Professional incompetence and ruined gun parts

[Col. Plink]

Wondering if others out there have had gun parts destroyed by the incompetence of someone entrusted to fix or decorate a firearm...

My story is about trying to get my twin nephews' pistol grip and rifle stock engraved with their names (this after getting nowhere trying to find a metal engraver that does firearms). I got an estimate; too high. Got another which was just over half the price, so I went with it. Got a call a WEEK later that the engraver would be unable to do the rifle stock ("It won't fit in our machine" was the ever-so-professional explanation:banghead.

They did a nice job on the pistol grip, and when I picked it up I asked for a recommendation on another shop for the stock: they had none . I left unimpressed with their professionalism to say the least. It worsened immediately. When I was leaving I saw a sign for a banner and sign shop that does engraving IN THEIR STRIP MALL TWO DOORS DOWN FROM THEM. Re-parked, walked in, got an estimate for the rifle stock and a promise to deliver in three days (I resisted the temptation to poke my head back in the first shop and tell them what braindead a$$es they are).

But the worst was yet to come. On my way to pick up the stock yesterday the engraver asks me how much they cost . Upon arrival I find he had routed it about 1/4" deep and ruined it in the process. This was supposed to be ready today for a trip to a friend's ranch for our annual shooting spree. The only thing that prevented my nephew from not having his rifle for this yearly rite was that I also have a Marlin 60 and switched out my stock; he doesn't have his gift yet but at least the incompetence of the engraver didn't ruin his trip (just the stock ).

Misery loves company, and not that I want to wallow in the misfortune of others, but I was wondering if folks had had similar experiences trying to have work or engraving done. Venting welcome. Thanks!

 

[Quick Karl]

The truth is that incompetence and fraud has become common place in America and Donald Trump Syndrome – a guy makes a part and/or provides a service and thinks he's entitled to higher than top pay and travel by limousine and the customer gets to pay for it based on fraud marketing strategies designed to mislead you into believing you have something that took voodoo and the voice of God to create – has become rampant…

And, the second you complain, answering machine syndrome goes into effect.

The fact is that because a handful of people do nice work and charge insanely ridiculously ego-moronic-based absurd prices that stupid fat American’s (yes, I am American born and raised) pay for, it leads to the erosion of what true Free Market Capitalism was intended to be, and every moron with a used lathe and an internet connection is suddenly “in business” producing inferior work but charging as if they are experienced and competent, leaving the common consumer holding the bill.

This is one of the primary reasons China is stomping the **** out of America. The common American consumer is left with a choice between getting ripped off or buying low quality Chinese junk, because Americans are too proud to work hard to produce good quality and service for an honest fair price.

 

[biggameballs]

Maybe that 1st quote that was "too high" is the one you should've taken! Most of the time you get what you pay for.

 

[Quick Karl]

Maybe that 1st quote that was "too high" is the one you should've taken! Most of the time you get what you pay for.

Respectfully, I disagree. Very RARELY do you get what you pay for anymore in America. More often than not you get crap for what used to be average price and pay a premium price for medicore service at best, or you can pay an absurd price and hope your gunsmith dosen't drop dead before he gets around to working on your rifle...

 

[berettaprofessor]

Perhaps the first shop WAS professional and knew that the 2nd shop would do an incompetent job at it

 

[Cosmoline]

I got an estimate; too high. Got another which was just over half the price, so I went with it.

There's your problem right there. Karl's point is generally valid, but not when it comes to something like engraving. It's a fine art, and few can do it well. You may expect to pay for that service if you want it done properly.

If you want to save some money and have it done in a MACHINE instead of by a master craftsman who actually knows what he's doing, you run the risk of having a mess made out of your parts.

 

[langenc]

""or you can pay an absurd price and hope your gunsmith dosen't drop dead before he gets around to working on your rifle... ""quoted from above

I have only sent one gun off for 'adjustment and it was back in 15 days-good job done.

