Published load data for WIN bullets?

[brhuffm]

I'm new to reloading (about 400 rounds into it, that is), and I've been reloading 9mm with Speer 115 gr TMJs. I've been following the load data in the Speer manual, and as all the rounds have gone to plinking, I'm satisfied with the starting loads. I'd like to buy some Winchester 115 gr FMJ-RN for reloading, but neither the Speer (obviously) nor the Lyman manual has data for this bullet. I've looked online for WIN bullet reloading data, but haven't found any. My question is, how do I determine a starting load and COL for the round? The Speer bullet is .57 and I've been loading to a COL of 1.146 in a case at .746 (.17 of the bullet in the case). Can I just measure the WIN bullet and assume .17 in the case to determine a COL? (i.e. if the WIN bullet is .47, use a COL of 1.010? That's seems kind of short for a 9mm). If I assume the same bullet weight and case volume available for powder, can I use the same starting load for the Win 115 gr that's listed for the Speer 115 gr? I've been using 7.7 gr of Blue Dot and have had no problems. Thanks in advance for the help.
Ben

 

[LiveLife]

Been shooting Winchester 115 gr FMJ for years at 1.125" OAL and 4.8 gr W231/HP38.

Can't find load data??? Plenty of load data for 115 gr 9mm here - http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

115 GR. FMJ Winchester WSF .355" 1.169" 4.9 1060 - 5.7 1195
115 GR. JHP Winchester WSF .355" 1.169" 5.2 1095 - 5.7 1165
115 GR. LRN Hodgdon Longshot .356" 1.100" 5.0 1032 - 6.0 1166
115 GR. LRN IMR 800-X .356" 1.100" 4.5 1004 - 5.3 1128
115 GR. LRN IMR SR 4756 .356" 1.100" 4.5 1027 - 5.2 1145
115 GR. LRN Hodgdon HS-6 .356" 1.100" 6.4 1117 - 6.9 1170
115 GR. LRN Winchester AutoComp .356" 1.100" 4.4 1002 - 5.1 1145
115 GR. LRN Hodgdon Universal .356" 1.100" 4.0 1034 - 4.5 1124
115 GR. LRN Winchester 231 .356" 1.100" 4.3 1079 - 4.8 1135
115 GR. LRN Hodgdon HP-38 .356" 1.100" 4.3 1079 - 4.8 1135
115 GR. LRN IMR PB .356" 1.100" 3.3 974 - 3.7 1061
115 GR. LRN Hodgdon Titegroup .356" 1.100" 3.9 1075 - 4.3 1151
115 GR. LRN IMR 700-X .356" 1.100" 3.3 986 - 3.7 1082
115 GR. LRN Hodgdon Clays .356" 1.100" 3.0 954 - 3.4 1039
115 GR. SPR GDHP IMR 700-X .355" 1.125" 3.9 991 - 4.2 1091
115 GR. SPR GDHP Hodgdon Longshot .355" 1.125" 5.0 1127 - 6.0 1203
115 GR. SPR GDHP Hodgdon HS-6 .355" 1.125" 6.7 1171 - 7.0 1234
115 GR. SPR GDHP Winchester AutoComp .355" 1.125" 5.1 1078 - 5.6 1161
115 GR. SPR GDHP Hodgdon Universal .355" 1.125" 4.5 1029 - 5.0 1149
115 GR. SPR GDHP Winchester 231 .355" 1.125" 4.7 1075 - 5.1 1167
115 GR. SPR GDHP Hodgdon HP-38 .355" 1.125" 4.7 1075 - 5.1 1167
115 GR. SPR GDHP IMR SR 7625 .355" 1.125" 4.5 1031 - 4.9 1113
115 GR. SPR GDHP IMR PB .355" 1.125" 3.6 957 - 4.0 1038
115 GR. SPR GDHP Hodgdon Titegroup .355" 1.125" 4.5 1135 - 4.8 1158
115 GR. SPR GDHP Hodgdon Clays .355" 1.125" 3.7 1066 - 3.9 1095

 

[LiveLife]

brhuffm, 115gr Winchester FMJ bullet nose tapers rather quickly and I can't seat the bullet too much deeper than 1.12" OAL before the diameter of the bullet decreases less than the inside neck size.

I have essentially loaded Winchester 115gr FMJ bullet at 1.125" OAL and simply varied the powder charge. For W231/HP38, I started out at 4.3 gr and worked up from there. I got good accuracy at 4.6-4.8 gr and currently run my loads at 4.8 gr.

Blue Dot - Suggested starting load: 7.2 gr Max: 8.0 gr 1,190 fps 1.12" OAL - Alliant

If you are running 1.12"-1.125" OAL, 7.7 gr of Blue Dot is near the max, but you can start out at 7.2 gr and work up from there.

 

[brhuffm]

Okay. I guess I'm confused. I was under the impression that load data from the manual was for the bullet listed, and if using a different bullet to seek out load data from the manufacturer. But your numbers for the Win 115 gr are the same listed COL and 231 data in the speer manual for the GDHP. Is that coincidence or just the way it works out? Lyman doesn't list data for a 115 gr FMJ, but their 115 gr JHP has 231 from 3.5 to 4.9 gr with a COL of 1.090. Say I find a deal on Rainer 115 gr FMJ. Can I assume the same starting load and COL as I would use for a Speer 115 gr TMJ?

 

[LiveLife]

Some bullet profiles differ in nose shape and how much of the bullet base is inserted into the case (deeper the bullet, greater the chamber pressure). That's why FMJ OAL and powder charge differs from JHP bullet profiles.

Sometimes, bullet profiles from different companies come close enough that load data is very similar or same for OAL and powder charge.

It's been my experience that Winchester 115 gr FMJ bullet profile is such that 1.12" OAL is the deepest I can get before the nose diameter gets smaller than case neck. That's why I just keep the OAL at 1.125" and adjust my powder charge.

If you have Blue Dot, using 1.125" OAL and starting load of 7.2 gr should be fine. I usually choose the most accurate charge, but since powder ignition improves at higher pressures, you probably end up working up to 7.7 gr any ways. Load up some test loads at various charges and see which gives you the most accurate shot groups.

Say I find a deal on Rainer 115 gr FMJ. Can I assume the same starting load and COL as I would use for a Speer 115 gr TMJ?

Only if their bullet nose profile is similar (chances are for 115gr round nose shaped bullets, they will be very similar). BTW, Rainier bullets are plated and not jacketed.

To add more confusion, Total Metal Jacket (TMJ) is often treated same as Complete Metal Jacket (CMJ). Rainier Ballistics bullets are copper plated lead bullets (have thin copper plating instead of thick copper jacket). I have been able to load Rainier bullets to near max FMJ load data and they have done well. Traditionally, it has been recommended that you load plated bullets to mid range loads of FMJ load data like hard cast lead bullets, but in recent years, plating/bonding process must have improved because I have seen less and less of plating separation from lead core issues with plated bullets.

 

[brhuffm]

Got it. Thanks much for the quick reply!

 

[Runningman]

I'd like to buy some Winchester 115 gr FMJ-RN for reloading, but neither the Speer (obviously) nor the Lyman manual has data for this bullet. I've looked online for WIN bullet reloading data, but haven't found any. My question is, how do I determine a starting load and COL for the round?

Winchester loads their factory 115 gr FMJ rounds to 1.150 - 1.155 COL on the cartridges I have for samples. This would be the best place to start if you are using the Winchester bullet. If it is a another manufactures bullet design it may not be the best place to start. Since the bullet profile may change.