Progressive presses question

[stretch0069]

Good day to all. New join here, but I've perused these pages for quite a few years.

I have a question about a couple progressive presses I’m looking at. I used to reload on a Lee Loadmaster. When it worked, it worked great. But I loaded a LOT of ammo on it and plastic wears out. Its been over 10 years since I was reloading and….well…I just don’t want to mess with things anymore. My time has become valuable so when I DO reload, I don’t want to waste it fiddling around. I loved the quick changeover of calibers on the Lee.

On the progressive, I will be reloading the following:
454 Casull
44 Mag
41 Mag

I also reload 50AE, 22-250, 30-30, 308, and 30-06, but I don’t do those on a progressive mainly due to having to lube the cases.

I also run separate crimp dies.

I went to a local shop here and was able to see the XL650 and the LnL AP. Both looked good and seemed smooth. I haven’t been able to check out the PRO2000.

I like quick change overs and a minimum of fuss. I have read all the blue/red/red/green bashing and butt-kissing I can stand. I am only interested in the three mentioned below (to avoid the inevitable “why not a 550?” ). My question is….for those who own each….have I left out any parts I’ll need? I want to avoid the “oh…you should have gotten the extra blahblah” after I've made my purchase. I’m going to purchase and that will be the end of it as far as extras go.


Dillon XL650:
Press (44Mag) (shellplate, toolhead, powder measure)
Case feed
Strong Mount
Bullet tray
Alum. Roller Handle
Machine cover
41 Mag Conversion (shellplate, stand, toolhead, powder measure)
454 Conversion (shellplate, stand, toolhead, powder measure)
650 Priming Quick-Change, Small
Extra primer tubes (2 sm and 2 lrg)
Spare parts kit

This specs out to about $1500


Hornady Lock-n-Load AP:
Press
Case feed
44 Mag shellplate
41 Mag shellplate
454 shellplate
20 LnL bushings
Extra primer pickup tubes (3 sm and 3 lrg)
Dust cover

This looks to be about $1000


RCBS Pro2000:
Press
44 Mag shellplate
41 Mag shellplate
454 shellplate
3 toolheads
APS strips (8 sm and 8 lrg)
APS Primer strip loader

All of this can be had for $775


Now…to keep things in perspective…..I’ve heard tell that Lee made some mods to the Loadmaster in the last few years to address some issues. Namely the primer feed and the shellplates. Can anyone confirm or deny this and if confirmed, did the “improvements” help? I really have no problem throwing down $200 for upgrades to the Loadmaster if it solves some previous issues. Besides…I already have most of the bits.

As an aside…..I know the LM isn’t a true 5 station, but I know the Powder Though Expanding die and it worked great for me….as does the Pro Disk measure. Not sure of the other three or if they even have a PTE die.

Another beef with the loadmaster right now is the plastic flipper used to advance the shellplate. This single part is what has me looking at the other three. But I’m sure a mod could be made here as well.

Sorry for the long post, but it’s what I’m looking at. Hopefully, the extensive knowledge base here will help me out with required items for the above presses.

So…..as it stands:
Dillon $1500
Hornady $1000
RCBS $770
Lee……..well…….??????


CHEERS!

 

[ClarkEMyers]

If you like the Strong Mount for the Dillon I'd suggest looking closely at the mounts and trays for the other presses. I'd certainly add one of the LED light strips. Inline Mfg or Midway or..... I'd buy more APS strips - which I have both loose and with thousands of CCI primers as shipped in APS strips. The strips are reusable but not forever. The LNL needs additional powder through inserts either cartridge specific from Hornady - different expanders for .45 ACP and .45 Long Colt and sometimes different for cast and jacketed bullets - OR aftermarket more universal powder through and flare but not expand insert. There are mixed reviews but some like the vibrating primer tube filler if not as good as the Dillon much better than pushing down on a flexing primer flipper. I have one.

