AJC1
Member
I would ask that you keep your judgement of others to yourself. Were here to have a good time, help people stay safe and I personally enjoy the comrodery of this page. Thanks.
Primers?
- Thread starter Patsy57
- Start date
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1K of small pistol primers is around two weeks of shooting for me. It's one afternoon of loading.
Some of us shoot....a lot.
kerreckt
Member
I do not believe it is hoarding when you buy as many as affordable when they are available. I call this planning ahead and being smart. Those that refer to this as hoarding, I refer to as fools.
irishlad
Contributing Member
I learned the hard way awhile back. Now I do my best to have a 2 year supply of primers, powder and bullets of everything I shoot.
I'm old enough (60) to remember my folks using statements like "They lived through the depression." to explain some behavior someone had - such as saving something to the point that seemed on the surface as unreasonable.
I believe most (all?) folks who have sufficient personal supply right now have gone through their version of an ammo/loading "depression". While I've shot all my life I was really stepping up my volume and reloading in the 2013/2014 era. I don't think I pulled the trigger on a gun in almost 12 months. During that whole time I said "Never again will I get caught like that."
The line between hoarder and "being prepared" is very fine and very subjective. If someone is buying something that they will ultimately use themselves, no matter how much they already have, I have a hard time being critical of. But these folks that create a business for themselves of buying stuff so they can put a 4x higher price on it at a gun show drive me crazy. I know well and I'm a huge believer in the free market and capitalism, but that feels more like raw greed rather than building a true business.
I believe most (all?) folks who have sufficient personal supply right now have gone through their version of an ammo/loading "depression". While I've shot all my life I was really stepping up my volume and reloading in the 2013/2014 era. I don't think I pulled the trigger on a gun in almost 12 months. During that whole time I said "Never again will I get caught like that."
The line between hoarder and "being prepared" is very fine and very subjective. If someone is buying something that they will ultimately use themselves, no matter how much they already have, I have a hard time being critical of. But these folks that create a business for themselves of buying stuff so they can put a 4x higher price on it at a gun show drive me crazy. I know well and I'm a huge believer in the free market and capitalism, but that feels more like raw greed rather than building a true business.
eyeshot
Member
I am referring to the new gun owners, record sales you know, that came into reloading out of a necessity. That being no ammunition on the shelves.
What we do here is a hobby or sport, for the most part, and if we have our defensive ammo I am saying that curtailing the quantities we purchase might change our plinking lifestyles but not our life. However, the new gun owner has a glorified club in this current environment.
The mindset I see here is no different than the toilet paper run that we still haven't recovered from. Or the run on rib-eyes . . . just kidding.
I'm obviously not convincing anyone but I have enjoyed the back and forth and have learned a few things about human nature.
Happy plinking.
kmw1954
Member
Impulse buying, hording or cost savings buying?
Member hound 6k primers and bought them, so what! Good for him, take advantage of what you can find during a bad situation.
A month or so ago Powder Valley finally had LPP in stock with a limit od 5k. I was down to my last 600 and in the middle of working up some new cast boolit loads in 45acp as soon as I was alerted I went and ordered the limit. They had them, I bought them and I will not be shamed because someone else cant find any! At that time I had been looking and watching for LPP for months and when they became available I bought what I could. Also to limit myself to buying just 1k at that time would have been plain stupid, shipping and Hazmat charges would have made them ridiculously cost expensive.
Same story goes last summer a shop a couple hour from me always carries everything, that is there business, they are not a GUN STORE, I was up in the area and stopped in also because Winchester was having a rebate. They were out of LPP already at that time, any and all LPP that is,. Winchester had a dollar purchase limit an the rebate and as it worked out that was 7 bricks. My intention was to buy 5k SPP and 2k LPP but because they were out of stock I purchased the whole 7k in SPP. with the understanding that I would not have to make that trip again for a couple years.
To those that are out and can't find any, sorry, keep looking, but I am NOT going to SHAME anyone for buying what they can. With this last purchase I should be good for 2 years and hopefully by then this will be over and we are not in another Civil War!
Member hound 6k primers and bought them, so what! Good for him, take advantage of what you can find during a bad situation.