The observation I have is: why does and gunshop accept your gun for a certain 'adjustment' and say it will be months till they can get to it?? How many dozen (hundred) guns do they have in racks waiting. I would suggest an appointment system but the answers here will be that a craftsman dont know how long a job will take!! I believe a real craftsman will have a pretty good idea.

The other bad part of sending in today for work to be preformed next fall is that you dont have the gun to shoot and the 'craftsman' has the liability of the dozens on his racks!!

 

[Col. Plink]

OK, let's not do violence to the facts or get on a political tangent...

At no time was I expecting or offered hand engraving (I know that's expensive; I'd pay for it if I wanted it). Also, I don't really consider wood routing to be engraving, especially when it's all done on computer-driven machines. So basically this guy set the machine wrong.

I don't think we're getting into any huge social trends or international economic indicators, just plain 'ol boneheadedness. In my opinion the first guy was guillty of something worse, namely not checking to see if he could do the stock before an entire week had gone by and BS'ing me about his ignorance of the engravers two doors down (which is especially galling because they were no competition to him, he couldn't do the job).

We're just talking about garden-variety laziness and lack of respect (neither can I abide).

 

[yeti]

...I asked for a recommendation on another shop for the stock: they had none.

...and BS'ing me about his ignorance of the engravers two doors down (which is especially galling because they were no competition to him, he couldn't do the job).

Would you recommend the second shop that ruined your stock? And if not why do you insist that he should have recommended it to you?

 

[Quick Karl]

As for me, I can no longer sit by in silence while the character that once made our society the standard by which all others were judged is squandered away by the lazy, self-interested, and irresponsible, and have decided to make my thoughts known about it at every opportunity, in the fleeting hope that others may decide to do the same.

 

[carbine85]

Respectfully, I disagree. Very RARELY do you get what you pay for anymore in America.

Gotta call you out on this one. Rarely do you get what you expect for the cheapest price. America still has the best all around services to offer. Try dealing with a Foreign service some time. We work a lot harder then most countries.
One thing we lack in this country is the ability to understand mistakes and the lack of patients.
As far as the shop that screwd up, see if they will order a new stock and give them a chance to make good on it.

 

[Cryogaijin]

Couldn't you get a plate/badge engraved and get that affixed to the firearm? I've seen that a couple times, and it even worked in one of 'em.

 

[.45FMJoe]

Perhaps the first shop WAS professional and knew that the 2nd shop would do an incompetent job at it

I think this is the best answer!

 

[suzukisam]

you know I see this every day. I do remodeling and contract type repair and painting. People call me all the time for estimates.. They look at me like I have three heads when I give them a price for custom finished cabinets, with the top of the line finish. then call me back about two or three months later and ask me if I can fix what some idiot with a pickup did. owning a truck is not a qualification to contract remodels. And aparently having a store front doesn't make you an engraver. If you wanted a top of the line job you should have paid for it. As far as Donald Trump goes he should really stop forcing people to buy his products... oh... wait ... maybe people buy it cause they want to...nah.. that's not it!:banghead:

Oh and just so you know when I do have to go back to someones house the price usually goes up because the idiot that didn't know what he was doing actually made more work for me.

 

[Quick Karl]

as far as Donald Trump goes he should really stop forcing people to buy his products... oh... wait ... maybe people buy it cause they want to...nah.. that's not it!

People buy stuff that is grossly overpriced because of hype and misleading marketing, and because they are stupid consumers, which ALLOWS less-than-honest parasites to prey on consumers in general.

Fine cabinet work is nice, and excellent quality wood aint cheap, but a cabinet job should NOT cost a new Dodge Ram pickup truck, which is why the consumer tried the less expensive alternative, so instead of doing the consumer right by trying to get by with a less expensive pick up, you cost the consumer three times more by refusing to yeild, leaving them to try the butcher, using that to justify an even higher price for the fix-up/repair.

You would do your community a FAR BETTER service by doing these types of projects more in line with what a consumer can afford (we're not talking about a creep driving a Benz complaining the price is to high), and foregoing the inflated profit margin, which would do more to eliminate the shoddy workmanship you complain about than would anything else.

