Pros & Cons of caliber? Range?

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Joshboyfutre

Joshboyfutre

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What r the differences in caliber size for rifles & pistols (single shot or cap & ball). What r some of the ranges I should expect from a .50 Hawken Rifle. I would love to hear everyones input. Im using .50 for my rifle and plains pistol & .44 in my 1860 Army.
P.s. by differences I mean effects like range, velocity, effectiveness. I dont want a list of sizes lol.
 
Range for punching paper or for hunting? For target shooting obviously you can fire at great ranges, but for hunting you need a minimum of X energy (where X is what you're satisfied with) and that'll set the upper limit.

Also, what are you going to shoot out of the guns? The nature of the round ball is that it's not the prettiest design for ballistic efficiency in flight. Conicals will retain energy better at range. However, not all guns shoot conicals accurately.

Too many variables; there's that Lyman book which has BP rifle ballistics with various bullets so you can know what to expect. "Black power handbook and loading manual"
 
I'm looking for info on bullet drop at different ranges for different powder loads on .50 round ball personally but after thinking about it any ballistic info would be interesting.
 
The .490" ball has a ballistic coefficient of 0.069 and the .457" ball (doubt there's any difference from a .451" or .454" ball) has a coefficient of 0.065.

Your velocity will be determined by your powder, granulation, and charge, along with barrel length and tightness of fit of your projectile. Maybe the patch lube effects it a little too as might the percussion cap (or lack of).

I use 3F powder for my .50 cal Lyman Deerstalker, Ruger Old Army, and Pietta NMA. I use mostly Olde Eynsford but also use Triple 7.

I've yet to work up an accurate enough hunting load with a ball from my rifle. I'm getting 3-3.5" groups at 50 yds which doesn't cut it for me, but then I've merely been breaking in the barrel using 70 grn charges and cheap grape seed oil for patch lube.

My Ruger shoots mostly my 195 grn WFN bullets and does fairly well with 35 gems of powder giving me roughly 3" groups at 15 yds offhand. My NMA shoots mostly my shorter version of bullet that weighs 170 grns with 30 grn charges giving me about 3.5" groups.

I've yet to get any chronographed results from my pistol bullets (I sent some out along with weighed charges to get a fair idea, but doubt I'll get results until it warms up), but judging by Mike Beliveau's results using my powder the lighter bullet and charge likely gives about 375 (+/- 25) ft/lbs near the muzzle and the heavier bullet and charge about 475 (+/- 25) near the muzzle.

According to Hodgdon's data (I'm using the 80 grn 2F T7 data figuring it close to my 70 grn 3F charge) my ball is somewhere around 1840 fps near the muzzle. The trajectory is good out to about 125 yds but the wind drift is terrible.

Assuming I can tighten those groups up and do well out further I figure 100 yds is about all I'd feel that comfortable with, and wouldn't shoot past maybe 75 yds if it were breezy. I doubt my skills at estimating wind speed but do fairly well with distance.
 
Bob, did that one guy ever get back to you about the chroni tests for your WFN in the '58?? Im really interested in them if he did, but im in and out a lot so I may have missed it..
 
Just about all the information you seek is available in the Black Powder Handbook which I believe was published by Lyman and is probably out of print but should be available on Amazon or ebay.
 
No he hasn't. I figure winter has him penned is as he's up north (Idaho?).

I'm quite curious myself!
 
I spent some time up there.. Idaho winters can be ROUGH man. We left there one time on June first and there was still snow flying... Total white out over the great divide a couple days later...

Heck even here shooting aint easy! Had to put off the last two times I was supposed to go.. Lol.. Maybe ONE day..
 
I have to rely mostly in experience, as I have not delved deeply into science.

Your depth of rifling, barrel length, twist, patch, lube, and powder will all have an influence.

Depth of rifling, for instance, in a 1/48" twist barrel designed for bullets will prevent you from using large powder charges, or you start to "strip" out of the rifling. I found in my TC Hawken that about 80 grains was the maximum I could use for hunting, and that 50-60 was my best for target accuracy. Deeper rifling, thicker patches, shallow, thinner.

The depth of rifling will have an impact, so with deeper rifling you should be able to bump up the load a bit and pull off a bit longer shot. My hand-built Hawken has a longer barrel, deeper rifling, and appears to prefer a 120 gr load of 3F. Don't understand the science, but that's what it digests best for target shooting, for hunting I use a slightly larger ball (.495) and 140gr.

More details and such, but I find that about 125 yards is my limit. I am actually more accurate with iron sights than a scope, mostly because I have shot so little with a scope. I would not take a longer shot on deer than that.

For elk, I have a .62 rifle, with a 44" barrel. So all the variables are different yet again. But due to drop, etc, I would hold myself to 100 yards.

And the old saying of "beware the man with only one gun" at a shooting match. My .50 has been shot so many times that some days I feel like I can close my eyes and punch center, but I'm not as familiar with the 62 so I will be a bit more conservative.

I guess all this goes to say, is that you need to work through loads and patch/ball combinations and find what is going to work best for your rifle. And then shoot it a lot!
 
In the old days before ballistic gelatin, pine boards were the standard for testing. How many inches did it penetrate?
 
Was that southern pine boards or yankee boards? East or west and do you have density charts of the boards before they were used for testing? Ohh and was the board quarter sawn, flat sawn or rift sawn?

All this stuff is so silly, our ancestors would laugh and then head out into the woods to bring home supper while their descendants sit at home figuring out nearly useless information.

To all you newbies out there, go out and shoot yer rifles, then shoot them some more and repeat!
 
Joshboyfutre said:
What r the differences in caliber size for rifles & pistols (single shot or cap & ball). What r some of the ranges I should expect from a .50 Hawken Rifle. I would love to hear everyones input. Im using .50 for my rifle and plains pistol & .44 in my 1860 Army.
P.s. by differences I mean effects like range, velocity, effectiveness. I dont want a list of sizes lol.
Click to expand...
For 100 yards with a round ball, properly lubed patches, and trajectory is going to depend entirely on velocity however.... at any proper load, you're going to be getting between 1500 and 2000 fps in a 50 caliber (hunting) and you will have a point blank range of 120 to 140 yards on deer.

Another thing is energy. From what I've learned with an airgun, shooting round balls, is that we have had this energy thing all messed up... it doesn't take much to kill with a round ball or even light bullets on game even with smaller calibers than 50. In airguns, 50 caliber is pretty much top dog... and while some are using heavy conicals, the round ball (what we're talking about here) and they are ecstatic about 600 fps and 200 to 300 fpe.. that's terminal energy with a muzzleloader at 125 yards. Moral... stop thinking about it and concentrate on accuracy loads.

I have yet to have a round ball or any muzzleloader projectile actually except one, stay in an animal with a heart lung shot broadside... none lengthwise either but they've been messy (I hunt with a .58 caliber mostly and just starting with a flint .54). My 58's got a low of 1200 fps with carbine and 80 grains max of 3f/P and 1400 with that same load in my 30" barrel and that is what I hunt with. 50's with 100 grains or 120 grains will be up close to 2000 fps and still a 120 yard point blank range... meaning point and shoot.

Pistols on the other hand are a wayyyy different story. I've not chronographed my 44's but if you're hunting with them, I'd keep my ranges to 1 yard per per grain of charge which some old shooter once told me and looking at my targets from different ranges, I'm tending to agree with that from a practical standpoint.... your arguments on this may vary... :D

Aloha... :cool:
 
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