armoredman
Member
This is one reason my wife and I started shooting at a public range, as the trash situation at the wildcat ranges is terrible, several places shut down due to slobs with stolen cars, refrigerators, etc. Scumbags. :banghead: 
Public range slobs - rant! long!
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38SnubFan
Member
I've tended to get a little miffed at the local State Game Lands public range closest to me (Dillsburg, PA), at least the pistol range. I was always taught to clean up my own damn mess, yet everytime I go there targets are still hanging on the backstops, and you can't walk anywhere without stepping on empty brass.
People have gotten just plain ignorant too. Sometimes I don't even have space in my lane to set my ammo and targets down, because the miserable SOB next to me has his stuff spread all over God's creation!
A few months ago, I was at the range when two 21 or 22-year old shooters were practicing with their Glock .45s. They would stand at a 10-yd lane and shoot diagonally across to 25 and 50-yd. targets. They would consistently overload their magazines (range rules allow no more than 6 rounds loaded at a time on a pistol range, no more than 3 rounds at a time on a rifle range). At one point, when one of the little brats stood 2 feet to my left and consistently managed to pop his ejecting brass into the side of my head. I ended up shooting horribly, and left the range rather angered
.
However, I still shoot at this range since it's close to my house, and can't see the point of paying $10/hr. to use an indoor range. If people don't start keeping it clean though, it's liable to end up being shut down as well.
-38SnubFan
People have gotten just plain ignorant too. Sometimes I don't even have space in my lane to set my ammo and targets down, because the miserable SOB next to me has his stuff spread all over God's creation!
A few months ago, I was at the range when two 21 or 22-year old shooters were practicing with their Glock .45s. They would stand at a 10-yd lane and shoot diagonally across to 25 and 50-yd. targets. They would consistently overload their magazines (range rules allow no more than 6 rounds loaded at a time on a pistol range, no more than 3 rounds at a time on a rifle range). At one point, when one of the little brats stood 2 feet to my left and consistently managed to pop his ejecting brass into the side of my head. I ended up shooting horribly, and left the range rather angered
.However, I still shoot at this range since it's close to my house, and can't see the point of paying $10/hr. to use an indoor range. If people don't start keeping it clean though, it's liable to end up being shut down as well.
-38SnubFan
Pepe Domingo
Member
You guys talk like it was paradise 20-30 years ago. At least in my area (PA) I remember things to be much worse. People dumped crap all over the rural areas. It was everybody from farmers to city people. Anybody remember Pittsburgh in the 50's and 60's? I would be willing to wager that with the end of steel production, clear cutting and coal mining, west PA is the cleanest it has been since the turn of the century. It is all about popluation and education.
38snubfan.....did you think about letting the "little brats" (20 year olds?....geez, what are you, 70?) know that they were in the wrong? Maybe a little education was in order.
I can sympathize, however. I have a game lands range less than 5 minutes from my back door. Do I go there? Hell no. Trash all over the place and hassles from the game police because my iron does not fit the profile of a hunter/gatherer very well. It is a shame, but the days of nice, free public ranges i.e. old Macdonalds farm, are over.
38snubfan.....did you think about letting the "little brats" (20 year olds?....geez, what are you, 70?) know that they were in the wrong? Maybe a little education was in order.
I can sympathize, however. I have a game lands range less than 5 minutes from my back door. Do I go there? Hell no. Trash all over the place and hassles from the game police because my iron does not fit the profile of a hunter/gatherer very well. It is a shame, but the days of nice, free public ranges i.e. old Macdonalds farm, are over.
The challenge has always been to make people, especially the young ones, realize that there are consequences to thoughtless actions. If they don't make that connection, the blame lies squarely with my generation for not being better stewards and mentors. After all, we were going to change the world for the better in the 60's (I'm 53) and look what we've done.