Oh ya, forgot to mention, been in the custom homes business for over 30-years - seen every excuse there is, three times over. I know the mark-ups and profit margins for fact because I've run the numers a thousand times.

 

[Quick Karl]

OK I've said my piece and hope is resonates somewhere but this has gone off subject.

Thank you.

 

[CYANIDEGENOCIDE]

Are you really trying to tell someone to lower their prices?!? based on what Karl? People can charge what they want, and consumers do not have to buy anything. If someone wants cabinents what is to stop them from ordering from IKEA? You want more, you pay more.

You would do your community a FAR BETTER service by doing these types of projects more in line with what a consumer can afford

community as in communism, what about the poor people living in section 8 housing, they want custom cabinents too. But they can only afford $17 so according to you the job should be done for a loss. You want the best you pay for the best. Go tell Holland and Holland they shouldn't ever sell a gun for more than $299 because that is what hi-point charges

 

[twofifty]

Idiots prolly thought they were working on a "Home Sweet Home" plaque.

 

[HKGuns]

I don't get what you are all cheezed off about. The first shop did a fine job, didn't do the job they couldn't do and I assume didn't charge you for it. I'd be more than willing to bet they knew there was an engraving shop two doors down and didn't recommend them because they didn't know they would do a good job for you. I don't make recommendations lightly and a business has to be even more careful.

The second shop made a mistake, but it sounds like they are going to buy you a new stock. I'm sure the engraving shop didn't intentionally ruin your stock.

 

[suzukisam]

Karl this is the only post I will make directed at you. I understand your frustration. I laugh when I see what people want for trucks, cars, houses, ect.. these days inflation of every nature is killing the economy. I never said I rip people off. However I'm not taking on liability and insurance and taxes and all the things that go along with just trying to make a buck these days, so everyone else can have what they want while I go home to my little house in a medium neighborhood and pinch pennies. I'm in it to make money and there is no shortage of idiots who don't have my skills that will do any job at about any price. I'm not a socialist. I'm a capitalist, Therefore I charge what the market will pay.. and the snobs in the mercedes are happy to have my caliber of work. and guess what, when work is slow prices go down.. this is capitalism. and if the OP didn't want to have his stock messed up he could have paid top dollar. because they are probably paying top dollar for help that has experience. and that shop would not be open charging those prices if customers weren't willing to pay that price for that quality. there is a difference in ripping people off and being the best in your field. and just remember the op had a choice to pay his first estimate and he passed. if all this heartache is of more value to him than paying double then he is happy, but at this point I bet he would just about rather have had a top notch job and paid a little extra. but hey I might be wrong

 

[WNTFW]

Col. Plink,
First off I am an engraver, so when you get back from your trip, PM me & we can see what you need. Maybe I can make things right even though I wasn't involved. I'd like to see some pics of the good, the bad & the ugly.
I see some fairly bad engraving and related products. We do take pride in our work. Often this requires more expense to be better. I have learned over the years not to concern myself with other shops. Honestly if I were to bad mouth another shop the customer would not believe me. The shop probably couldn't recommend them in good conscience and chose not mention them either. Some one is always there to beat the price. The guy should have figured out & let you know sooner that he could not have done the stock. In his defense he may have wholeheartedly done his best & could have been very busy.
One thing I can say is that engraving an item brought in by a customer has some stress involved. Some AR lowers for example are very consistent in the way the anodizing reacts. Some lowers will vary even with consecutive serial numbers.
Even items that are cheap present problems that require time to be dealt with. Variances can cause problems. Some items take longer to unpack & repack that they do to run.
Then you get items like a guns stock that will work fine until you get an older or newer version and the finish is different . . .
I take the attitude that I need to explain the risk, limitations, lead time, cost and etc. up front. Many customer do not realize what is involved and that is fine. Only an engraver would be expected to know.

