Private party sale opinion

[GRIZ22]

Unauthorized use of NCIC is a crime punishable by up to 5 years and $250,000. That's a pretty big risk to ask any LEO to take to do you a favor.

 

[entropy]

I'd still like to know how many members here actually live in a place where the local police WILL call in an NCIC check on a gun you're thinking of buying. Lots of people mention it, but I don't think that's as common as we're lead to believe.

Calling the ATF isn't going to do anybody any good. They don't run the checks, the FBI does. And neither one is going to do anything at all (of this sort) for a private individual.

Before NCIC, the local PD checked ser. #'s against their list of hot guns for the shop I worked at. I got a good deal on a S&W M19 when it came up clean at the PD, but the shop still wouldn't buy it.

 

[Waveski]

The world is full of Glocks. Find a situation in which you are more comfortable.

 

[Axis II]

What? No way. A gun shop is buying your used gun to turn a profit on it. There's no way they'll pay you more than a portion of it's current market value. Person-to-person sales are always the best way to get good money out of a gun.

Example: A used Glock is, let's say $400 in the local dealer's case. You walk in with your identical used Glock, he's going to offer you between $200-300 for it because he's got no interest in it beyond selling it to the next guy and pocketing the difference between what he paid and what he sold it for. Not worth it if he's going to give you market price and sell it for market price.

Your neighbor sees he could buy a used Glock for $400 from that dealer, plus pay transfer fees and sales tax, so call it $450. But he could buy yours for $375 or even $400 and get a much better deal while you pocket maybe twice as much cash.


NOBODY goes to a gun shop to sell a used gun and expects to get a good price for it. Private sales are the only way to go unless you're trading it on something else or you really just don't care about the money.

If the "pawn" guy is giving you $100 for it when a gun store would give $200 im going to the gun store. Last time i seen him he had a nice Winchester shotgun he gave someone $80 for and online value was like $300. What im getting at is why would someone call a buy and sell number in the news paper to flip a gun and take the lowest price possible. either its hot or the person has no clue what they have. Now i would call a buy and sell ad to sell a chain saw but never a firearm. the thought would never cross my mind. I would visit gun shows, gun shows, call friends, etc before calling some new paper ad. The guy did have glocks that he gave people $100 for in a loan or purchased and sold them for $200. to me that screams hot gun if someones letting a glock or any handgun go for $100, again to a news paper pawn shop.

 

[Axis II]

I'd still like to know how many members here actually live in a place where the local police WILL call in an NCIC check on a gun you're thinking of buying. Lots of people mention it, but I don't think that's as common as we're lead to believe.

Calling the ATF isn't going to do anybody any good. They don't run the checks, the FBI does. And neither one is going to do anything at all (of this sort) for a private individual.

simple phone call doesn't hurt or cost anything.

 

[Sam1911]

If the "pawn" guy is giving you $100 for it when a gun store would give $200 im going to the gun store.

Ok, sure, but I've never heard of anyone running an illegal informal pawn business before and you certainly can't advertise that. However people can and do list guns for sale in classifieds all day every day week in and week out.

Your pretty unusual scenario of someone conducting a shady, illegal, business can't trump the extremely common reality of buying and selling guns via classified ads. I'll say that the paper classifieds are becoming less of a factor now that sites like Armslist and Gunbroker do the same thing, but person-to-person sales are how hundreds of thousands of gun transactions are done every year.

Last time i seen him he had a nice Winchester shotgun he gave someone $80 for and online value was like $300.

Ok. But if he's running an illegal pawn operation that might make sense. But how does he even advertise this illegal pawn deal without getting busted?

If he's straight up buying that gun, not everyone knows what guns are worth, or cares to haggle. Maybe that owner took his common, bottom-tier shotgun into a dealer and only got offered $50 for it, because the dealer knows he can't flip it for much. That happens A LOT. Dealers aren't under any obligation to buy whatever common junk you own, and will often offer a price so low that it's practically like they're doing you a favor to take your gun. Your pal offered $30 more than the owner would have gotten.

What im getting at is why would someone call a buy and sell number in the news paper to flip a gun and take the lowest price possible.

See above. If this shotgun is only $300 new, it's practically worthless to a dealer as a used item. Many will flat out tell a seller that they aren't interested at all, or low-ball with a number so low that they can't lose on it.

either its hot or the person has no clue what they have.

Either one is possible. Only one of those two possibilities is actually illegal.

The guy did have glocks that he gave people $100 for in a loan or purchased and sold them for $200. to me that screams hot gun if someones letting a glock or any handgun go for $100, again to a news paper pawn shop.