Given a press and case feeder there's a very strong case for running rifle cases - either just go ahead and spray lube - or as I often do run the case feeder to resize only as an operation of its own, folks can use a case lube die and full length sizing die or something like a Redding bushing neck sizer with their ti bushing. Any operation that can be done case feeding should be.

 

[cfullgraf]

Get the press whose color best matches the decor in your reloading room. It will serve you well.

They all have their advantages and disadvantages for each press that fit or do not fit with each user.

Check out this thread.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=741544

Do a search of the forum and you will find other threads on the subject.

And, check out exactly what each press kit comes with so you do not double buy something. The Pro2000 comes with the APS strip loader.

Hope this helps.

 

[Blue68f100]

LNL-AP,

You will need the Large pistol plate for the brass feeder. With 5 stations you can use the std die for expanding the case mouth or you can go the PTX. The PTX combines expanding and powder dump in 1 station. For quicker change over with the PTX buy powder die bases. This way you will not need to adj anything on change over. If you want a quicker changer over you may want to buy the micrometer head for the powder dispenser or std pistons and pre set them. For a dust cover I use a tall kitchen trash bag.

 

[Lost Sheep]

Sorry to break your rule-but this is short

I understand Lee will rebuild to brand-new specification any press returned to them for on-half the price of a new one.

Good luck on your new press.

Thanks for reading

Lost Sheep

 

[plodder]

I wouldn't be a good one to ask for an unbiased recommendation. I drank the blue Koolaide a few years ago and have .45ACP, .223 and 30-06 caliber conversion kits for my Dillon 650. Also picked up the .223 case length trimmer. Makes fast work of reloading a few hundred in an evening.

Very satisfied.

 

[John3921]

This is my list for a caliber change on the LNL

pistol meter: Part no. 50116 (allows you to have one setup and ready to go)
shell plate
Quick change bushings
Quick change powder die: Part no. 50074
PTX: Caliber specific. Eliminates the need for an expander die.
Dies
taper crimp die (I prefer to keep taper crimping separate from seating)
Powder through expander linkage: 290049 - better repeatability of the PTX case mouth belling.

 

[higgite]

Just in case you don't know, the Pro 2000 comes with 3 items on your list of extras: the APS strip loader, a boatload of SP and LP strips and one die plate (tool head).

 

[BYJO4]

To change calibers on the LNL AP without any adjustment (after initial setting) you will need 2 more Quick Change Powder Dies (about $20 each) and 2 more Pistol Powder Metering Inserts (about $10 each). Since you can seat and roll crimp the calibers you show in one step, you wont need a powder thru expander as you can use your normal expander die. No matter what press you decide to buy, I strongly suggest you buy and use the RCBS Lockout Die as an added safetey precaution (one for each caliber if you don't want to readjust each time you change calibers). Since I don't use a case feeder, I don't know if anything else is needed for it when changing calibers. Good luck in making your decision.

 

[stretch0069]

This is the info I'm looking for.

If you like the Strong Mount for the Dillon I'd suggest looking closely at the mounts and trays for the other presses. I'd certainly add one of the LED light strips. Inline Mfg or Midway or.....

I'd buy more APS strips - which I have both loose and with thousands of CCI primers as shipped in APS strips. The strips are reusable but not forever.

The LNL needs additional powder through inserts either cartridge specific from Hornady - different expanders for .45 ACP and .45 Long Colt and sometimes different for cast and jacketed bullets - OR aftermarket more universal powder through and flare but not expand insert.

There are mixed reviews but some like the vibrating primer tube filler if not as good as the Dillon much better than pushing down on a flexing primer flipper. I have one.

Ok......multiplying the APS strips by.....10?

I'll look into strong mounts for the others. Never even thought of it.

I may do expanding in a separate step.....I'll have to rethink this part.

Ok.....vibrating tube filler for Dillon. I accept that.

As for rifle.....maybe. I'll have to ponder this as well.

Get the press whose color best matches the decor in your reloading room. It will serve you well.

I've seen that comment quite a lot. But nothing goes with Toupe.