There are bright spots. Things like the national park system, rails to trails and much cleaner environment in many respects. But there seems to be no pride of ownership, and something that is not earned is not respected. I'm afraid our example is the primary tool we have to show 'em the right way, and then we've got to be tactful and kind or we do more damage than good.
I wish I had the answer, but meanwhile I try to pack out more than I brought in. If a few more people do that, perhaps we can instill some pride and appreciation for the outdoors and what few ranges we have left.
There are bright spots. Things like the national park system, rails to trails and much cleaner environment in many respects. But there seems to be no pride of ownership, and something that is not earned is not respected. I'm afraid our example is the primary tool we have to show 'em the right way, and then we've got to be tactful and kind or we do more damage than good.
I wish I had the answer, but meanwhile I try to pack out more than I brought in. If a few more people do that, perhaps we can instill some pride and appreciation for the outdoors and what few ranges we have left.
38SnubFan
Member
Actually, I'll be 28 in less than 3 weeks. But that's besides the point - my point was more about HUMAN courtesy than range courtesy. The thing is, they weren't even respecting the rules of the range posted at EVERY STATION, let alone many other places on the range. I spoke to them, but unfortunately they were the types that think they know EVERYTHING and stand taller than everyone else (especially because the one is the son of an LEO).
-Snub
jefnvk
Member
Maybe you and the other responsible range users could have a talk with the owner. Remind him of the things you did to help the stiutation. Maybe you'll find yourself a new private range.
YammyMonkey
Member
It all comes down to how you were taught and what examples were set for you. My dad and I used to go out to a rancher's land occasionally to shoot hand thrown clays and other things. We would always make a point of picking up our empties and the busted clays. I still try to leave an area cleaner than when I got there, but sometimes it's pretty discouraging to see all the random crap that people leave around.
One thing that really gets me
is when people don't bother to scout their shooting area. There's some public land that's open to anybody, but is primarily a motorcycle trails area near a friend's house. There is a designated "shooting hill" that the trails are routed around, and it's pretty well know to stay clear when riding. Last year we were riding on an established trail, through a draw and when we popped out there was a family shooting into the side of the draw from above. What in the world makes some people think that it's okay to shoot over a trail with very limited visibility?
We all need to make an effort to be cleaner than the last guys, and to educate those we shoot with to clean up and be smart about our shooting otherwise we'll start losing places to shoot faster than we already are.
One thing that really gets me
is when people don't bother to scout their shooting area. There's some public land that's open to anybody, but is primarily a motorcycle trails area near a friend's house. There is a designated "shooting hill" that the trails are routed around, and it's pretty well know to stay clear when riding. Last year we were riding on an established trail, through a draw and when we popped out there was a family shooting into the side of the draw from above. What in the world makes some people think that it's okay to shoot over a trail with very limited visibility? We all need to make an effort to be cleaner than the last guys, and to educate those we shoot with to clean up and be smart about our shooting otherwise we'll start losing places to shoot faster than we already are.
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
ID shooting,
Get together with some other shooters that the landowner knows and respects. Get his permission to shoot their for your members. After making arrangements with him post signs which state that any people who do not have permission to be on the land are trespassers and will be prosecuted as such. Then call him and the cops when you see someone who doesn't have said permission. Limit your membership to folks who know how to clean up their own messes. If a member forgets how then boot him. If he comes back then have him arrested for trespassing.
Get together with some other shooters that the landowner knows and respects. Get his permission to shoot their for your members. After making arrangements with him post signs which state that any people who do not have permission to be on the land are trespassers and will be prosecuted as such. Then call him and the cops when you see someone who doesn't have said permission. Limit your membership to folks who know how to clean up their own messes. If a member forgets how then boot him. If he comes back then have him arrested for trespassing.
Sir Aardvark
Member
We used to have a public place nearby the L.A./Orange County area called Lytle Creek. It pretty much ended up turning into a dump. The place was littered beyond description. Of course, it is now closed to shooting, but, I do believe that there is a small 'pay to shoot' range close by there now.
saltydog
Member
Like "Big Inch" said:
"It comes down to common courtesy, which is not so common any more."
