Pyrodex, Triple 7, or the real deal...

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I have a 30 and 50 cal Cannon and been using Pyrodex without an issue. Works awesome. been using “RS”.

I have just ordered several BP Replica reproductions. A Perdasoli 20 gauge percussion Howdah, a Pietta Lemat, and a Pietta 1858 44cal.

So would their be a problem with continuing to use Pyrodex RS? (2Fg)? Or should I be better off choosing the 3Fg version of Pyrodex?

Is their an Advantage to using Pyrodex or Triple 7? Or even true BP? I have also noticed Pyrodex Select. A little more expensive, but only available in 2Fg RS version.

Thoughts?

I am also considering purchasing the golf ball cannon made right here in Texas. 18” Barrel with overall 21” length. They are still recommending using 2Fg on that cannon and not 1Fg. Would this change anything on powder selection?
 
Pyrodex is the devils powder and should be taken off the market. I use real black that i make myself and if not i use my stash of black mz i still have. 777 would be my next choice. Why not just buy the 2 supplies needed to make black powder? The 3rd ingredient, charcoal, is free. Ivs very simple to make and fun
 
There’s nothing wrong with Triple 7. However, it’s important to clear. Triple 7 is not less corrosive than real black powder. The substitutes exist because they skirt the regulations for storage of black powder while having a similar volume/power ratio. I don’t like
Pyrodex, and I prefer to genuine black powder, but I understand that people can’t necessarily source it locally and don’t like having to buy it 5 lbs a go on-line. So any of them will be fine.

Granularity size is the means by which burn rate is regulated with black powder and subs. So 3F is more suitable for cap and ball revolvers and pistol cartridges. Generally speaking, 2F is used for shotguns. When we get to rifles, it’s much more of a preference thing. Lots of folks use 3F in muzzle loading rifles right up through the largest calibers. In black power cartridges, people have to figure out for themselves what they think works best.

For your uses, you can probably get away with using 3F for everything, but maybe back off from maximum loads just to provide a little safety cushion on the cannon.
 
Consider trying 777 in the revolvers because it's sulfur free, and reduced loads can be used.
In the other percussion guns it's personal preference, but I'd use Pyrodex P.
 
777 works great in revolvers, I have used BlackMZ as well as Pyrodex, 777 can leave some nasty deposits especially in long guns. Any of them will work, I go with what I can find locally and at a reasonable price.
 
Just bite hazmet fee and order 5lbs of 3f black powder. Schutzen, regular Goex are fine for plinking. Yes, you can use 3f in a shotgun or rifle, just adjust your charge levels down a bit. Pyrodex is way more corrosive and abrasive than the real deal black.
 
Two questions...

1. What is it that everyone doesn’t like about Pyrodex?

2. is the only difference between 2F and 3F is burn speed? With 3F burning faster then 2F?

Since I have a Cannon and considering getting a golf ball cannon, I will probably keep getting 2F. But since I will have both a pistol and 2 short shotguns (6” 20 gauge on the Lemat, and the 12” Perdesoli Howdoh)
 
I personally have no use for the substitutes. In my opinion they have two reasons for existing. The first, as Doc mentioned, is for those places where lawmakers have made it difficult to obtain or store blackpowder. The second is to satisfy those poor empty souls who believe that newer must be better, and so who buy inline muzzleloaders and want to load them with something "modern".

Or maybe I'm just a grumpy old man. :thumbup:

Regardless, it seems to me I run across far more posts asking advice about solving some problem caused by substitutes than I ever see about true black blackpowder. Unless a fellow is legally prevented from it, I would use the real thing.
 
Two questions...

1. What is it that everyone doesn’t like about Pyrodex?

2. is the only difference between 2F and 3F is burn speed? With 3F burning faster then 2F?

Since I have a Cannon and considering getting a golf ball cannon, I will probably keep getting 2F. But since I will have both a pistol and 2 short shotguns (6” 20 gauge on the Lemat, and the 12” Perdesoli Howdoh)

1. It's personal preference and many people actually prefer Pyrodex.
Each powder has its advantages and disadvantages.
Because everyone has some personal bias, many don't want to acknowledge any advantages with the other types of powders.
Pyrodex can have slightly more difficult ignition, because it has less sulfur than black powder I think.
And it's often said that Pyrodex can create more corrosion if not cleaned promptly, depending on factors like humidity.

On the other hand, Pyrodex can sometimes offer more velocity, and may also be safer during the loading process.
And the subs are a very consistent and uniform product.

2. I often state my opinion that Pyrodex 3f burns cleaner than 2F.
I think that it also ignites easier than 2F because the smaller grains flows better into the flash channel and under the nipple of many percussion guns.
This is never really a problem with revolvers due to their inline design.
Yes, Pyrodex 3F has been shown to burn faster which results in higher velocity than 2F, so approximately 10% less can be loaded.

777 is considered to be even more dificult to ignite than Pyrodex at times, depending on the gun.
That's probably due to its formulation without sulfur.
Sulfur lowers ignition temperature, so perhaps the less sulfur, the higher the ignition temperature needs to be.
777 is also more powerful than most black powders, and creates more felt recoil, so 15% - 20% less can be used compared to Goex, depending on the granulations.

Most people don't experience any or many problems with the sub's if they clean their gun, flash hole and nipple.
Residue can build up, but that's why they make nipple picks.
And the finer granulations of sub. powders helps to make for more reliable ignition.
Some guns can be quirky if they have a narrow flash channel or drum,which requires slapping the gun before ramming the ball so that the powder will flow into the flash channel.
Also, placing the hammer on 1/2 cock and removing any spent cap remnants from the nipple allows escaping air to whoosh the powder along under the nipple when the ball is rammed.