A month or so ago Powder Valley finally had LPP in stock with a limit od 5k. I was down to my last 600 and in the middle of working up some new cast boolit loads in 45acp as soon as I was alerted I went and ordered the limit. They had them, I bought them and I will not be shamed because someone else cant find any! At that time I had been looking and watching for LPP for months and when they became available I bought what I could. Also to limit myself to buying just 1k at that time would have been plain stupid, shipping and Hazmat charges would have made them ridiculously cost expensive.
Same story goes last summer a shop a couple hour from me always carries everything, that is there business, they are not a GUN STORE, I was up in the area and stopped in also because Winchester was having a rebate. They were out of LPP already at that time, any and all LPP that is,. Winchester had a dollar purchase limit an the rebate and as it worked out that was 7 bricks. My intention was to buy 5k SPP and 2k LPP but because they were out of stock I purchased the whole 7k in SPP. with the understanding that I would not have to make that trip again for a couple years.
To those that are out and can't find any, sorry, keep looking, but I am NOT going to SHAME anyone for buying what they can. With this last purchase I should be good for 2 years and hopefully by then this will be over and we are not in another Civil War!
higgite
Member
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2009
- Messages
- 2,080
I’m all for new gun owners and am sorry if any are having trouble finding ammo and feel they must now reload but can’t find primers, either. Perhaps they should have become new gun owners and/or reloaders back when ammo and primers were plentiful, instead of coincident with the current shortage that they have helped create.
Regarding the run on toilet paper that you mentioned, (nice pun, btw) luckily for me, I knew from previous experience that I would need toilet paper in the near future and had just purchased a 6 pack that got me through the crisis. I’ll have to agree with you on one thing, though… you’re not convincing anyone.
748
member
I just small rifle primers, stopped buying small pistol primers during the great primer shortage of 2008 and never looked back.
AJC1
Member
One thing that started the last go around was questions and responses aka statements from the factories. I have not seen anything from the major manufacturers, but a few bullet makers have put out info. Rmr seems to communicate well but the rest of the supply chain seems quite or I'm not in the loop. If I am indeed in the dark please show me the light. Are they operating full shifts, round the clock, hindered by covid???
So far this drought seems to be no different than the others - in terms of what is in short supply, how people are behaving, etc.
Given how other businesses seem to be handling the there-is-a-virus-but-we're-not-locked-down scenario (restaurants, etc.) I would think the component manufacturing companies are able to work full shifts, etc. Maybe THEIR components are hard to get. (On the bullet side I buy from Bayou Bullets. Their site says they're buying raw materials at "historic levels" and they're working huge amounts of overtime.) I've read anecdotally that modifying center fire manufacturing lines for different calibers is relatively easy but increasing production for rimfire (and I presume primers in general) is very difficult.
Just yesterday I was talking to a shooting friend who speculated an interesting scenario: The primer manufacturers (CCI, Remington, Winchester) also make ammunition (obviously). If you're faced with a run on ammunition and reloading components - where are you most likely to direct your primer production? Presumably ammunition is higher margin. So a much higher percentage than normal of primers may be going to ammunition manufacturing - at the expense of selling of primers for reloading.
Project355
Member
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2020
- Messages
- 672
Hoarding... not good. Spreading the cost of that hazmat charge over more product makes things bearable. I try to get 5k primers and a few lbs of powder at a time cuz of that.
It's the panic buying the cleaning of the shelf so no one else can have any is what is objectionable. The selfish "I gotta get mine before someone else does" attitude is what is objectionable to most. If that doesn't apply to you, if you were out of primers and needed 2 bricks to get reloading ammo, rather just buying them because they were on the shelf, then excuse me...
grammontS
Member
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2020
- Messages
- 172
Exactly , I like to go shooting on the weekend after putting in my 60hrs a week of work , if I want to blow off 300 rounds on a Saturday or Sunday that is my choice. One person replied and said " just making noise" , so be it if that's what I choose to do. I didnt realize I was going to get someones panties in a bunch by stating that I bought what was available. The shop still had a pile of small pistol magnum primers available ......... Maybe I'll go buy those this week seeing that I've read on here that they can be used in regular small pistol rounds as well.
packetloss
Member
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2020
- Messages
- 450
Agreed. 1K of primers is like filling your car up with 1 gallon of gas. Better than nothing, but filling up the tank isn't hoarding gas.
