Prohibited weapons

[navyretired 1]

A previous post hotly contested posted no carry business's, and should we comply.
Numerous recent shootings have been carried out in prohibited carry business which negates the purpose of concealed protection.
In most states the method and size of posting is specific and if not to those standards have the effect of no posting and being ignored by legal CCW's. In some cases these business's are just opting out on liability if use of a lawful weapon on the property occurs. In other cases the business don't know about the non-compliance in design and size of prohibiting signs.
I had a difficult time of finding those requirements on the internet for my state and once found have found that 90% or more don't comply. They either use hardware store signs which don't meet requirments or even computor create and print a sign.
CCW's need to find out which signs are in compliance and which are not because carrying concealed in a legally posted business can be prosocuted as trespassing with a weapon which can cost you your civil rights of ownership if considered a felony.
This is a long post I know but I felt an important issue was wasted by bickering personel attacks with little that was factual.

 

[psyopspec]

Agreed that those who carry lawfully concealed weapons should know the laws governing the places they carry.

Personally, I'm a property rights kind of guy when it comes to businesses who choose to ban.

 

[navyretired 1]

It might interest some to know that the only gun I've ever had stollen was taken out of my glove box when I disarmed to enter movie. Even though I was careful I was still seen and had a $expensive glass to replace.
Beleave it or not because I didn't remove the holster and someone call a security alert, at least the police were there when the break-in was discovered. LEO's were amazed when I showed up next day with data sheet, purchase reciept and digital pictures of gun.
The gun was recovered 3 weeks later when a stollen car was stopped and the guy bailed. Several stollen guns was in the stollen car and the guy was identified as a major drug dealer. He was killed 2 days later when the he was surrounded and shot it out with Police and Sherrifs.
The police returned my gun before the guy was stopped and shot it out. Seems that each of 2 officers fired 1 shot and the druggy fired 1 shot, he had 3 bullet holes in him so I guess he helped.

 

[Bliggida]

Navyretired 1,
I don't mean to criticize you. (take it as an English lesson) But having been in the military yourself. You should know the difference between rates and ranks and the respect that accompanies them. Police are Officer's. Sheriff's personnel are Deputies. There is only one Sheriff for a given county; and rarely does anyone interact with the Sheriff directly. If you want to generalize ALL of them, LEO is appropriate.

As far as the OP regards legalities.
I will say this.
I firmly believe that God teaches us to obey the authorities over us, and we are obligated to do so with the only exception that those laws violate His Word. If you further that reasoning (based on the 2nd amendment) - to believe your right (not only to carry) to protect yourself is ordained by God you have a moral defense for your actions which may or may not be applicable in the court of law. Suffice it to say there are consequences to your decisions. Is it more important for you to be alive, or to be legal? Does being alive mean carrying a gun, does it simply mean paying attention to your environment? These are things you must decide as an individual.

 

[ClayInTX]

navyretired 1,

States vary but you mention that your state has a required design for a notice to the public that guns are not allowed within.

This is similar to Texas. The signs must be in accordance with Law Code 30.06 (that’s right, 30.06—I often wonder how that number got picked but it does seem apt).

If not to 30.06 specs it isn’t a legal notice.

However, if an owner or his agent asks you to leave you must leave or you become guilty of criminal trespass. This is whether he has posted according to law or hasn’t posted at all.

You might need to dig into the law code of your state a bit more.

Of course, if he knows you are carrying then your concealment isn’t working.

 

[ClayInTX]

I recently had a rogue dogpack problem but because I live outside the city I couldn’t call for a CPO and had to get a SOD to come out. Of course, such problems are not the business of a SHPO.

The SOD called the ACO, who had a SOJT with her and brought me a trap to catch one of the RDP.

(Sometimes the devil just won't leave me alone.)

 

[bhk]

In Missouri, carrying in a legally posted establishment is against state statute but not a crime. It is an infraction, and only then if you refuse to leave when asked. You will not lose your gun rights. Entering a place with a sign not meeting legal requirements would seem even less of a problem, but I would not want to test the waters. It could certainly be considered trespassing if you refused to leave when asked. Either way, you know they don't want you in their establishment.