 

[WNTFW]

Suzukisam,
I bet you have competitors that can charge less that you, start right away and be finished sooner. At least that is what the tell the customer. Then later the story changes.

 

[BrocLuno]

I'd be checking in the back of Rifle magazine. Lots of stock carvers in there and one would have known a good engraver. This stuff needs to be from a word of mouth reliable resource.

 

[suzukisam]

Yes they are cheaper faster and all finishes are the same! the good stuff is the same as the cheap stuff just a different label!:banghead: you know people who want cheap work don't offend me. I understand that everyone has different check books. I just refuse to apologize that I took the time to learn a craft and target the people who want quality and are willing to pay for it! GOD BLESS AMERICA! CAPITALISM TOO!

wntfw- one of these days i gotta find a good engraver. I have to get one of my rugers all done up! I've always wanted a good old single action six shooter, engraved

 

[gamestalker]

I was up grading a spring in my M 66-5 S&W and accidentally let the timing hand spring come free. I live in a city of 1 million, so I called a gun shop who boasted they have an excellent gun smith, " one of the best in town". The gun smith assured me on the phone he was completely familiar with the timing hand spring installation. I explained to him the only reason I couldn't do it myself was because it requires a speciality tool, called a spring block. He rather balked at that statement and said who told you that? I said I had looked it up on Midway. He said with kind of an attitude, no it doesn't, it just needs to put back in the trigger, it's really easy. Bring it in. When I arrived to the gun smith, and showed him the task his response made me nervous. He looked at the spring and said he had never seen one like that before, and continued by stating that he was certain I had the wrong spring. He worked on it for about 20 minutes and then came out of his wrok area to tell me something was either wrong with the spring, or it was the wrong one. I wouldn't have been upset except that when I got out to my car and took it out of the gun case I noticed he had scratched the crap out of my nice looking well kept revolver. I then drove across town to another shop with a long history and asked the gun smith if he was familiar with S&W revolvers and he said absolutely. I handed him the revolver and he took it in back for about 5 minutes came back out and handed it to me properely fixed, no charge.
About a week later I got a call from the gun smith who couldn't install the spring and scratched my gun. I was really surprised to be gettign a phone call from him, being that there was absolutely no reason. So I asked him what I could do for him. He was very friendly and said your gun is all ready and you can come pick it up today if you want. I said what gun? I never left you my gun. He said your 1911 you dropped of to have compensated and a different barrel put on, and this, and that custom work. I don't know much about 1911s, but it was a lot of work he had apparently done to it. I told him it wasn't my gun and that I've never owned a 1911. He kind of chuckled and said, no really it's ready. I again stated that I haven ever owned a 1911 and that he had made a mistake. He then got rather upset and said, you need to come get it, it is done! I reiterated with a tone that it was not my gun and I didn't have any idea what he was talking about, and hung up. A few minutes later the owner called me and said I needed to pick up the gun. I told him the same thing, it's not my gun, I don't own a 1911, and please don't call me again. He then said, what's the problem? You already paid for the work and the gun, and now your not going to come and pick it up? At his point I was quite upset and said, listen to what I am saying, you have made some kind of a mistake with your records, I have never owned a 1911. He then asked me if I was so and so, and I said yes, but that is not my gun and you've some how mixed up your records. He was pissed and hung up the phone. It wasn't over yet. A week later I got another call from him asking me if I was going to pick it up, or not. I couldn't believe it, and simply told him to not ever call me again, and explained to him I had only brought one gun in to his shop ever, and it was a revolver that his gun smith couldn't fix. We parted ways on the phone. A few days later I got yet another call and was now about ready to get a restraining order to stop the phone calls, and told him exactly that. Two weeks later I got yet another phone call thanking me for not picking the gun up, because the owner had come in to check on the progress. He appologized and explained, that I could have easily inherited a very expensive 1911 gold cup. Don't know what that is exactly but it must be pretty special. Before I hung up I wanted to know how he got my name on this gun order, and he still had no idea what happened to cause such a serious mistake on someting that had already been paid for.