The slob mentality is taking over....
"It comes down to common courtesy, which is not so common any more."
The slob mentality is taking over....
Peet
Member
saltydog
I remember my sister-in-law early on in her teaching career (we're both
in our early 50s now) saying that our generation was raising a generation
of monsters. This, mind you, from a real liberal!
But the trash prob isn't new - back in the 60s a troop of girlscouts got lost
in the woods behind our place. We saddled up and followed the trail of
trash. My old man could say some real harsh things without ever using
a dirty word...
/P
Amen!
I remember my sister-in-law early on in her teaching career (we're both
in our early 50s now) saying that our generation was raising a generation
of monsters. This, mind you, from a real liberal!
But the trash prob isn't new - back in the 60s a troop of girlscouts got lost
in the woods behind our place. We saddled up and followed the trail of
trash. My old man could say some real harsh things without ever using
a dirty word...
/P
It seems to me that people have always been slobs. There's more of us now then there were even forty years ago. Archeologists get a lot of research data from trash. It's just that 3,000 years later the trash is valuable. In 1901 Theodore Roosevelt was on his way to Washington D.C. to take over the White House after McKinley was killed. His train took him through Western Pennsylvania. He remarked on the trash, lost of forestry and the pollution from the oil fields. This was in 1901.
And as much as I hate to say it the days of free shooting ranges are pretty much gone. Liability, laws etc. have made this a reality. Ranges are more tightly controlled and safer (hopefully). There are still places, free locations, I can go to shoot, but with the drive time involved I'd rather drive into Boise and spend ten dollars for a lane at a local indoor shooting range.
And as much as I hate to say it the days of free shooting ranges are pretty much gone. Liability, laws etc. have made this a reality. Ranges are more tightly controlled and safer (hopefully). There are still places, free locations, I can go to shoot, but with the drive time involved I'd rather drive into Boise and spend ten dollars for a lane at a local indoor shooting range.
TheOtherOne
Member
We had some extra nice weather today so I took the dog up the canyon and on the way, right in the middle of the road, there was a whole pile of empty shotgun shells and an empty cardboard box of those clays you can get at wal-mart.
I wish fish & game would of been there when they were shooting. I'm almost positive you can't legally shoot directly off the road.
I wish fish & game would of been there when they were shooting. I'm almost positive you can't legally shoot directly off the road.
45R
Member
Its really too bad that those slobby shooters don't see the value of the land that they are shooting on......
mr.trooper
Member
Sad to say, i see this too.
There is a free DNR range about 45 minets away on a 3,000 acre plot of public hunting land, but its the pits. dont have the room for refridgerators / lawnmowers/ cars, but the empty ammo tins spent brass and empty hulls.
I find it much more enjoyable to go to the small indoor range that is 2 blocks from my home. The guy who owns it is a great guy, an wouldnt put up with that junk. if he saw you trashin up the place he would expell you on the spot (or maybee hed just shoot you, i dont know)
We have had some problems with Jearks also. Guys like to come in and rent the ranges AR-15....and then spend the next hour shooting up the Over-head tracks, and putting holes in the target trollies.
People never pick up their brass either! they leave all maner of Rifle and pistol casings, and empty hulls lalying around. i dont mind that to much however, as i make sure that all of my brass ( and any loose brass) is promply swept up and dumped into my range box, to be sorted into the proper bins sitting mext to my reloading bench. I admit, that i am a bit of a brass Pirate. IV got brass for guns i dont even own LOL.
People definately need to get some RESPECT.
There is a free DNR range about 45 minets away on a 3,000 acre plot of public hunting land, but its the pits. dont have the room for refridgerators / lawnmowers/ cars, but the empty ammo tins spent brass and empty hulls.
