Proper way to lock back the slide on a 1911

[Good Ol' Boy]

Nope, no different from any other "normal" auto.

If you happen to shoot an entire mag full, so the gun is empty, the mag follower will press up the slide stop and lock the slide back for you.

However, during normal firing when you may want to clear the pistol without firing every round in the gun first, you'll need to drop the magazine and then lock the slide back. With the mag out the follower can't prop up the slide stop for you (obviously) so you'll need to do that yourself.

It becomes second nature to those of us who do much competition and training.

The standard stage end commands will be:
"Unload" (drop the mag and rack the slide to empty the chamber).
"Show clear" (lock the slide open and let the safety officer see the empty chamber).
"Slide forward" (close the slide)
"Pull the trigger" (pull the trigger to drop the hammer or striker on that empty chamber)
"Holster" (put it away)
"Range is Safe."

Obviously no slide will lock back without a mag. I did not realize that was in the original question.

On your competition shooting scenario, I'm obviously not familiar with them, but it would seem that keeping track of your ammo and dropping the mag with one left in the chamber would be more efficient, but I guessing that's not allowed based on your comment.

I can't imagine a circumstance in SD where you would need to manually lock the slide back with no mag, so I apologize for not realizing this was more of a competitive/sporting question.

I also appreciate the info given to help educate me...

 

[Sam1911]

Obviously no slide will lock back without a mag. I did not realize that was in the original question.

I think it was implied. Almost all autopistols lock the slide open on an empty magazine. If you aren't familiar with 1911s I can understand the confusion, but yes, he's asking how to properly perform the basic function to hold open the slide on an empty gun.

On your competition shooting scenario, I'm obviously not familiar with them, but it would seem that keeping track of your ammo and dropping the mag with one left in the chamber would be more efficient, but I guessing that's not allowed based on your comment.

I don't know how that would really work. Seems practically impossible in either a training scenario or anything other than the most rigid of set shooting sports courses of fire to count rounds and then somehow arrange to be finished at exactly that last round in the mag. And what would dropping the magazine with one round left in the gun solve? You still then have to clear the weapon. (?)

I can't imagine a circumstance in SD where you would need to manually lock the slide back with no mag, so I apologize for not realizing this was more of a competitive/sporting question.

Several thoughts come to mind:
1) You've neutralized a threat or chased one off. Police are arriving momentarily. You want to empty the gun and render it visibly safe and clear before setting it down and taking a step back to await their arrival and instructions. Locking the slide back shows all that the gun is inert.

2) Practicing at a "square range" when a cease fire is called, you need to be able to do the same thing: Lock back the slide and place the gun on the table to go line cold. Some ranges allow guns to remain hosltered in lieu of grounding on the table, but it's basic pistolcraft to be able to fully manipulate the weapon to acceptably handle all requirements.

3) Gun stores, gun shows, gun show-n-tell with pals at the range or wherever. You don't hand a gun to someone else with the slide closed (or action closed) do you? Of course not! So being able to quickly and smoothly lock back the slide is just "Basic Gun-Handling 101."

Edited to add:
4) VERY IMPORTANT: Clearing several kinds of malfunction are aided by or even require locking back the slide.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

I think it was implied. Almost all autopistols lock the slide open on an empty magazine. If you aren't familiar with 1911s I can understand the confusion, but yes, he's asking how to properly perform the basic function to hold open the slide on an empty gun.


I don't know how that would really work. Seems practically impossible in either a training scenario or anything other than the most rigid of set shooting sports courses of fire to count rounds and then somehow arrange to be finished at exactly that last round in the mag. And what would dropping the magazine with one round left in the gun solve? You still then have to clear the weapon. (?)


Several thoughts come to mind:
1) You've neutralized a threat or chased one off. Police are arriving momentarily. You want to empty the gun and render it visibly safe and clear before setting it down and taking a step back to await their arrival and instructions. Locking the slide back shows all that the gun is inert.

2) Practicing at a "square range" when a cease fire is called, you need to be able to do the same thing: Lock back the slide and place the gun on the table to go line cold. Some ranges allow guns to remain hosltered in lieu of grounding on the table, but it's basic pistolcraft to be able to fully manipulate the weapon to acceptably handle all requirements.

