Pump gun shooting trap - how do you work your action?

[70extreme]

This is just a question for pump gun shooters.

Shooting trap, I see most people, after they make the shot, cycle the action to the rear as they lower their gun ejecting the empty shell. Then, when it is their turn to shoot again, they drop a new shell in the chamber, close the action and shoot their next shot.

Wouldn't it be better from a muscle memory standpoint (if you hunt and/or shoot clay games with frequent doubles) to immediately and fully work the action after every shot? Then, as you lower the gun down, cycle the action to the rear waiting for your next turn to shoot.

Admittedly, in trap, you would be working the action on an empty gun after your shot. But, it seems to me that the first method could build habits that could cause you foul your pump stroke. If you work the action fully (even if it is on an empty chamber), you are doing the same thing every time for singles or doubles and training yourself to instinctively cycle your gun after the shot.

What do you think?

 

[Jon_Snow]

If you want to be a good trap shooter, then just opening the action is good. The less noise you make the less likely you are to accidentally foul someone else's shot by releasing a bird early. Also, many ranges don't like you to have you action closed unless you are the one shooting. I considered working the action completely like you described when I was first getting into trap, but it was strongly discouraged at my club. If you're just shooting trap informally with some friends, then go ahead.

 

[FLNT4EVR]

Jon is correct on both points.You would be very distracting to the other shooters and may cause them to break their concentration.It is against the rules at every trap shoot I have ever been to ,to close the action on your gun after your shot.And, if you were to persist in doing so,after you were once corrected ,you may be asked to leave the line.Some trap shooters are very serious on the line and won't even put up with other shooters talking while on the line.

 

[70extreme]

I think I may have not explained it right.

Theoretically a person would shoot. Then, while the gun is still mounted and pointing downrange, shuck the action fully. As the person lowers the gun, the action would be opened.

I think the answers will still be the same because shucking the gun will distract the other shooters.

 

[oneounceload]

And shucking your empty, instead of catching it, could get you some nasty looks and comments if you start bouncing your empty off someone's gun or head.....

 

[bigalexe]

In general at our club even the league guys shuck the empty's and pickup afterward if they are using a pump. What will get you yelled off the line though is having your action closed at any point where it's not your shot. It's also not looked upon well if you habitually close it after every shot and then use the slide release to open. At another local club during a recreational shoot (unscored, open lines) my friend got yelled at for habitually doing a full rack just once.

Trap anymore is a game, it's not a hunting simulation. If you are looking for a hunting simulation I suggest you check out some of the other clay games but I don't want to start a war by mentioning what one I think is the best.

PLEASE DON'T JUMP ON ME I DO LIKE TRAP, I AM NOT KNOCKING THE GAME.

 

[DAP90]

I shoot trap with a pump 90% of the time. I also hunt with one. I found that for me the most important piece of muscle memory to build wasn’t the pumping action but the mount.

I don’t know if this true everywhere but where I shoot they allow me to call out pull and mount the shotgun after the bird is in the air. After doing that a thousand times I got much better at it in the field. I occasionally see others doing the same. I’ve only shot trap in casual practice sessions; never in a tournament or organized event. I very much doubt I would do so there.

I don’t always do it but if I’m shooting well otherwise that day I will just to give myself the extra challenge. I’ve never had any problem working the pump action. I’m certainly much slower on the second shot with a pump but that’s to be expected.

 

[oneounceload]

I don’t know if this true everywhere but where I shoot they allow me to call out pull and mount the shotgun after the bird is in the air. After doing that a thousand times I got much better at it in the field. I occasionally see others doing the same. I’ve only shot trap in casual practice sessions; never in a tournament or organized event. I very much doubt I would do so there.

There is no rule against using a "low gun" mount for trap shooting - it just isn't the best method if your goal is to win the shoot. If you're just doing it for some fun and hunting practice, have at it.

Personally, if I really wanted to prepare for hunting, I would shoot sporting clays or FITASC. European sporting and FITASC mandate a low-gun, American sporting does not, but you can shoot it that way if you wish - besides, with no voice releases, the game is more sociable, and kidding around and fun ragging on someone who missed a "gimme" is usually the norm - just like hunting with your biddies in the filed

 

[70extreme]

It sounds like there is not a real good solution to this problem.

I understand the concerns about not disturbing other shooters. My main concern is that I don't want any clay game to make me less effective as a hunter or in self defense.

That means I need to violently, fully work the action immediately after every shot.

Hmmm....

 

[oneounceload]

That means I need to violently, fully work the action immediately after every shot.

- As mentioned, typically not allowed on a trap line for various reasons, safety being one.

Unless you plan on shooting thousands of rounds of trap, you most likely will not develop any memory sense to hinder you in any hunting or HD scenario

Solution - shoot trap doubles, Bunker where two shots at a single is the norm, or skeet doubles

 

[DAP90]

Personally, if I really wanted to prepare for hunting, I would shoot sporting clays or FITASC. European sporting and FITASC mandate a low-gun, American sporting does not, but you can shoot it that way if you wish - besides, with no voice releases, the game is more sociable, and kidding around and fun ragging on someone who missed a "gimme" is usually the norm - just like hunting with your biddies in the filed

The place where I normally shoot trap put in a 5 Stand course last summer. I've been practicing on that more often than Trap now. I'm still pretty bad, missing far more than I hit but that was true of Trap when I started that too.

Everyone I've asked advice from has suggested a low-gun mount as actually being better for 5 stand. I've only shot Sporting Clays once. 5 Stand is similar but without a course; just five station grouped together, and in this case eight(?) throwers sending clays at all different directions, angles and speeds. Pretty challenging.