Howland937
Member
SPP primers are harder to find because popular calibers of ammo are scarce. It's no longer cheaper to buy than load for most ammo the way some stuff had been, since you can hardly get that ammo at all.
Or filling your car, truck, every can and a couple 55 gallon drums. If you find it cheap and stock up, it's not hoarding. If you use a lot and buy a lot, it's not hoarding. If you buy it just because it's there and never use it...well, it's still your choice.
I have a few thousand SPP and I haven't even started loading anything with them yet. Haven't needed to since I haven't needed 9mm ammo and never loaded .380 or .45 because I bought out a former shop owner of thousands of rounds for each. But I'm gonna start this week.
There was a time back when I first started to reload that I perceived "X" quantity to be an enormous amount.
My perceptions now are that a "50-100 X" quantity would be enormous.
Some SPP's came up at PV a few weeks ago. 5k limit. Thought about it. Actually wished I could have gotten 10k for economic reasons. Thought about what I had on-hand,,, compared to how much I shoot. Decided I can wait.
LGS recently had 1k of SMR primers in stock. I could have put them to good use, but again, I thought about what I had on-hand. Decided I can wait.
Like others have said, in times like these, a person really needs to keep and eye on ad's/ brick and mortar locations / websites. (Daily, if you are truly in need.)
I'm in need of nothing, but I still keep my eye's open.
My perceptions now are that a "50-100 X" quantity would be enormous.
Some SPP's came up at PV a few weeks ago. 5k limit. Thought about it. Actually wished I could have gotten 10k for economic reasons. Thought about what I had on-hand,,, compared to how much I shoot. Decided I can wait.
LGS recently had 1k of SMR primers in stock. I could have put them to good use, but again, I thought about what I had on-hand. Decided I can wait.
Like others have said, in times like these, a person really needs to keep and eye on ad's/ brick and mortar locations / websites. (Daily, if you are truly in need.)
I'm in need of nothing, but I still keep my eye's open.
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bobinoregon
Member
When I'm ordering primers I consider 5000 to be a minimum per size. I buy whatever I can afford whenever I see them on sale so I'm a long ways from short for this little current fiasco. I'm also one of those people who enjoys sometimes just going out and making some noise to entertain myself and a friend or two.
2ndtimer
Member
In the past few weeks, I was pleasantly surprised to find CCI-500 primers ON SALE at The local Sportsman’s Warehouse for just $23.99 per brick, I bought two and left one on the shelf the first trip. A few days later, I stopped in again, and found them again, at the same price, now with a 1 brick limit. I bought another brick. They also had a one brick limit on Federal Small Rifle Match primers at $27.99, so I picked up one of those, too. Several days later, stopped in again and was surprised they still had some of the Federal on the shelf, so I grabbed another.
When I find what I consider bargains on products I like, and will use, I tend to buy. I may not use them for some time, but eventually I know I will. It is not hoarding, it is stocking up when you encounter a product for sale at a price you consider attractive. I will be the last person to clear a shelf of primers priced at $4.99 a sleeve. (Unless the price rises to $10 a sleeve and I am out. Both unlikely to occur). I do the same thing on powder and bullets. I recall ordering three 8 lb kegs of Ramshot TAC, when it was offered online for $79.99 per keg (yeah, it was a while ago). I eventually used it up and more recently ordered a pair of 8 lb’ers online for $129.95 each on sale.
The point is, always be on the lookout and when you see a deal, do not hesitate. You snooze, you lose.
When I find what I consider bargains on products I like, and will use, I tend to buy. I may not use them for some time, but eventually I know I will. It is not hoarding, it is stocking up when you encounter a product for sale at a price you consider attractive. I will be the last person to clear a shelf of primers priced at $4.99 a sleeve. (Unless the price rises to $10 a sleeve and I am out. Both unlikely to occur). I do the same thing on powder and bullets. I recall ordering three 8 lb kegs of Ramshot TAC, when it was offered online for $79.99 per keg (yeah, it was a while ago
). I eventually used it up and more recently ordered a pair of 8 lb’ers online for $129.95 each on sale. The point is, always be on the lookout and when you see a deal, do not hesitate. You snooze, you lose.
