Lee gets bought by more folks for the same reason they buy Maverick shotguns and similarly priced goods - they are cheap, not necessarily the best (or the worst)
"Progressive" Loading?
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The only progressive press I've got so far is a Lee Pro 1000, which I got used, cheap, and set up for .45ACP, with the Auto Disk powder measure and the Large Case Feeder tubes and case collator. It took some tinkering with setting up and adjusting everything to start out, including watching a lot of videos on the Internet to see how things are supposed to work - the written instruction sheet is not nearly as detailed or helpful as it could be. Once everything was set right, though, it cranks out rounds as fast as I can seat the bullets on the cases. For reloading pistol cartridges, I'm satisfied enough to have ordered another couple of shell plate assemblies for the other calibres I shoot a lot of - 9mm, .40S&W, and .380. I paid $150 for it used, and for the price, I consider it a very good value.
Cfullgraf, you must be very fast with your hand primer. I can load a tube in under 90seconds. The secret is the brand of primers you use. I use Winchester due to the package. You can do without a flip tray by using an empty and filpping them in. Then lay it on the table, pull the sleeve and presto all set up for the tube. I have loaded in excess of 500,000 rounds on my 550B over about 20 years without a breakdown. I even had a 650 offered to me at a ridiculous price and turned it down due to setup costs. I load 10 different calibers and have complete setups for each including powder dispensers.
I held an FFL for ammo manufacturing for 8 years and sold lots of ammo all loaded on the the 550B. Never a complaint. It is reliable and consistent provided you do your part. It will also load my rifle calibers without a hitch. What more could you want?
I held an FFL for ammo manufacturing for 8 years and sold lots of ammo all loaded on the the 550B. Never a complaint. It is reliable and consistent provided you do your part. It will also load my rifle calibers without a hitch. What more could you want?
I, too, am pondering a press purchase and based upon my observations Spammy's post is dead on. You can also see presses compared and in action yourself with concise videos offered by Gavintoobe's youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/gavintoobe?feature=watch.
I'm leaning towards the RCBS Pro 2000 autoindex with its space saving lovely form factor and simple priming system.
I'm leaning towards the RCBS Pro 2000 autoindex with its space saving lovely form factor and simple priming system.
hAkron
Member
I started reloading about 3 years ago. My first press was an RCBS rock chucker that I purchased in a kit (the supreme master kit or some such). I don't have any friends who reload, so I started off on my own without any guidance other than the internet and reloading manuals. I load only pistol (well shotgun too, but that's another discussion), no rifle. I reload for about 11 different calibers. The rock chucker was great, but I wanted to increase my speed. I went to the place where I buy my stuff and I picked up a Lyman T-Mag 2 Turret Press. I liked the press, but it didn't speed me up much. I used that turret press for another month and then we moved into our new place. I used some spare cash I had to purchase a Hornady LnL AP. I really did like it at first. Along the way I upgraded it with a case feeder, a bullet feeder, I bought a wheelbarrow full of LnL bushings, Quick Change powder dies, quick change powder meters, a universal powder funnel from www.powderfunnels.com, a roller handle and strongmount from inline fabrication...I loaded a lot of great rounds out of that press, but at the end of the day, for about the same money (well, close at least) I probably could have just gotten a Dillon 650...Which I did about a month ago...I do like it better than the Hornady. This is NOT a Hornday bashing post, just my observations as somebody who owns both.
Some things I didn't like about the Hornady --
The priming shuttle system is flaky and prone to failure. If you get any powder on the shuttle slide you are going to have to break it down and clean it. You WILL get powder on the shuttle slide.
The shell plate bolt is difficult to properly tighten. You have to kind of hold the shell plate with one hand and turn the bolt with the the other hand. I would be nice if it were held in with a set screw like it is on the Dillon. The bolt will also work it's way loose after a few hundred rounds and will need to be checked from time to time.