Again, somehow you know a guy who is apparently running a completely illegal operation. Actually, completely illegal from two angles. One of which is the unlicensed pawn operation. The other is that if he's buying and selling guns this often making all these profitable deals, then he's clearly operating as an unlicensed gun dealer as well, which a serious federal crime. Could he be handling some guns that are stolen? Sure could. If that gets him investigated, it would be only one of his several big problems.


I say all this to explain that your example is REALLY odd and unusual, not the norm. The phenomenon of buying and selling guns by classified ads is VERY common and completely legitimate. Nothing shady about it. Lots of good deals to be had.

 

[Sam1911]

simple phone call doesn't hurt or cost anything.

What is a simple phone call? Calling the ATF and asking them to run a gun's serial number? Through a database they DON'T have? Have you tried this? What's the point if that's not a function they could or would perform?

Sure it's a simple phone call. Might as well call the FAA, the DEA, and the AFSCME as well. None of them will run gun numbers for you either.

 

[mjsdwash]

I would not keep a used firearm that did not go through a theft check. Im generally not worried about buying a stolen firearm from someone, but there is always the small risk it is wanted for involvement in a crime, and the much higher risk that a previous owner from who knows when finds it missing, forgetting he sold it in 1962 and reports it stolen, or if a person keeps records of purchase, but no disposal, and an estate handler or next of kin reports it. I have never had a problem getting police to check for the serial number in several department. Its the database they use for pawnbroakers.

 

[JO JO]

Unauthorized use of NCIC is a crime punishable by up to 5 years and $250,000. That's a pretty big risk to ask any LEO to take to do you a favor

years ago I worked on river patrol and it was not uncommon to find folks with guns on boats in the waterways, and every time we did we took control of said weapon, cleared the weapon then ran the SN# on every on of them can you imagine the look on their eyes if in came back stolen talk about a bad day, this is why I asked I would not want to be out and about with my family and find out I am toting around a hot gun when a simple check could of avoided this,

 

[Axis II]

What is a simple phone call? Calling the ATF and asking them to run a gun's serial number? Through a database they DON'T have? Have you tried this? What's the point if that's not a function they could or would perform?

Sure it's a simple phone call. Might as well call the FAA, the DEA, and the AFSCME as well. None of them will run gun numbers for you either.

doesn't hurt to call them and ask and then find out they cant do it. I'm sure a lot of people on here don't have the knowledge of what the govt can and cant do but asking doesn't hurt. i guess now everyone knows don't bother any LE with our questions.

 

[Sunray]

Having the box is irrelevant. So's the S/N. Not having the mags or any proof of ownership and 'just happening to be in your area' rings bells.
"...NOBODY goes to a gun shop to sell a used gun and..." Yes, they do. Read some of the "That gun shop tried to rip me off." posts. Most shooters have no idea how gun shops work and think prices paid for the used firearms the shop buys/evaluates are based on retail prices. They're not. Dealers base the values on their wholesale cost and how fast they think they can sell the thing.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

When I was in Gainesville FL you could call the local police switchboard to run a serial number (back in the 90s). Your request is perfectly reasonable.
It might be just plain paranoia. I was buying a router on line once and I needed to know if it would run the custom firmware I wanted to put on it. That same brand and model has 6 or 7 processor/ram combinations differentiated only by serial number and only 2 or 3 were compatible with the firmware I wanted to use. When I asked the seller for the serial number she freaked out and would no longer answer my emails.

Mike

 

[GRIZ22]

years ago I worked on river patrol and it was not uncommon to find folks with guns on boats in the waterways, and every time we did we took control of said weapon, cleared the weapon then ran the SN# on every on of them can you imagine the look on their eyes if in came back stolen talk about a bad day, this is why I asked I would not want to be out and about with my family and find out I am toting around a hot gun when a simple check could of avoided this,

Yes that would be convenient but that's not the way it is. If public access to NCIC were allowed what would it be limited to. When you make a query NCIC knows who's making it, the ORI. However, the law also requires records made of to whom it was released. That means a record needs to be made of Joe Blow requesting a serial number check on Colt, serial number 123456. That would create a de facto gun registration. Query records are kept. I wouldn't be surprised if they could recover what queries I made and I retired 12 years ago.

There are a multitude of negative issues I can think of allowing public access to NCIC.

 

[Sam1911]

Wow, maybe we aught to merge these threads, but if you know how NCIC actually works, please do post in this thread: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ic-check-for-stolen-gun.827571/#post-10664484

 

[Hokkmike]

Follow your gut. Another deal will come along. I do not it think it unreasonable nor suspicious to withhold a serial number.