LNL-AP,

You will need the Large pistol plate for the brass feeder. With 5 stations you can use the std die for expanding the case mouth or you can go the PTX. The PTX combines expanding and powder dump in 1 station. For quicker change over with the PTX buy powder die bases. This way you will not need to adj anything on change over. If you want a quicker changer over you may want to buy the micrometer head for the powder dispenser or std pistons and pre set them. For a dust cover I use a tall kitchen trash bag.

I believe the case feeder comes with a large pistol plate. Did I read wrong? Yeah....I could use a trash bag, but whats another $75?

I understand Lee will rebuild to brand-new specification any press returned to them for on-half the price of a new one.

I'm thinking about making a call to Lee this week just to see what they have to say. I've loaded a lot of ammo on that thing.


John3921 and BYJO4....got the info. I guess I really need to think about that powder/expanding thing a bit more. Shouldn't make much difference in price. Maybe an extra $100???

Just in case you don't know, the Pro 2000 comes with 3 items on your list of extras: the APS strip loader, a boatload of SP and LP strips and one die plate (tool head).

Another example of why I posted. I either misread or didn't see that the Pro 2000 comes with the primer loader. I'll have to look more closely at how many strips come with it. To me, putting primers in an APS strip is the same as punching them with a pickup tube.



Thank you for the responses. Excellent info for me to continue chewing on. The gubermint is giving me a nice check this year and I'm thinking about a new press and a new semi-auto .308 of some kind. Oops....might have to forgo the rifle....the car needs tires.....$250 a tire ain't cheap!

 

[sexybeast]

I use a Loadmaster too and have loaded well over 100 thousand rounds on it. I hand prime though! If Lee gives you any information on their upgrades or replacement parts [that work] post it and let us know.
If, and I say If,,Lee had made this press with a reliable priming system priced where it is now at less than $250. It would be the best selling press on the market. The priming system on mine sucked! I could never get it to work more than 100rds before a major failure. But the turrets and shell plates are cheaper than any other progressive. So conversions are $35. It has a lot going for it except the mentioned priming system. In my opinion its simply Lee's policy of making things pretty good, just not good enough.

 

[stu1ritter]

Like you, I value my time highly. I now have a pair of LnL's, one small primer, one large primer, which also means one small case feeder setup and one large case feeder setup. The hardest part of the caliber change over on the LnL, as far as I'm concerned, is changing out the primer punch. I am a retired Mercedes-Benz mechanic and I'm quite used to starting threaded fasteners standing on my head, but getting the primer punch started on the LnL is a bit of a pain. Straight caliber change-over, with the same size primer is a snap, Takes a few minutes if the seater/crimper is already adjusted for your bullet, a little longer if not. If you have to change primer punch and case feeder size you can add another 10-15 minutes and a wee bit of frustration from my experience.
Stu

 

[GoldieMI]

one place to check for the mounts as well as the LED lighting, among their other offerings is inline fabrications (www.inlinefabrication.com)

They offer their ultra mounts and roller handles for other setups such as the LNL, RCBS, and LEE presses.

 

[Walkalong]

I also reload 50AE, 22-250, 30-30, 308, and 30-06, but I don’t do those on a progressive mainly due to having to lube the cases.

I run all my rifle cases through the press while sizing only. Then I tumble, prep, tumble, prime, and then run it through again to load them. Something to consider.

 

[Blue68f100]

stretch0069, When I added the brass feeder to mine (5ys ago) it did not come with any plates.

stu1ritter, I do not have any problems changing the primer seater. I run the ram all the way up and change it. I find that I need to be touching the ram with my finger to be back far enough though.

 

[GW Staar]

I recommend the Hornady bullet feeder ($268) from Graf & Sons to go with the Pro 2000. Simple effective tool....doesn't affect caliber change time hardly at all. RCBS feeder is lots more money and more complicated as well.