3) Gun stores, gun shows, gun show-n-tell with pals at the range or wherever. You don't hand a gun to someone else with the slide closed (or action closed) do you? Of course not! So being able to quickly and smoothly lock back the slide is just "Basic Gun-Handling 101."

To your second and third responses-

Leaving the last round in the chamber and dropping the mag to reload is better because there are no other manipulations needed once that fresh mag is loaded, other than start shooting again. Like I said, comps may not allow that, I really don't know.

Ways in which to "prepare" a firearm after a SD situation are purely subjective. Your point is valid but not warranted.


Again, I'm not familiar with 1911's, but nowhere originally was it specified as a competition scenario or SD scenario in this thread, so I guess I'm a little confused.

 

[mikemyers]

I've already gotten all the help I hoped for from this thread, but just to clarify:

I've got a 1911 with a VERY tight slide fit, and it is still somewhat difficult for me to "pull the slide back" so i can lock it in place with the slide lock.

That was solved with the suggestions to just "hold" the slide in the left hand, while forcing the frame of the gun "forward" with my right hand. Problem solved - but to keep the gun facing downrange, I first had to turn 90 degrees to the right.

A relative suggested there was a better way to do this - and once my gun frees up a little more, I'll be able to do it with the gun facing downrange, and me also facing downrange. The explanation is somewhere up above in some earlier responses - I can easily do it with my relative's Dan Wesson PM-9, which has a slide that's easy to move, but I can't yet do it with my Les Baer 1911.

My question was how to do it safely.

As to when to do this, there are several scenarios, which isn't really the question.

• If a round doesn't chamber properly, I need to drop the magazine, and rack the slide to get the "stuck" round out of the gun. After this, I need to lock the slide back. ....which is where this article came from, as my relative told me I was doing it "wrong". Thanks to Sam1911, I now know the way I've been doing it until now is acceptable. Still, when my gun loosens up a bit more, I'd like to be able to do it either of the two ways I now know of.
  
• Another scenario is when the people at the shooting range I go to are told the line is going "cold", I need to drop the magazine, empty a round that might be in the chamber, lock the slide back, and insert a plastic "tie strap thingie" through the barrel, so it's obvious there is nothing in the gun and no way for the gun to fire.

 

[Sam1911]

Leaving the last round in the chamber and dropping the mag to reload is better because there are no other manipulations needed once that fresh mag is loaded, other than start shooting again. Like I said, comps may not allow that, I really don't know.

Oh, sure. IF you are going to start shooting again right away, that can be the right way to do that. Though in the heat of the moment (i.e., the middle of a course of fire) most will just shoot to slide lock instead of trying to count rounds and remember when there's just one left.

However, when you're finished shooting a stage and/or the line's going "cold" you've got to be able to properly clear the weapon.

Ways in which to "prepare" a firearm after a SD situation are purely subjective. Your point is valid but not warranted.

Subjective? I'm not sure exactly what you mean. If you're saying there's several ways you might go about letting the cops take control of the scene, depending on the situation, sure. You might not always lock open and ground the gun, though that is probably the most visible and safest way to handle it.

Don't know why you'd feel my comments weren't warranted?

Again, I'm not familiar with 1911's, but nowhere originally was it specified as a competition scenario or SD scenario in this thread, so I guess I'm a little confused.

The need to lock back the slide or action of a firearm go WAY beyond self-defense or formal competition situations. As I said, it's "Basic Gun-handling 101" stuff used for a whole host of situations from performing a basic visual inspection of the gun, cleaning, handing any weapon to another person, etc.

Pretty much every time you need to render the gun SAFE, locking the slide open is one of the very first things you do.

 

[PabloJ]

What is the best way to rack the slide on a stiff 1911, keeping the barrel facing downrange, and having a finger free to lock the slide in place.

What I do now, is turn to the right 90 degrees, grip the stock with my right hand, push the slide back with my left hand, and use a thumb to push up on the "take down lever" to lock the slide in place. I doubt this is the right way.

