223 brass splitting at the necks after 1 loading that had been perfect in LC brass for 6 firings. Now this. I will never give Winchester another dime.

Fortunately I have a brick of CCI large rifle primers I can use. Unfortunately I have to start over again and work up a new load. I love these TTSXs but they're muy expensivo!
 
I would also recommend contacting Winchester about this. I read on another forum about a guy who had the same thing happen and Winchester paid for his bolt to be replaced
 
OlympicViking said:
Today I took my 7mm-08 to the range to evaluate a hunting load I'm developing. The load involves Lapua brass, Barnes 120 gr TTSX, WLR primers, and Varget. Last weekend I fired 25 rounds in 5-shot groups ranging from 42.0 to 44.0 grains (first 25 casings starting from the left). I seated the bullets 0.060" off my lands to a COL of 2.850. The Barnes website lists 2.800" and a max charge of 43.9. My best group by far was 43.0 gr, and my second best was 42.5, so I decided to try 15 rounds at 42.8, 42.9, and 43.0 today. Well, two of my primers had a problem where a small hole on the side of the primer allowed gas to escape. One of them is pretty easy to see in the picture, and the other one is two to the right. There's also a small erosion mark on my bolt that I'm kinda pissed about, but from what I've read it shouldn't be a problem.
Click to expand...

I stopped buying brass finish WSR because the things pierced at loads that never bothered the nickle plated WSR. I ate up a handfull of AR15 firing pins, and have etch rings on the bolt face. I don't mind that too much on a AR15 because bolt replacement is a lot less than, lets say, a pre 64 M70. Try to find a pre 64 M70 bolt, for less than a home mortgage. Now I am using CCI#41 primers in my 223, they work great.

If you have any of these brass WLR and plan to use them, cut your loads. Aggressively cut your loads, at least a grain to 1.5 grains, and keep cutting them until all primer piercing stops.
 
I had them blowing out with light cast bullet loads, such as 16-20gr of #2400 in .30/06.
I used up the last of them in .30/30 with 7gr of GreenDot under Lee 150gr FNGC. The ones that let go, didn't have enough gas to hurt the bolt.
 
Before all else I would take a look at the primer pocket ID and the primer OD on any remaining primers you may have remaining. That should give you an idea as to the primer to cup fit. I hand prime and can tell by feel is my primers do not have a good primer to cup fit. While not the ideal tool a decent vernier caliper should show you what you have. If the primers are under size as suspected than I would contact Winchester with the primer information off the package.

Primer%20and%20Primer%20Pocket%20Dimensions%20SAAMI.png

Ron
 
This thread inspires so much confidence. I have 10k WLR primers sitting on my shelf that I haven't gotten to yet.:eek:
 
A factory Remington 7mm Express round made a similar etch on the bolt of a Ruger rifle I shot them in. When I looked at the other rounds, both fired and unfired, the metal primer cup material had inclusions between layers of the material. With a magnifier you could see the cracks at the bend forming the cup. The defects blew out on the last round I fired. Remington replaced the ammunition, but would't do diddly about the damage.

On the bright side, just before I fired the bad round and got a face full of gas I thought about shooting without glasses. It was late in the afternoon and I still had my sunglasses on, my clear glasses were in my vehicle. I decided it would be safer to shoot with my dark glasses than bare eyed, whew, lesson learned the easy way.
 
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