Proposed regulation forbids junk and bogus add on fees.

[Thomasss]

Now, the Federal Trade Commission has proposed a rule to ban “hidden and bogus fees that can cost consumers an extra $80 billion every year,” NBC News reported.
California already passed a similar law July 1 and now the FTC is proposing it too.
I WONDER WHO WILL BE THE FIRST TO FILE AGAINST HAZMAT SHIPPING CHARGES?????
Comments anyone?

 

[mcb]

Hazmat is neither hidden nor bogus.

 

[Thomasss]

Hazmat is neither hidden nor bogus.

It is my understanding that there is no HAZMAT requirement for an additional fee. And I do think Hazmat is "hidden" unless the seller cares to point it out just as they point out that buyers need to be a certain age to buy the cargo to begin with. There is no standard fee for hazmat. I've even seen some sellers drop the allege fee completely based on volume of the sale.

 

[easy]

A declared fee is not hidden. Just hated.

 

[PzGren]

The hazmat charge is not a cost that is passed on from the shipper to the customer but a cash cow with a healthy profit margin. Not just bogus and add-on fees should be forbidden but also price rigging and that is what I consider that the Hazmat charge exists only in the U.S.

 

[hk940]

My propane supplier charges a hazmat and gas surcharge, It's propane!

 

[12Bravo20]

Whether you agree with HAZMAT fees or not, they are required since there is additional costs to transporting anything that is considered hazardous material. I won't take into account the requirement for HAZMAT licenses that are required by the drivers.

Vehicle maintenance is more expensive for vehicles that transport hazmat. They have to be in very good mechanics shape and are inspected more often by the owners, local, state, and federal government. Then there is the additional requirements placed on transporting hazmat such as packaging, how they are loaded, etc.

There is also additional training requirements for drivers too. I had my hazmat license when I was in the Army. I first got it while stationed in Germany. So not only did I have to meet US laws/standards, I also had to meet German laws/standards.

 

[DustyRusty]

---

Prepare a list and have it ready when the "No hazmat fee" offer shows up. Watch for sale.
(Of course, you knew that.)

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

Buy local. No hazmat.

 

[mcb]

Buy local. No hazmat.

If local has what I want/need then I do, but few local stores get anywhere near the variety I can find on line. That's true for allot of products not just ammo.

 

[starnbar]

Hazmat fees
We should note that the hazmat fee is not a tax or fee from the government – not local, nor state, nor federal. The government does not collect or otherwise receive one cent of the hazmat fee. All of it goes to the company for the purpose of investing in employee training and other measures of improving hazmat safety and compliance. Companies can choose whether or not they want to include the cost of hazmat training as a factor in how they bill their clients. Airlines, trucking companies and vessel lines will charge a higher per pound or kilogram rate for the shipment to off set the cost of doing business when handling hazardous or dangerous goods shipments in commerce as well.

​

 

[HKGuns]

We don't need no more regulations, we're already swimming in them. We also don't need the .Gov protecting us from our own or bad decisions.

Less is more.

 

[12Bravo20]

Buy local. No hazmat.

I know that you pay the same price in store at Graf's as you do ordering online AND paying the hazmat fee.

 

[epags]

Hazmat fees
We should note that the hazmat fee is not a tax or fee from the government – not local, nor state, nor federal. The government does not collect or otherwise receive one cent of the hazmat fee. All of it goes to the company for the purpose of investing in employee training and other measures of improving hazmat safety and compliance. Companies can choose whether or not they want to include the cost of hazmat training as a factor in how they bill their clients. Airlines, trucking companies and vessel lines will charge a higher per pound or kilogram rate for the shipment to off set the cost of doing business when handling hazardous or dangerous goods shipments in commerce as well.

​

stanbar is correct about what the hazmat fee is not.
The discussion should focus on 'cost of doing business'. The seller does have additional training and labeling costs which the seller can choose to include in the cost of the product or charge as a line item. I think of postage since sellers can absorb or charge the buyer for. As a seller I would have to look at how competitive my cost of a product is and decide how to handle the cost of selling hazardous materials.
As I see it, if the seller posts a notice there is a hazmat fee (his own fee...not a govenment fee) it is not hidden nor is it bogus.

Watching

 

[epags]

Now, the Federal Trade Commission has proposed a rule to ban “hidden and bogus fees that can cost consumers an extra $80 billion every year,” NBC News reported.
California already passed a similar law July 1 and now the FTC is proposing it too.
I WONDER WHO WILL BE THE FIRST TO FILE AGAINST HAZMAT SHIPPING CHARGES?????
Comments anyone?

I have to modify my earlier position. In reading the proposed legislation, it is to stop a seller (of services or products) from not showing the full cost up front but buries certain fees such as a manditory hotel resort fee (that shows up on your bill when you arrive and are paying for the room).

So as Thomasss points out if you search on line for gunpowder or primers, the price per pound or 1000 shown should have a statement such as "this price does not include hazmat fees, shipping and any applicable taxes".

An example of an up front notification is that my local gun range charges a $3.00 hazmat cleaning and disposal fee per person, BUT notifies a potential customer of the fee BEFORE he or she signs up to shoot.

 

[MrShooter]

The hazmat charge is not a cost that is passed on from the shipper to the customer but a cash cow with a healthy profit margin. Not just bogus and add-on fees should be forbidden but also price rigging and that is what I consider that the Hazmat charge exists only in the U.S.

Welding suppliers are the worst abusers of the hazmat charge, I had one hit me for 20$ on a 35$ roll of Welding wire! When I started walking out the door he said he could eliminate the charge.

 

[CapnMac]

Actually, the more pointy question, is how much will this "extra fee protection" actually cost us.