Suggestions?

From what I can tell it works just like most pistols in that you insert loaded magazine and pull back the slide to load the first cartridge. When the gun slide stays back after last round from mag is fired I insert new mag and pull the slide back and keep on shooting. Simple yes?

 

[Sam1911]

Simple yes?

That part of operation, yes. Very simple.

Kind of like telling someone that to drive a car you press down on the gas pedal and it goes. Simple, yes?


Sure. Now what if you want to stop? Might need to present the rest of the operating instructions. ("Hey, Mr. Driving instructor, what are all these other pedals and knobs and switches for?" "Oh, don't worry about those. Just press the gas. That's all you need!" )




I'm a bit baffled by the number of people who seem to want to pretend (or maybe actually believe?) that there's no reason to bother learning or teaching how to lock open the action of a firearm. It's either a level of ignorance that I find hard to believe could be true (I mean, come on...you REALLY don't know when and why you should lock open the slide?), or internet forum childishness and deliberate obtuseness -- trying to mess with people by pretending that the question is stupid 'cause you just always shoot until the gun is empty.

It's like telling someone that you don't ever bother to turn off your car. Each day you just drive until it runs out of gas. "Simple, yes?"

 

[mikemyers]

I think this response said it all:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=10271507&postcount=12​

 

[Polar Express]

Gun stores, gun shows, gun show-n-tell with pals at the range or wherever. You don't hand a gun to someone else with the slide closed (or action closed) do you? Of course not! So being able to quickly and smoothly lock back the slide is just "Basic Gun-Handling 101."[/

Sam1911, I could not agree with you more! Sadly, I have encountered more and more stores, and 'counter-folk' who will routinely hand me a firearm with the action fully closed. My dad was a safety freak, and I'm grateful for that. One of his favorite stories to tell others was from when I was a young pup, had aced my hunter safety course, and we were hunting. A Fish & Game Warden asked to see my gun, I unloaded it properly (safely) and handed it to him with the action open, as I was/am accustomed to. When he inspected it, and went to hand it back to me, I refused it, as he was trying to hand it to me with the action closed.

It does bother me when a firearm is capable of the action/cylinder/gate holding open, when someone hands me a gun not in referenced condition. I've lost a lot of regard for the sales folks, and those stores. Sadly, it's so common these days, you can't really visit a store, and not have it happen. I guess that's part of why I avoided the stores for so long...

I guess it's a sign I'm getting old.. but what does it mean when the counter man is significantly older than I am???

PE

 

[bangswitch]

I asked the other person to show me how he does it, and he couldn't - so maybe I should have just ignored the advice.

You're learning fast; if someone can't demonstrate what they're telling you, find someone else to teach you.

The way you are doing it is fine. As long as you maintain muzzle discipline, whether you turn sideways or not doesn't really matter. The way that gives you the best control over the firearm, and the best leverage to pull the slide back and have your strong hand's thumb in place to push the slide lock in place, is the best way for YOU.

There are two basic ways for the weakside hand to grasp the slide;
1-thumb to the right side, middle knuckle of index finger on left side, at the rear section of the slide, grasping the grooved area. This will put the pistol sort of sideways (grip to the right) with the ejection port up.
2- weakside hand cupped over the top of the slide, thumb to the left side and knuckle of index finger on right side, at the grooves on the rear of the slide. This will tend to point the pistol to the left, so if you are at the firing line, you will need to turn to the right to keep the muzzle downrange. With practice, if you are working to unload the pistol, you can use this method, with the pistol turned so the ejection port is facing down, to catch the ejected round in your cupped hand as it is falling clear of the chamber, rather than letting it fall to the ground or tabletop. Before opening the chamber by pulling the slide, always remove the magazine first if you are unloading.

Whether you push with the strong hand or pull with the weak hand, the effect is the same; the slide moves to the rear. Your strong thumb should be on the slide lock, pressing up, and as soon as the locking notch meets the slide lock, it will move into place, locking the slide open.