So to be apples to apples with the other presses (adding a feeder) and removing the 3 items that already comes with the Pro 2000, you'd be adding $260 for the feeder, and subtracting $32 & $24 for the APS Strips and Loader......that equals $904. That choice lgives you the fastest caliber changes, and safest primer system. If you buy pre-stripped CCI primers then you also have the fastest, safest primer system.

 

[RealGun]

Like you, I value my time highly. I now have a pair of LnL's, one small primer, one large primer, which also means one small case feeder setup and one large case feeder setup. The hardest part of the caliber change over on the LnL, as far as I'm concerned, is changing out the primer punch. I am a retired Mercedes-Benz mechanic and I'm quite used to starting threaded fasteners standing on my head, but getting the primer punch started on the LnL is a bit of a pain. Straight caliber change-over, with the same size primer is a snap, Takes a few minutes if the seater/crimper is already adjusted for your bullet, a little longer if not. If you have to change primer punch and case feeder size you can add another 10-15 minutes and a wee bit of frustration from my experience.
Stu

I have been finding it much easier to thread that primer punch by placing it in a 1/4 drive socket, which is small and easier to manipulate with my fingers. It also provides a better sense of approaching square to the hole and threads.

 

[John3921]

For some reason getting that primer seater started is a bugger. I'm very tempted to take a chamfer tool to the sub-plate and put a very small chamfer, 0.010" or 0.020", on the threaded hole. It might make it a bit easier to locate and start the seater.

 

[dickttx]

Glad to see it is not just me being old and fumble fingered that causes me so much trouble changing the LnL primer seater.
RealGun, I thought you had solved all my problems with this when you originally posted about the socket, but alas, no. Still a problem.
I just build into my change overs the time to drop it and find it a couple of times. Still a very quick change over.

 

[germ]

I have both a loadmaster and an LNL. I wouldn't give 2cents for another loadmaster - and I got mine for free.

I was going to point out the case feeder does not come with plates, but somebody beat me to it. I was going to point out that a roller handle is a sweet addition, but somebody beat me to it. Then I was going to point out that LED lighting is real plus I'd sure hate to do without now, but somebody beat me to it. I've also been beaten to the micro-adjuster for the powder measure and/or a few extras of the type you preset and forget.

Oh here's one, the primer tube feeder thingie (Vibraprime) from Frankford Arsenal is real handy to have. Sure beats the heck out of hen-pecking all those primers. If you also have a single stage, you may be able to fit up one of those bushings that allow you to mount your LNL bushed dies. I have one in my rockchucker. Don't think anyone mentioned this yet, I like the Hornady seater dies with the micro-adjuster. Ahh, here's a goodie, don't forget to get extra case holder springs (for around the shell plate). For that matter, I also have extra springs for the primer feeder shuttle and the powder measure. Who hasn't had the experience of dropping some little part that inevitably rolls under...something...and disappears for all eternity?

I've never touched a Dillon, but I'd sure like to test drive one sometime. From what I've read the case feeder is a lot less finicky to set up than the LNL's. Have no fear though, a little duct tape, cardboard and krazy glue and you'll be sailing along in no time.

I did recently get an RCBS APS hand primer tool which makes me think I'd really like that priming system on the Pro2000. Seriously. Priming issues are at the top of everyone's hate list regarding progressives. I suspect RCBS nailed it, but I've never used a Pro2000 either.

 

[stretch0069]

Apologies for the late reply....stupid work keeps intruding on my fun.

Haven't been able to call Lee yet. Teaching a class right now so getting off work in time to call them before they close is tough. I'll definitely pass on any info I get. While the priming system on the LM is touchy, it never really caused me too many problems....that I remember anyway . But I do seem to have a LOT of spare sliders in my stash. I'd say my biggest issue was the shellplate advancement. Went though a few flippers and even a couple of the bars the flipper attaches to.

I appreciate the continued suggestions. A few I've already accounted for, like extra springs for the LnL....vib tube filler. I did mess up on the LnL case feeder. I could have swore I saw it came with a plate...but it doesn't. Oops.

No check yet so I still have a bit of time to check things out.


Again....thanks much for the input!