The best policy concerning posted places is to deprive them of your money. Spend it elsewhere. Being caught in a posted place may not be a major crime is some states, but it can still get your name in the paper, tarnish your name, and give all ccw holders a bad rap. Even if the penalties are minor, as they are in Missouri, if caught you may still end up being handcuffed and spend time at the station explaining yourself. Not fun. And, beware, carrying in a posted place in some states is a significant crime. For example, I believe it is a felony in Kansas.

 

[navyretired 1]

Bliggida: Do you want to give a law enforcement lesson or teach me I should be ready at all times with my concealed weapon.
I'm sorry for my ignorance of Law Enforcement ranks. The News paper article is in front of me and it say a Policeman and a Sherriff were involved in shooting. My specialty was military rate and ranks which I still know quite well.
As far as being ready, I try to be ready while also trying to respect a business owners wishes as long as I don't like the feeling of the place and feel I should be armed. I try my best to obey all laws if it doesn't endanger me and mine or some obviously needfull person in danger.
Clay buddy you might should see about some help it worked for me.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

A concealed weapon is supposed to be concealed. No one should be asking you to leave if they never know you are armed. We passed a CCW bill here in Ohio several years ago. Prior to that, citizens had to break the law to protect themselves with a CCW, and it was a felony. Now, we only have to break the law a LITTLE if carrying in a posted area (you still have to watch out for government building, schools, etc), but on private posted areas, it would only be a misdemeanor, and tresspassing as previously mentioned. To all the law abiding who will obey all signs (and speed limits, etc), my hat is off to you. For all those that might choose to carry concealed and "cheat" on the posted area, good luck. If you accidentally or purposely carry CONCEALED in a restricted area, who are you hurting or bothering? I like to think I'm making the world a safer place if I choose to CCW.

 

[wishin]

^^ +1
As someone so well put it on another thread, "That's why it's called Concealed Carry". If you've got a permit, keep it concealed and it won't be a problem. If told to leave, go.

 

[kmcintosh78]

+1 from wishin.
If it is a concealed weapon, no one should know that you have it.
And IMO, if it means having the ability to protect your family or not, I will keep my concealed firearm as a concealed firearm.

 

[The Bushmaster]

I really don't care what size the "gun free zone" sign is. If a business desides to put a "no gun" sign in their window they are really telling me that they don't want my money. Sooo...I go elsewhere to spend it...

 

[Mark F]

I have to agree. Those "no guns allowed" signs are really saying "take your hard-earned money elsewhere". I'm more than happy to oblige.

I don't go anywhere without being armed.

 

[The Tennessean]

I'm of the basic same opinion as Bushmaster, although I have encountered only a few business in my life (where I live) that had such a sign posted.

As for businesses barring employees from having guns on their property, I respect the property rights of the owner. I'm free not to work there.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

Most of the signs in Minnesota have disappeared over time. A lot of them were undoubtedly lawyer signs from some department in the various companies who were freaking out about potential liability.

It is not illegal for me to carry in a posted area under state law, it is only illegal to refuse to leave if asked.

So to me, it's not really a moral issue.

If in a private place where someone has asked me not to carry, then it would be disrespectful to do so there because the person is hosting me. In a store or public place, however, the business is looking for my money, so I feel no obligation to disarm, although I would leave if asked (And take my business elsewhere).

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

The title is misleading. We're not discussing "prohibited weapons", but "weapons prohibited".

Woody

 

[44Dave]

I have to agree. Those "no guns allowed" signs are really saying "take your hard-earned money elsewhere". I'm more than happy to oblige.

+1. I don't want to support the people who are working to take away my rights. They are free to think as they like, but the last thing I want to do is reward them with my money.

 

[navyretired 1]

MY point was the many ways the business's were trying to impose the liberal will on us CCW's, but I'm in agreement with everyone who says vote with your money.
When I got my gun stolen I was just trying to be agreeable because I had my grandson with me ,in retrospec that was more reason to continue to carry.
The only way the theater security knew that I'd had a gun is the empty holster which someone saw in toilet and complained. I really wasn't too concerned as I knew I was clean and holsters are not yet illegal.
I'm a little concerned about the fact everyone wants to chastice me for spelling, syntax, and my failure to stay armed and refuse to give the idiot's my money. What I'm trying to say is we're expected to follow the law to the letter or even to an what a business owner thinks is the law ,while they can do everything but post in Crayon. I would never have let my gun be revealed if I had actually been armed.
I thank everyone for they're imput though.