The case feeder is complicated to set up correctly and requires a lot of adjustment to get it just right. You pretty much have to undo much of that adjustment when changing from one caliber to another. The top part of the case feeder is made very cheaply. My was very far off center (crooked) and I had to tape a piece of cardboard to it to keep it from spitting brass at me. It jams a lot, and the motor seems under powerd for the job. If you put more than a couple of handfulls of brass in, it just wont turn. The Dillon case feeder is less money, and much better crafted, and more powerful, and easier to switch calibers.
The bullet feeder I didn't like so much. The bullet dies were hard for me to adjust, I would get them working and then they would stop feeding bullets, but the worst part was the bullet 'tube' which is a wire loom sort of coil tube was a bit short, and doesn't go deep enough into the bullet die. If I didn't keep pushing it back down into the die, it would pop out and empty itself all over the floor, so there was a lot of 'trying to catch a waterfall of bullets in t-shirt' moments, and I just gave up on the bullet feeder. I might try the RCBS feeder on my Dillon one of these days.
They give you a fiberglass rod that you stick in the primer tube to see how full or empty it is was a pain as well, If you put it back in when you replenished your primers it would often get itself jammed up in the case feeder
The LnL bushings make changing out dies very quick, but can make die storage tricky. The dies won't fit back into most brands of die boxes. I fixed this by just getting a large Plano plastic parts box for each caliber. I could keep the dies, powder die, shell plate, etc all together for a LOT cheaper than a Dillon tool head stand.
The Hornady LnL AP is a decent press, but Hornady has chosen to cut cost in a lot of key areas that make some of the parts prone to early wear. Hornady is GREAT about sending you replacement parts though. I can't say enough good about their customer service. They are very prompt to take care of any situations that arise.
Caliber changes on the Hornady a less expensive than the Dillon, and most gun stores sell Hornady stuff. It is much more rare (in these parts anyway) to find a stocking Dillon Dealer. Even MidwayUsa, Sinclair, and many of the other popular online ordering places don't carry Dillon.
If I knew then what I know now, I would probably have just bought the Dillon 650XL in the first place.
Some things I didn't like about the Hornady --
The priming shuttle system is flaky and prone to failure. If you get any powder on the shuttle slide you are going to have to break it down and clean it. You WILL get powder on the shuttle slide.
The shell plate bolt is difficult to properly tighten. You have to kind of hold the shell plate with one hand and turn the bolt with the the other hand. I would be nice if it were held in with a set screw like it is on the Dillon. The bolt will also work it's way loose after a few hundred rounds and will need to be checked from time to time.
The case feeder is complicated to set up correctly and requires a lot of adjustment to get it just right. You pretty much have to undo much of that adjustment when changing from one caliber to another. The top part of the case feeder is made very cheaply. My was very far off center (crooked) and I had to tape a piece of cardboard to it to keep it from spitting brass at me. It jams a lot, and the motor seems under powerd for the job. If you put more than a couple of handfulls of brass in, it just wont turn. The Dillon case feeder is less money, and much better crafted, and more powerful, and easier to switch calibers.
The bullet feeder I didn't like so much. The bullet dies were hard for me to adjust, I would get them working and then they would stop feeding bullets, but the worst part was the bullet 'tube' which is a wire loom sort of coil tube was a bit short, and doesn't go deep enough into the bullet die. If I didn't keep pushing it back down into the die, it would pop out and empty itself all over the floor, so there was a lot of 'trying to catch a waterfall of bullets in t-shirt' moments, and I just gave up on the bullet feeder. I might try the RCBS feeder on my Dillon one of these days.
They give you a fiberglass rod that you stick in the primer tube to see how full or empty it is was a pain as well, If you put it back in when you replenished your primers it would often get itself jammed up in the case feeder
The LnL bushings make changing out dies very quick, but can make die storage tricky. The dies won't fit back into most brands of die boxes. I fixed this by just getting a large Plano plastic parts box for each caliber. I could keep the dies, powder die, shell plate, etc all together for a LOT cheaper than a Dillon tool head stand.
The Hornady LnL AP is a decent press, but Hornady has chosen to cut cost in a lot of key areas that make some of the parts prone to early wear. Hornady is GREAT about sending you replacement parts though. I can't say enough good about their customer service. They are very prompt to take care of any situations that arise.