There is also a correct and incorrect way to release the slide. The correct way is to pull back slightly on the slide and then release it. The slide lock will move out of the way and the slide will slam home. Don't "ride the slide" with your weakside hand. This increases the likelihood of a misfeed or misfire (jam or out of battery discharge). Although you may see many people just force the slide lock down with their strongside thumb and release the slide, it isn't the preferred way. Some pistols are difficult to release this way, some not, but all will release if you pull back and release the slide.

All the description I gave above assumes a right-handed shooter.

 

[PabloJ]

That part of operation, yes. Very simple.

Kind of like telling someone that to drive a car you press down on the gas pedal and it goes. Simple, yes?


Sure. Now what if you want to stop? Might need to present the rest of the operating instructions. ("Hey, Mr. Driving instructor, what are all these other pedals and knobs and switches for?" "Oh, don't worry about those. Just press the gas. That's all you need!" )




I'm a bit baffled by the number of people who seem to want to pretend (or maybe actually believe?) that there's no reason to bother learning or teaching how to lock open the action of a firearm. It's either a level of ignorance that I find hard to believe could be true (I mean, come on...you REALLY don't know when and why you should lock open the slide?), or internet forum childishness and deliberate obtuseness -- trying to mess with people by pretending that the question is stupid 'cause you just always shoot until the gun is empty.

It's like telling someone that you don't ever bother to turn off your car. Each day you just drive until it runs out of gas. "Simple, yes?"

Sorry, I forgot. When last cartridge is spent and slide is in rearward position. To put the gun away we depress magazine safety pull out mag a little and pull back on the slide which will then move to forward resting position. All we do is take mag out or seat it in well by tapping it smartly with palm of our hand. Now we "parked" the 1911 after range session. Yes, very simple.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

Sam and Polar,

I'm a big safety freak too, I'm just not understanding a situation in which you would need to manually try to push the slide lock up.

If I'm handing someone my pistol and it's empty I simply pull the slide back and the lock engages automatically.

If I'm handing someone my pistol and there are rounds still left I drop the mag and pull the slide back until the chambered round ejects and the slide lock automatically engages.

I've never thought about trying to manually push the SL up with no mag and an empty chamber, but then again I don't see a reason to need to do that.


Maybe my reading comprehension isn't what it used to be but I'm just not understanding a circumstance in which one would need to manually push the slide lock up.

 

[JTQ]

Good Ol' Boy wrote,
If I'm handing someone my pistol and there are rounds still left I drop the mag and pull the slide back until the chambered round ejects and the slide lock automatically engages.

If there is no mag in the gun, when you pull the slide back, the slide lock doesn't automatically engage. Without an empty mag in the gun, you have to push the slide lock up.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

If there is no mag in the gun, when you pull the slide back, the slide lock doesn't automatically engage. Without an empty mag in the gun, you have to push the slide lock up.

Yeah I don't see any reason to do that.

With no mag you can either hold it open a couple seconds so who your showing it to can see it's clear, or just rack the slide 2-3 times so they can see nothing's in the chamber.

Different strokes I guess....

 

[mikemyers]

Releasing the slide

.......There is also a correct and incorrect way to release the slide. The correct way is to pull back slightly on the slide and then release it. The slide lock will move out of the way and the slide will slam home.......

Until I read this, I've been releasing the slide by pushing down on the slide lock. What you wrote sounds like a better way to do this.

 

[X-Rap]

There are usually multiple ways of doing something right or wrong but the way described above in 39 is unacceptable by any measure.
It's fascinating that this discussion continues after proper, correct methods have been clearly laid out.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[JTQ]

Good Ol' Boy wrote,
Yeah I don't see any reason to do that.

Sam1911 has explained a few reasons why you may want to be able to do it.

 

[Sam1911]

Sam and Polar,

I'm a big safety freak too, I'm just not understanding a situation in which you would need to manually try to push the slide lock up.

Ok, well, let's try and work that out. Because there are BIG reasons to do so.

If I'm handing someone my pistol and it's empty I simply pull the slide back and the lock engages automatically.

You're going to hand someone a pistol with a mag still in it?

