Private transactions across state lines?

[buy guns]

Hope this section is ok to post this question in. Does anyone know the legalities of two people from different states doing a private, in person transaction between each other? This would be an Illinois resident selling to an Indiana resident.

 

[3pairs12]

I am not sure about up there, but down here you can go to the nieghboring state for a private transaction on LONG guns.

 

[Solo Flyer]

Here are the ATF regs.You are from 2 different states.The GCA of 1968 applies.You cannot perform the transaction legally face to face.

[18 U.S.C. 921(a)(32), 922(g)(8) and 925(a)(1)]

(B7) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?[Back]

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]



(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? [Back]


A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]


(B9) May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity? [Back]


Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

 

[VARifleman]

You have to go through an FFL whenever the gun changes hands between people who live across state lines or if state law requires it between two residing parties. Now, if the IL resident wants to go to an Indiana FFL, and meet the buyer from Indiana, I haven't seen anything that would make that illegal, but I don't know for sure.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Here are the ATF regs.You are from 2 different states.The GCA of 1968 applies.You cannot perform the transaction legally face to face.

You cited sections pertaining to shipping interstate, not face-to-face sales.

Face-to-face sales of handguns are not allowed. Face-t-face sales on long guns are allowed, IF the two states involved meet the definition of "contiguous" states, and if such sales are allowed under the laws of both states.

 

[MartinBrody]

You still need to go through an FFL, even FTF. Here are the applicable regs.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1

(B1) To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA? [Back]

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

(B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA? [Back]

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

(B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State? [Back]

A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]

 

[VARifleman]

Absolutely 100% wrong Aguila!

§ 922. Unlawful acts

(a) It shall be unlawful --

(1) for any person --

(A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer, to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or in the course of such business to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce; or

 

[buy guns]

Ok I thought going through an FFL might be the only way. Thanks guys.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Absolutely 100% wrong Aguila! and 3pairs12

+1 It's against Federal Law to purchase long or handguns privately between two residents of different states. State laws allowing purchases of long guns in contiguous states are from FFL's only and are in place to comply with 18 USC 922 b(3) (setting forth the conditions of sales):

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or
deliver--
(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has
reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is
a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of
business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business is
located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale
or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other
than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if
the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the
transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed
manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of
this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to
have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances
of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a
firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting
purposes;

 

[Solo Flyer]

This rule seems to be quite absolute:
(B7) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?[Back]

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State.

Note the word "firearm",not handgun.
NavyLT,I was typing while you were posting.Thank you.

 

[Gator]

Now, if the IL resident wants to go to an Indiana FFL, and meet the buyer from Indiana, I haven't seen anything that would make that illegal, but I don't know for sure.

If the Illinois resident transfered the firearm to the Indiana FFL, then the FFL transfered it to the Indiana resident, it would be perfectly legal.

 

[zxcvbob]

If the Illinois resident dies and leaves the gun (handgun or long gun, it doesn't matter) to the Hoosier in his/her will, no FFL would be necessary for the transfer. There's a federal law specifically about this. HTH

 

[bigjohnson]

Everyone repeat after me:

"THERE IS NO CONTIGUOUS STATE RULE ANYMORE."

The contiguous state rule was done away with in 1986, with the passage of the Firearm Owners Protection Act. Current federal law allows a non-resident to purchase a long gun from a licensed dealer in any state, as long as the purchase is legal in both the state where the purchase is made as well as the state of residence of the buyer.

 

[Chipperman]

Keep in mind that if the gun is a C&R gun, and you have a C&R license, then you can do it across state lines without a dealer.

 

[brighamr]

So how bout this? Say I buy a handgun in MT and I want to give it to my father in UT. Do I need to have an MT ffl ship it to a UT ffl? Or can I drive down and meet my dad at a UT ffl to do the transfer?

 

[Solo Flyer]

B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State?

A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]

brighamr that seems to be the answer.I think.

 

[MAKster]

brighamr - you can go to a gun store with your Dad in his state of residence and have them do the transfer on the spot.

 

[Solo Flyer]

brighamr - you can go to a gun store with your Dad in his state of residence and have them do the transfer on the spot.

Yes MAKster.That is exactly what ATF Rule B3(and Gator earlier)is saying.