Caliber changes on the Hornady a less expensive than the Dillon, and most gun stores sell Hornady stuff. It is much more rare (in these parts anyway) to find a stocking Dillon Dealer. Even MidwayUsa, Sinclair, and many of the other popular online ordering places don't carry Dillon.
If I knew then what I know now, I would probably have just bought the Dillon 650XL in the first place.
rodinal220
Member
So many cost comparisons are not apples-to-apples comparisons. I have made a quick table to help with comparing the three most discussed presses (Hornady LNL AP, Dillon 550b and XL 650).
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0An2euwWpgtk6dHRwZUZmRWtoQktXQ2tWTXpoUkNRVHc#gid=0
Please note, these are setups with a case feeder and all the costs that come along with that.
Edit: These exclude shipping costs. This could be a pro or con depending on press and retail preference. Brian Enos offers free shipping over $400 on all Dillon, while Midway charges actual freight for their products.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0An2euwWpgtk6dHRwZUZmRWtoQktXQ2tWTXpoUkNRVHc#gid=0
Please note, these are setups with a case feeder and all the costs that come along with that.
Edit: These exclude shipping costs. This could be a pro or con depending on press and retail preference. Brian Enos offers free shipping over $400 on all Dillon, while Midway charges actual freight for their products.
Dillon without a doubt!
BUT, nothing is foolproof, you MUST pay attention and concentrate on the task at hand and THAT is reloading.
BUT, nothing is foolproof, you MUST pay attention and concentrate on the task at hand and THAT is reloading.
I'm no nubie to reloading operations...started in '62...have owned 8 presses over the years...that said...
Lee's Loadmaster was a royal PITA from day one. I lost count of the number of primer feed problems I had with mine...plastic parts....Lee makes many good products, dies, trimmers, primer auto manual seaters etc...that Loadmaster, was not good. I can't remember a single operation where I got an entire 50 round box of ammo loaded without a problem or adjustment.
For superb results, with customer service that is the standard in the loading press business, get a Dillon 550B. I have two of them, one each set up for large and small primer sizes. Caliber changes take less than 10 minutes. Current prices give you the press, a powder measure that works well, and dies for less than $450. A call to Dillon will get you instantaneous service..parts...or "how do I adjust this part of the operation. They are first rate.
Production is good...I shoot a lot of pistol, but not competitively. I can load 200 rounds an hour, with complete safety and get loads that will be as accurate as I'm able to shoot. More than that, say if you're loading for a club, or you're into one of the high round count competitive disciplines, would require a 650.
Get a Dillon, you'll never have to upgrade. Best Regards, Rod
Lee's Loadmaster was a royal PITA from day one. I lost count of the number of primer feed problems I had with mine...plastic parts....Lee makes many good products, dies, trimmers, primer auto manual seaters etc...that Loadmaster, was not good. I can't remember a single operation where I got an entire 50 round box of ammo loaded without a problem or adjustment.
For superb results, with customer service that is the standard in the loading press business, get a Dillon 550B. I have two of them, one each set up for large and small primer sizes. Caliber changes take less than 10 minutes. Current prices give you the press, a powder measure that works well, and dies for less than $450. A call to Dillon will get you instantaneous service..parts...or "how do I adjust this part of the operation. They are first rate.
Production is good...I shoot a lot of pistol, but not competitively. I can load 200 rounds an hour, with complete safety and get loads that will be as accurate as I'm able to shoot. More than that, say if you're loading for a club, or you're into one of the high round count competitive disciplines, would require a 650.
Get a Dillon, you'll never have to upgrade. Best Regards, Rod
Exactly right question to ask (regarding speed).
This thread started out with an Auto-indexing turret press as the subject, but the method applies to progressives just as well.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=702338
Lost Sheep
I agree with Rodfac----get Dillon. A 550B can be used as a single stage just as easily as progressive so in my book it's more versatile.