That's the FIRST step of unloading and making a handgun (or most semi-auto rifles, for that matter) -- REMOVE THE MAGAZINE.

That's really such a basic step that I don't know how one would fail to get through any club, service, department, NRA, private, or any other kind of safety instruction without that being deeply ingrained. Even if completely self-taught, it seems a bit odd that it hasn't occurred to you that the very first thing you do to clear a weapon is drop the mag -- EVERY time.

If I'm handing someone my pistol and there are rounds still left I drop the mag and pull the slide back until the chambered round ejects and the slide lock automatically engages.

No it doesn't. I can't think of a single auto pistol or rifle that will automatically lock open the slide with the magazine removed.

I've never thought about trying to manually push the SL up with no mag and an empty chamber, but then again I don't see a reason to need to do that.

What kind of pistol do you shoot? I'm having a hard time picturing how you've shot for very long without running smack into this issue and at least acknowledging this primary operation.

Maybe my reading comprehension isn't what it used to be but I'm just not understanding a circumstance in which one would need to manually push the slide lock up

I'm thinking we must somehow be talking past each other.

NO pistol I've ever heard of locks open the slide on its own with the magazine removed. (Cue Fuff or RC or Jim or somebody who will tell me about two models of Ortgies that did, four Nambus, and half a dozen early Mausers.... )

So you're either leaving the magazine in a lot when you should not be, or you're leaving the slide closed a lot when you should not be, or you're forgetting a step that you do habitually. I really can't think of another answer.

 

[Sam1911]

There is also a correct and incorrect way to release the slide. The correct way is to pull back slightly on the slide and then release it. ... Although you may see many people just force the slide lock down with their strongside thumb and release the slide, it isn't the preferred way.

Oh, wow let's not muddy this discussion further with that old debate.

There's LOTS AND MANY folks who use the slide lock (or slide release if you want to call it that) to drop the slide and chamber a round. I do it dozens of times at every match or practice. It is faster than the over-hand method and it is how I've trained, and how every serious competitor I watch on the range accomplishes that task.

But no, don't ride the slide down. That will cause malfunctions.

Until I read this, I've been releasing the slide by pushing down on the slide lock. What you wrote sounds like a better way to do this.

Either way works just fine. Use which one feels secure and sure to you. There are quibbling arguments on either side for why one way is "better" but in reality neither is right or wrong.

 

[Sam1911]

Sorry, I forgot. When last cartridge is spent and slide is in rearward position. To put the gun away we depress magazine safety pull out mag a little and pull back on the slide which will then move to forward resting position. All we do is take mag out or seat it in well by tapping it smartly with palm of our hand. Now we "parked" the 1911 after range session. Yes, very simple.

Still not addressing any of my questions about making a handgun safe, or actually answering the original poster's actual question.

If you don't know how to do what he's asking to do, either don't post or simply admit that you lack that knowledge.

 

[Sam1911]

If there is no mag in the gun, when you pull the slide back, the slide lock doesn't automatically engage. Without an empty mag in the gun, you have to

push the slide lock up.

Yeah I don't see any reason to do that.

With no mag you can either hold it open a couple seconds so who your showing it to can see it's clear, or just rack the slide 2-3 times so they can see nothing's in the chamber.

And that will work for showing it to a safety officer before the "slide down, pull the trigger, and holster" commands.
But if you're at a gun show, gun shop, or otherwise passing a firearm to someone else, if you don't lock the slide back, you're still then going to be handing them a gun with the slide closed (or with a mag still in it!) and that's a safety flaw we do hope is fading from our collective habits.

And even without either of those examples, I can think of several other important reasons to lock back the slide manually in various circumstances.
It's an important and very basic part of the manual of arms for any auto-loading firearm. To say you don't know and don't care to know, and can't imagine why you would want to doesn't seem to help us improve our knowledge or practices.

I've given quite a few reasons why. To continue to maintain that there isn't (or that you don't see) any reason to do that is either admitting you don't have the experience to have encountered any of those reasons before, have never had anyone around who was competent to instruct you in proper safety and firearms etiquette, or you are contending that those reasons -- however widespread, common, and well-understood by many here as they are -- are unimportant and beneath your notice. So which is it?