wankerjake
Member
Jason Forbes
Member
None that I can find anywhere. I keep an eye on the web, but with work and life, by the time I see them available, they're already gone. It's been a bit disheartening to me personally. I recently got back into shooting and decided to reload 9mm. I have been reloading rifle for a while, so I have the equipment. Ordered what I needed for 9mm and primers are the only thing I can't find. Hoping sooner or later they will come back in stock. It is making me think though.... as I'm sure it is others as well.... if you plan to shoot, or have the ability to keep X number of rounds on hand, what you need to buy when you can get it in stock. I still consider myself very new to reloading as I've done only several thousand rounds and always just bought stuff when I needed it... but this has changed my thinking a little.
Cowhide Cliff
Member
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2015
- Messages
- 1,089
That’s pretty much it, buy when stock is getting low or there is a big sale.
I am a little short on cci450 and fed 210m because they were recent 1K purchases to try in something new. Since they have worked well for those applications, when the supply chain catches up I’ll buy more, waited a bit to late, so now I wait, but I do have other options, so I’m not overly concerned about it
My new to reloading shooting buddy is completely out of primers, so I’ll be supplying him.
jebova2301
Member
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2013
- Messages
- 182
I could not agree more with buying BEFORE you need them. Last year, I ordered 24k fiocchi small rifle magnum primers, and another 12k fiocchi small pistol primers. I had so many friends asking me what on God's green earth I needed to buy that many for, when I already had about 2k of each left over. My neighbor was in astonishment that I bought that many, but he is the kind of guy that will shoot maybe 50-100 rounds in a month, and only kept a box or two of ammo on hand. I simply explained that I had been through the panic in 2012/2013. I understand how the shortages go. This year, there WAS going to be a shortage leading up to and after the election. Keeping this as non-political as possible, I saw two results coming from the elections. If a Democrat wins, gun owners are going to panic buy nonstop, which will create a shortage. If Trump wins, I expect there to be massive riots from groups on the left, which would drive a shortage. Personally, I expected it to hit somewhere between 3-6 months before the election, but the beer flu and riots sped that up a bit. My buying last year was simply me planning for the next year or so when I knew it was going to be difficult to find things. Knowing this year was an election year, and after the way we saw a run on ammo and supplies leading into the 2016 election, it was inevitable that there would be a run on them this year, too.
Now, as for why I could possibly use THAT many primers, it's because I live on 180 acres, I work nonstop, and shooting is one of the things that I truly enjoy, so I go shooting on my own property when I want to get some stress relief. It's not uncommon for me to go through 500 rounds of rifle ammo in a weekend, and another couple hundred of 9mm. Doing some math, what I bought when the supplies were plentiful was enough to last me about a year at my normal shooting pace. Looking back, I wish I had gotten twice what I did when they were on sale so cheap. That said, I have cut back on my shooting some. Now I may go through 200 or so rounds of .223 a weekend, and 100 or so of 9mm in an effort to stretch my supply out further. In my view, if anything, the people that I have had complain about me buying so many ahead of time should be the ones THANKING me rather than berating me, as I have no intent to go out and buy any reloading supplies right now. If nothing else, me NOT buying during the panic is saving some for those other people that were unprepared. The only primers I have bought in the last 6 months was a brick of Large Rifle Magnum primers that I ordered last week to use in reloading for an old Mauser my grandfather brought back from WW2. Considering how rarely I shoot it, I full well expect that one brick of primers to last a couple years.
Lastly, and I'm sure I am going to get a lot of hate for this, but if I see something that I am low on and I have the opportunity and means to buy a significant amount of it, I am going to. I won't let an opportunity pass when it is uncertain that it is an opportunity I will have again any time in the near future. I won't bank on "well, maybe it will be out there later when I run out." If the opportunity is there, I am going to take it. I won't apologize for that attitude, either. Luckily, I had the foresight from previous experiences to understand that this would likely happen again soon, and stocked up heavily BEFORE all this happened so I didn't find myself in that situation AFTER it happened. I understand it is rough for the the people who just got into reloading or shooting, and I understand they are having a hard time. At the same time, if the items are there on the shelf to be sold, I don't believe someone else should inconvenience themselves just because someone else picked an unfortunate time to start.
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