 

[bobinoregon]

I've bought a lot of guns over the years through the local ad papers and never had the slightest problem. Unfortunately Oregon started requiring background checks for private sales and the private party ads really dropped off in the papers. I'd say at least three quarters of the guns I own were bought as private party used

 

[coyotehitman]

so I found a handgun I was interested in at a price I like G17 gen 4 on a local forum to me,
but the seller did not have the original box,or the back straps, or the 3 mags gust the gun, he also is on the opposite side of the state them me but said he was going to be in my area this weekend,
so I was going to do this but I also asked him if he was the original owner/buyer he said no he traded for it, OK so I asked him if he could give me the SN# before he came down to meet up so I can maybe have the SN# checked out to ensure this is a clean gun, he replied NO I dont give out the SN# , I did not feel good about this and backed out of the deal !!
1, Not original buyer
2. Traded into it unknown past
3. No factory box or factory stuff that came in box
4. Refused to give me the SN# before we meet up on a gun I was going to buy ?
What say you guys am I just paranoid ? something did not feel right to me so I backed out
I normally am good with private gun sales but for some reason this on kind of felt strange ?
would you all of made the deal or questioned the guns history first as well ?

Yes very paranoid. I wouldn't have sold to you.

 

[JO JO]

I have bought and sold several guns private party no issues at all, that said as a buyer I feel it is a reasonable request to know I am buying a clean firearm from an unknown seller if I am uncomfortable, if the seller is unwilling to allow a check of meet somewhere that it can be checked at my expense then I will walk away,
If I suspect the item maybe hot then forget it why is it unreasonable to check if the gun is clear?

 

[Elkins45]

I advertised a somewhat unusual gun on another forum. A guy asked me about it and asked about shipping. When he told me where he was I told him I was going to be very nearby in a couple of weeks to see the solar eclipse. Since it was out of state we met at his FFL to do the transfer, but how would that have sounded otherwise?

Do what makes you comfortable. It's not like another Glock won't pop up today (and the next, and the next, and...)

 

[Reloadron]

The decision to buy or not buy a gun under any conditions or circumstances rest solely with you, the prospective buyer. What I may or may not think really matters not. Would I buy a handgun in this case? Yeah, but matters not. I can sell you a dozen handguns less box, sales receipts and original magazines, take them or leave them. I have no idea how many times some of my guns have changed hands but if I want to sell a gun and you choose not to buy it someone else will. Your choice, buy or pass and what I would have done matters not.

Ron

 

[JONWILL]

People horse trade for guns all the time. If you worry about every used gun you buy being stolen, maybe you should stick with new guns. Virtually ANYTHING you buy used could be stolen property.

This is the correct answer. I go to Flea Markets every so often. Had a guy with a trailer load of tools, snow blower, lawn mower etc...

One guy who went had a robbery two weeks before. The guy was selling all of the stuff that was stolen. Called the Police and got it back. Seller was arrested.

What is so dumb is the guy was selling the stuff in the same small town he stole it in. lol

 

[Decoy80]

I wasn't trying to infer that the local PD had to run numbers for me, in fact they don't have to. But had the firearm been stolen I could very well have lost my money and a conviction for receiving stolen property could very well have removed a right I hold dear and do not take lightly. I haven't called very often but trust has to be earned and if I haven't known the person long enough to be confident in their word I can't trust them any farther than I could throw them. I didn't fall off the proverbial turnip truck yesterday. I've let many good deals pass if I felt they were too good to be legit or if I knew the seller might be telling me what they thought I wanted to hear too. You would be better off without it than trying to explain the deal to PD if later you were stopped and it came back stolen. Sure you could dole out the info on the person you dealt with and work with PD by giving testimony in court then if they dropped the receiving stolen property charges on you would you win.I think not. I used to be more naive about just about lots of things. I don't know where I first heard it but it goes kinda like this: Knowledge is power, true, ignorance is bliss,true,and too much knowledge is a curse, also true.
Please be careful in your dealings and may you always be lucky

 

[Ignition Override]

Via Armslist I've sold handguns: German PPK/S, two Polish P83s, a CZ-82.

Rifles via Armslist: all original Saiga 7.62x39, Mini 30, Mini 14, Yugo Mauser, two M1 Garands, two Enfields.

No potential seller asked for any serial numbers, and vice versa when I bought AKs, SKS etc. Four handguns in 9x18 were extremely simple as the seller also belongs to the large private club.

 

[Danoobie]

Trust your gut instinct. It seems you are looking for a gun with the box
and original equipment, anyway.

OTOH, many folks are going to be reluctant to give out serial #s.

 

[Sav .250]

A bill of sale from him with all the details (signed by him of course ) And I`d be the new owner.
But that`s just me.