 

[DAP90]

Solution - shoot trap doubles

This is how I got started. My friend and I would use one of the ranges spring loaded hand trap throwers and shoot doubles off of that. I can't say how common they are on all shooting ranges but ours has maybe a dozen that throw at three different speeds.

We shot doubles on those until we hardly ever missed and then moved over to auto-trap. That would allow you to practice the pump without disturbing anyone.

The 5 Stand I mentioned in my other post is also shot as doubles. It's very hard with a pump but it would be great practice. The one time I shot Sporting Clays that was also doubles (expensive though).

 

[70extreme]

5 stand is much harder. Last weekend, I tried it for the first time. I shot a 22 on skeet. Then, I decided to give it a try. I got a 16. Not that good.

 

[oneounceload]

5-stand, as y0u mentioned, is sporting in a compact format, (hence the European name "Compak"). My club uses 12 machines, including a wobble from over and behind you, as part of the format - I don't shoot trap and rarely bother with skeet (unless I am practicing crossing pairs), as 5-stand and sporting is more fun. As top cost - where I am, a round of trap or skeet is about $6.00 and 5-stand is $7.50 - a round of sporting (100 targets) is $30 - right in the ball park and a lot more fun.

To avoid the issues on the trap field, you would most likely be better off on the skeet field - it has more presentations that are closer to upland than trap anyway - and if you shoot it as nothing but doubles, you'll keep working that action until your arm gets tired..... (why I prefer my O/U and my wife loves her semi)

 

[DAP90]

5 stand is much harder. Last weekend, I tried it for the first time. I shot a 22 on skeet. Then, I decided to give it a try. I got a 16. Not that good.

You did better than me. I went from 23-24 on Auto-Trap to 6 on Five-Stand my first time out. I can hit maybe 10 now on a good day.

I''ll be pretty happy when I get to 16. If you can do that with a pump I wouldn't worry too much about your ability to quickly throw the action.

 

[oneounceload]

A semi or O/U is definitely a better choice for games where there are pairs and they move quickly and in different directions - there's a huge difference between "pasture clays" and regular trap or skeet, and an even bigger difference when you get to 5-stand or sporting. I reload 12 gauge hulls with 3/4oz of shot for 5-stand and they work just fine in my gun that fits me well

 

[Milkmaster]

When using a pump to shooot trap, the empty hull is usually thrown from the gun (or caught with a shell catcher) before I even look or lower the gun. The action comes open when I shoot while I am concentrating on my follow thru etc. It is even more that way when I use the Win 1300. I never worry about closing the bolt again after shooting. It stays open until my turn again. I load the next shot and close right before calling for the bird.

Using a semi-auto like the 1100 is similar as well. The bolt stays back by itself until I am ready to shoot again.

Shooting doubles with a pump seems like the best way to practice the second shot without causing undue criticism on the trap stations. Your shotgun will still be empty and the bolt open after your turn.

That bolt being open makes everyone around you much more at ease Safety is number one.

 

[70extreme]

Thanks for all the great replies. I am considering buying a clay thrower and using that to practice with my pump. I can still use my Benelli M1 and M2 for the clay games.

 

[cfullgraf]

I first started shooting skeet, it was with a pump. I was able to train myself to cycle the gun for doubles but only open the action on singles.

So, it worked fine for me for field work.

I switched to an over/under for skeet and have lost the ability to effectively shoot a pump. On the rare occasion that I shoot a pump at skeet, I almost have to shoot singles exclusively as I almost never remember to cycle the action.

In the 30s and maybe up into the 50s, the gun to shoot in skeet was a pump.

Generally speaking, I do not know of a shooting game where you do not have the action open when not actively shooting. As others have said, doubles might be the best way to practice leaving the action open after the second shot.

Sporting clays or one of the derivatives would be the best training for hunting. While the presentations in skeet are different as you go around the field, the targets are same each time at each station.

Note, skeet is my favorite clay game, but I do respect the challenge of the other games.

 

[kev778]

I just started with the clay sports and I have an 870 Wingmaster. When I shoot trap. I don't cycle the empty completely. I open the action and with my fore finger and middle finger slightly off the ejector opening I catch the shell with my two fingers so as not to hit anyone or any gun. It is fairly easy after a couple of tries. Granted I probably miss 1 out of 7 or so, but at least I give it the ole college try.

Admittedly, I prefer wobble, skeet, and the sporting clays games to be more in my wheel house. Sporting clays being the toughest.

 

[Jim Watson]

Hey, you could take up 3-Gun. Shuck that pump a LOT.

 

[Mark8252]

Pump Shotgun

I skeet shoot with a 870 Wingmaster regularly. Use the pump enough and all of it will be second nature. Nothing to worry about. Practise practise practise is always true with any gun. The skill of the shooter is what will break the clay or save a life....not the type of gun itself.

 

[toivo]

So you're talking about doing three actions--open, shut, open--where only one is needed. It's not just a problem of the sound disturbing the other shooters: it's a problem with the voice-activated throwers that are universal nowadays. They have a short "freezeout" period after you call the bird, so that the report of your gun won't trigger another throw. Any sound made after that will often trigger another bird. Even people who are too slow to shuck will sometimes cause that to happen. It messes with the next guy's concentration, not to mention that it wastes birds.

 

[NG VI]

Sounds like single trap shooting is the prima donna shooting sport.

I didn't realize there was a sport so overwhelmingly sensitive to other shooters even dealing with their arm the way they felt comfortable for the second it takes to rack and then clear a pump shotgun.

 

[oneounceload]

Sounds like single trap shooting is the prima donna shooting sport.

Nothing prima donna about it or any other shooting sport - it takes concentration and discipline. Certain folks like to shoot with others as they seem to develop an acceptable rhythm when shooting that helps everyone keep their groove. Trap is about not missing any targets - distractions like that are counterproductive