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

Ok, well, let's try and work that out. Because there are BIG reasons to do so.


You're going to hand someone a pistol with a mag still in it?

That's the FIRST step of unloading and making a handgun (or most semi-auto rifles, for that matter) -- REMOVE THE MAGAZINE.

That's really such a basic step that I don't know how one would fail to get through any club, service, department, NRA, private, or any other kind of safety instruction without that being deeply ingrained. Even if completely self-taught, it seems a bit odd that it hasn't occurred to you that the very first thing you do to clear a weapon is drop the mag -- EVERY time.


No it doesn't. I can't think of a single auto pistol or rifle that will automatically lock open the slide with the magazine removed.


What kind of pistol do you shoot? I'm having a hard time picturing how you've shot for very long without running smack into this issue and at least acknowledging this primary operation.


I'm thinking we must somehow be talking past each other.

NO pistol I've ever heard of locks open the slide on its own with the magazine removed. (Cue Fuff or RC or Jim or somebody who will tell me about two models of Ortgies that did, four Nambus, and half a dozen early Mausers.... )

So you're either leaving the magazine in a lot when you should not be, or you're leaving the slide closed a lot when you should not be, or you're forgetting a step that you do habitually. I really can't think of another answer.

Well you caught me lol, and I'm glad you did. I'd hate to be giving out false info. Honestly I'm a little preoccupied at the moment being on 2 other forums, watching/listening to netflix and ironically, cleaning my pistol.

No, no semi that I'm aware of either locks back without a mag in. What I meant to say was if the gun was still full, drop the mag and rack the slide 2-3 times.

I really don't see where having the slide back every time you hand someone a pistol is necessary. There are other ways to show the gun is clear is all I'm saying. I can't account for different organizations rules.


If everyone followed Coopers rules things like this wouldn't even be a discussion. If you feel uncomfortable with the way in which a gun has been presented to you then check it yourself, which you should be doing anyways. Taken to the extreme, even if you were handed a gun with no mag and the slide locked back you'd still rack the slide again just to be sure. Anyone who thinks the previous sentence is idiotic should have no problem with being handed a pistol in which there is no mag and the person handing it to you has racked it a couple times.


This really is getting ridiculous. There is more than one way to show a semi pistol is clear. Mike I did not mean to derail your thread, my initial intent was to maybe learn something about 1911's. And I did, as far as the slide action goes they're the same as other semi's. I apologize for getting off topic.

 

[X-Rap]

Seems like the OP needs to spend some time on the dry firing line and learn the simple manipulations while keeping muzzle and trigger discipline. But knowing how to hand off a firearm the safest way is something we all need to understand and the safest way of all is with the action/cylinder/bolt open and magazine ejected or empty if not detachable. It's really as simple as that.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[mikemyers]

Actually, the OP did know quite a bit of that, but certainly didn't know the tips in the link that Sam1911 posted way back when this thread started. The OP used to mostly shoot revolvers, and has been working hard at learning the 1911.

As to dry-firing, the OP has been doing that every day of the week, following the instructions from Keith Sanderson. The OP will gladly admit that he has a lot more to learn, and realizes that these threads can be very helpful, once he has confidence in the advice being given.


Oh, and the OP realizes that it's better not to hit the SAVE key until someone has verified that their fingers typed what the poster was trying to say. That, and read it once more to check for typos or errors due to being distracted or tired. .....as in right now, when this OP is 3/4 asleep.

 

[RecoilRob]

To those who say 'pull the slide back 2-3 times to show the gun is empty'...you should have been in my house many years ago when after doing exactly that I fired a .22 into the floor before putting the rifle away in the safe. Just racking the slide a few times does NOT Certify that the gun is clear!!! Your eyes and perhaps a finger up in the chamber are the only ways to verify that it's empty. Should that gun have a broken extractor...it could still be live and many will function normally even without a functional extractor so it might have gone many magazines flawlessly which is no indication it's totally healthy. Relying on an assumption (the extractor will empty the chamber) can cause you grief.