1KPerDay
Member
Cool info, Lost Sheep. thanks. 
I can actually load 5 rounds a minute (300 rph) on the LCT, but not without stopping every couple hundred to refill primers, check OAL, etc. So I average about 200 or so. And I check the powder level visually every time.
If the Dillon 550 gives you 200 rph after figuring in all the fiddling... maybe I'll stick with the LCT. But if others are saying they can load 300 in 15 minutes...
I'm still interested.
I can actually load 5 rounds a minute (300 rph) on the LCT, but not without stopping every couple hundred to refill primers, check OAL, etc. So I average about 200 or so. And I check the powder level visually every time.
If the Dillon 550 gives you 200 rph after figuring in all the fiddling... maybe I'll stick with the LCT. But if others are saying they can load 300 in 15 minutes...
I'm still interested.
1KPerDay,
When I bought my Hornady L-N-L, I was mostly thinking that I would be reloading from fired case to finished round. For a variety of reasons, that did not suit my style but I have found the progressive press is very flexible and it reduces the number of times I need to pull on the handle.
Particularly with handgun cartridges where resizing is two steps, I put the resizer die and the mouth expander die in the press and stroke away. The auto indexer moves the cases around and spits them out into a tray so the only handling is putting the case into the shell plate. It could go even faster with a case feeder but i do not like the noise they generate and I do not need the production volume.
I prefer to clean cases between resizing and reloading.
For loading the case, I let the progressive charge the case, seat the bullet and crimp the case. I prefer to crimp in a separate operation from seating so again, the progressive minimizes the case handling.
With the individual die bushings, the Hornady suits this process well. I just install the dies I need for the task at hand. But a Dillon could be adapted just as easily.
So, when you take the progressive plunge, think outside the box. Loading from fired case to finished round may suit your needs, but if not, the progressive can still be a labor saving device that produces more ammunition than what you are doing now.
Hope this helps.
When I bought my Hornady L-N-L, I was mostly thinking that I would be reloading from fired case to finished round. For a variety of reasons, that did not suit my style but I have found the progressive press is very flexible and it reduces the number of times I need to pull on the handle.
Particularly with handgun cartridges where resizing is two steps, I put the resizer die and the mouth expander die in the press and stroke away. The auto indexer moves the cases around and spits them out into a tray so the only handling is putting the case into the shell plate. It could go even faster with a case feeder but i do not like the noise they generate and I do not need the production volume.
I prefer to clean cases between resizing and reloading.
For loading the case, I let the progressive charge the case, seat the bullet and crimp the case. I prefer to crimp in a separate operation from seating so again, the progressive minimizes the case handling.
With the individual die bushings, the Hornady suits this process well. I just install the dies I need for the task at hand. But a Dillon could be adapted just as easily.
So, when you take the progressive plunge, think outside the box. Loading from fired case to finished round may suit your needs, but if not, the progressive can still be a labor saving device that produces more ammunition than what you are doing now.
Hope this helps.
RCBS Pro2000
I'll plug the RCBS. I've loaded close to 80,000 rounds since 2009. Mostly pistol, but a fair amount of .223, 308 and '06.
Caliber changes take only a minute, and the UniFlow powder measure is as good as you can get with a progressive. If kept clean, the APS primer works well.
I have replaced all the springs twice with no questions asked from RCBS, and it is working as good as new. I am hoping to break 100k this year.
If you are going to add a bullet feeder or any other expensive add-on later, the Dillon is probably a better bet. I can safely load 3-400 p/h and that is good enough for me.
I'll plug the RCBS. I've loaded close to 80,000 rounds since 2009. Mostly pistol, but a fair amount of .223, 308 and '06.
Caliber changes take only a minute, and the UniFlow powder measure is as good as you can get with a progressive. If kept clean, the APS primer works well.
I have replaced all the springs twice with no questions asked from RCBS, and it is working as good as new. I am hoping to break 100k this year.
If you are going to add a bullet feeder or any other expensive add-on later, the Dillon is probably a better bet. I can safely load 3-400 p/h and that is good enough for me.
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