I remember when the regs were changed and phone bills were required to be itemized as to all of the charges that make up the final bill. While there was som (slight) outrage over the revealed fees, there was also no way to remove or delete them. And, atop all that, the additional expense required to itemize all the bills wound up being one of the line items in the bill.

This will wind up being like closing costs or the Tax, Title, and License fees you pay when buying a car. Those are not optional "add-on" expenses, but 'direct" costs triggered by the sale itself.

 

[Thomasss]

Vehicle maintenance is more expensive for vehicles that transport hazmat. They have to be in very good mechanics shape and are inspected more often by the owners, local, state, and federal government. Then there is the additional requirements placed on transporting hazmat such as packaging, how they are loaded, etc.

Although this statement is true, I have a local supplier charges 1/2 the going hazmat fee in this area, about $15 per total order and he does very well by his rate. And his rates and hazmat fee is noted at the time of sale.
I have worked with a variety of shippers over the years and I find no big deal in shipping the stuff we shooters would handle. After all we are not receiving nuclear bombs or bacterial agents than can wipe out large areas. Any good conditioned truck that can lock up containers and prevent them from "rolling" or sliding around during transport will do. Remember now, it is the seller's requirement that the products are properly packaged and labeled, not the shipper. All the shipper has to do is deliver them in one piece. It is true, however, that other hazardous material outside of our hunting stuff may need substantial interior modifications when shipped.

The government does not collect or otherwise receive one cent of the hazmat fee.

But you see it is state government that regulates the hazmat system. Drivers need to be tested, and they also need a security endorsement. Their trucks are singled out and inspected frequently at weigh stations. Their hazmat license is good for 5 years, but its cost varies from state to state. We are talking approximately $100 to $250/5 years. That's prorated to $25/year. Around here, that's one hazmat delivery. I still think if their hazmat fee was stated with the selling price, as proposed now by the FTC, there wouldn't be price gouging and maybe more price competition.

 

[12Bravo20]

Remember now, it is the seller's requirement that the products are properly packaged and labeled, not the shipper. All the shipper has to do is deliver them in one piece.

It is also the shipper's and driver's responsibility that all hazmat is properly secured for transport. That is part of the training and requirements for having a hazmat license. Don't fool yourself if you think that federal or state DOT won't fine a driver for not having hazmat properly secured during transport.

As far as fees go, I've seen them average between $15 and $25 for the most part.

 

[Frank Ettin]

The hazmat charge is not a cost that is passed on from the shipper to the customer but a cash cow with a healthy profit margin. ...

And on exactly what do you base that conclusion?

The reality is that the shipment and carriage of what are classified as hazardous materials are subject to significant, federal regulation (Chapter 51 of Title 49 of the United States Code, "Transportation of Hazardous Materials"). See 49 USC 5103:

...(a) Designating Material as Hazardous.—

The Secretary shall designate material (including an explosive, radioactive material, infectious substance, flammable or combustible liquid, solid, or gas, toxic, oxidizing, or corrosive material, and compressed gas) or a group or class of material as hazardous when the Secretary determines that transporting the material in commerce in a particular amount and form may pose an unreasonable risk to health and safety or property.

(b) Regulations for Safe Transportation.—

(1) The Secretary shall prescribe regulations for the safe transportation, including security, of hazardous material in intrastate, interstate, and foreign commerce. The regulations—

(A) apply to a person who—

(i) transports hazardous material in commerce;
(ii) causes hazardous material to be transported in commerce;
(iii) designs, manufactures, fabricates, inspects, marks, maintains, reconditions, repairs, or tests a package, container, or packaging component that is represented, marked, certified, or sold as qualified for use in transporting hazardous material in commerce;
(iv) prepares or accepts hazardous material for transportation in commerce;
(v) is responsible for the safety of transporting hazardous material in commerce;
(vi) certifies compliance with any requirement under this chapter; or
(vii) misrepresents whether such person is engaged in any activity under clause (i) through (vi); and

(B) shall govern safety aspects, including security, of the transportation of hazardous material the Secretary considers appropriate....

Complying with regulatory requirements adds to the costs of doing business in hazardous materials.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

I have found that the folks who have never been in business for themselves are the most knowledgeable about the profit margin of businesses.

 

[hk940]

Welding suppliers are the worst abusers of the hazmat charge, I had one hit me for 20$ on a 35$ roll of Welding wire! When I started walking out the door he said he could eliminate the charge.

How did they try and justify charging a hazmat fee on a roll of wire, or do they just add on a hazmat fee to every purchase?
You don't pay a hazmat fee when you purchase powder or primers from a local GS.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

The hazmat charge is not a cost that is passed on from the shipper to the customer

Actually, it is, indeed, a part of costs of inputs. It increases labor costs. The shipping department has to have someone who is certified to ship hazmat, and that training and certification is not free. Plus there is a recert requirement as well. The employee must be paid his or her wage to get the training, which means the employer is paying for an unproductive employee, and the training must be paid for as well. Sure, you might call it "just a cost of doing business" but those costs are always paid by the consumer. Is ther some opportunism in there? I'm sure there is.

Not just bogus and add-on fees should be forbidden but also price rigging and that is what I consider that the Hazmat charge exists only in the U.S.

Indeed. We should ask the government to set prices of good and services. Except they will set them so low that no one will want to provide them, and that will really cause shortages. Price controls (ceilings) always lead to shortages. Just look at NYC rent.

I don't think hazmat shipping fees are going away. And if the government ever does make them go way, sellers will just stop shipping hazmat goods altogether. In fact, the more I think about it, eliminating hazmat fees might be an effective back door ammo sales ban/anti-2A strategy.

 

[Robert]

Hate it all you want, hazmat fees are not going away. Let's call this one done.