I find it much more enjoyable to go to the small indoor range that is 2 blocks from my home. The guy who owns it is a great guy, an wouldnt put up with that junk. if he saw you trashin up the place he would expell you on the spot (or maybee hed just shoot you, i dont know)
We have had some problems with Jearks also. Guys like to come in and rent the ranges AR-15....and then spend the next hour shooting up the Over-head tracks, and putting holes in the target trollies.
People never pick up their brass either! they leave all maner of Rifle and pistol casings, and empty hulls lalying around. i dont mind that to much however, as i make sure that all of my brass ( and any loose brass) is promply swept up and dumped into my range box, to be sorted into the proper bins sitting mext to my reloading bench.
I admit, that i am a bit of a brass Pirate. IV got brass for guns i dont even own LOL.People definately need to get some RESPECT.
Cross,I like your idea of getting an agreement with a landowner, and oraganize a few paying shooters. More personal responsibility and incentive to keep the range clean. There are no more "informal shooting ranges around here for a good 30miles. And unfortunately, the private shooting range, that I joined 2 yrs ago, is getting really trashed with ammo boxes and beer cans. There is nobody there to supervise the action, and the volunteers in the shooting club just don't show up. I've done my share to pick up trash and put it in my garbage can at home, but its getting pretty bad. The 3 yr old enclosed shooting stands are falling apart; there's still a dirt floor which is presently flooded by the thaw, and the insulation is peeling off the ceiling and hanging down. I hate to pay the yearly fee for such a dump, but its the only place in town right now.
Havegunjoe
Member
It's someone elses fault!
Someone else will clean up the mess. :banghead: That's the attitude these days. I'll leave my crap lying all over the place and someone else will take care of it because I'm too busy and I'm too improtant.
Wouldn't you just love to smack some people up side their head?
Someone else will clean up the mess. :banghead: That's the attitude these days. I'll leave my crap lying all over the place and someone else will take care of it because I'm too busy and I'm too improtant.
Wouldn't you just love to smack some people up side their head?
My brother and I have some land with several miles of ATV trails and a couple of shooting ranges set up. We finally had to gate and post the area because of people leaving trash when riding the trails and shooting down pine trees near the shooting ranges. We have steel targets set up so they had something to shoot at already. Now we let friends we think we can trust use the place. Every few weeks we get together to grill out and shoot and ride the trails, this way everyone who has permission to be here knows everyone else. This has worked out pretty good and has cut down on the damage and litter considerably. I have came up on people cleaning up and repairing roads on their own. This makes me feel that they at lease appreciate the use of the place. We try to keep it kid and family friendly with no excessive drinking and such.
What is all you folks problem!??!?
Punchin holes through paper gets real boring after awhile. Thats why I like to bring cinder blocks, beer bottles and other assorted trash to shoot. If I went to the range where somebody brought an old car for me to shoot up I would be thanking him.
Im tired of all the old farts with their minute of ???????, 2000$ scope, pretty'ed up bolt actions complaining about us plinkers trying to have a little fun. ????, havent these guys ever heard of ruger and tasco. More trash is just more things to shoot at. Plus too many pine trees could cause a forest fire.
Hell a few beers and some shootin never did anybody no harm. So what if it bends one of the ten commandments, jesus drank wine too.
Punchin holes through paper gets real boring after awhile. Thats why I like to bring cinder blocks, beer bottles and other assorted trash to shoot. If I went to the range where somebody brought an old car for me to shoot up I would be thanking him.
Im tired of all the old farts with their minute of ???????, 2000$ scope, pretty'ed up bolt actions complaining about us plinkers trying to have a little fun. ????, havent these guys ever heard of ruger and tasco. More trash is just more things to shoot at. Plus too many pine trees could cause a forest fire.
Hell a few beers and some shootin never did anybody no harm. So what if it bends one of the ten commandments, jesus drank wine too.
ojibweindian
Member
An excellent example of "shooting range trash".
You're either trying to be funny, or frightfully stupid. I think the later.
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
Slim - I do hope very much you are just trying to pull our collective chain!!
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