Black powder has the best ignition because of its formulation, and it also has the most sulfur, which may cause more fouling.
It depends on the brand and granulation of powder, and the humidity and how much is being loaded.
Not all black powder is the same because they are made with different wood charcoal.
Black powder is often easier to clean with simple water or soapy water, but there can also be more creosote produced.
Some sub. residue can be stubborn to remove, and there are solvents, soaps and household cleaners that can help.
Inadequate removal of fouling is what usually causes corrosion issues, even with black powder.
777 can be removed with simple water depending on factors like how much is loaded.
777 can burn the cleanest of the 3, or create a slightly sticky but mostly water soluble residue.
Higher amounts can cause it to carmelize with high heat to form a crust or beads of crust, that's usually in rifles with heavy loads and it can be stubborn to remove.
Smaller charges don't produce the same problem.
Any ignition issues that persist with any powder should be able to be rectified by cleaning or by using magnum caps as a last resort.
Most people never have a problem if they clean their gun unless the granulation is too large and their flash channe too small like when Pyrodex 2F is used.
Fouling can block the flash channel or nipple of nearly any gun after many shots with very heavy loads, which isn't always the fault of the powder.
 
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1. What is it that everyone doesn’t like about Pyrodex?

2. is the only difference between 2F and 3F is burn speed? With 3F burning faster then 2F?

Howdy

I have a bottle of Pyrodex pellets that I got as a door prize a bazillion years ago. I have never used them. Having said that, the consensus seems to be that Pyrodex is more corrosive than real Black Powder. Real Black Powder is nowhere near as corrosive as most people think, I can attest to that. The problem with corrosion and Black Powder a long time ago was combined with corrosive primers the fouling was very corrosive. We don't use corrosive primers any more, and I can attest that shooting real Black Powder and not cleaning it immediately will not turn the gun into a pile of rust. I am embarrassed to state how long my revolvers, rifles, and shotgun sometimes sit after a CAS match. I try to clean them within a week, but sometimes it has gone much longer.

I load everything with FFg these days. 45-70, 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 44 Russian, 44-40 and 38-40 and 12 gauge shotgun. Years ago I kept FFFg for the metallic cartridges, but after a while I got tired of stocking two different granulations. Because FFFg grains are a bit smaller than FFg grains, they have more surface area compared to the size of the grains. So they burn a little bit faster than FFg grains. On average, for the pistol cartridges I mentioned (everything except 45-70) you can expect between 60 fps - 100 fps more velocity with FFFg than FFg, everything else being equal.
 
I dislike Pyrodex for two reasons. The first is the sticky-like fouling on my revolvers. Second is I can’t rely on its performance. As a hunter I have a minimum threshold for power and from what I’ve seen it might get there and it might fall well short and be more akin to standard Goex and other less energetic powders.

I use 3F Olde Eynsford and Triple 7 powders. One day I’ll try Swiss, but that sums up my options (there’s a French powder ive read that’s good but doubt it comes here). I prefer black powder to the substitute.
 
I dislike Pyrodex for two reasons. The first is the sticky-like fouling on my revolvers. Second is I can’t rely on its performance. As a hunter I have a minimum threshold for power and from what I’ve seen it might get there and it might fall well short and be more akin to standard Goex and other less energetic powders.

I use 3F Olde Eynsford and Triple 7 powders. One day I’ll try Swiss, but that sums up my options (there’s a French powder ive read that’s good but doubt it comes here). I prefer black powder to the substitute.

Just as a data point, Rodwha, after a long love affair with Swiss, I have switched to OE almost entirely. I have one really accurate rifle that shows a preference for Swiss. None of my other guns care. Velocity, fouling, and clean up are all identical between Swiss and OE, and much better than with Goex, KIK, etc. so I no longer see the point in paying for Swiss.
 
I don’t like Pyrodex because it stinks and chokes me when shooting and it stinks to clean.

I have no use for any subs at present. I don’t hunt so I don’t really care about velocity. and if I’m going to deal with the extra hassle of loose powder and extra cleanup I’ll stick with one that ignites well and smells right and doesn’t lock up my revolvers and cleans up relatively easily.
 
One thing i noticed about pyrodex is how agressive the fouling is when it comes to corrosion. As mentioned above, the fouling is "sticky" and thick...even if a good lube is used. I believe this "sticky" characteristic is what makes it so hard on guns because its hard to get rid of completely using standard methods that clean black powder fouling. You have to really scrub every nook and cranny of your gun with more than just water and balistol etc. I found myseld having to use a brass brush to get rid of fouling. If standard procedures are used such as just a patch and water/ballistol mix....it is not going to get rid of the agressive fouling. I once shot my revolvers using different powders just to experiment...and the gun that shot pyrodex had surface rust the next day while the rest were clean. I found that its sticky fouling gets into the pores of the metal and i had to use a brass brush and my favorite cleaner "L.A. Totally Awesome" and scrub scrub scrub. I think the sticky fouling also mixed with waxy lubes get it really deep into the metals pores and a degreaser is needed to help break down the wax and oils/fats used as lube. Now this is my experience and may not be everyones ..as ive heard some people use it without any issues. I live on deep south texas so im assuming the humid air contributes to the negative experience. Most that have a good experience live in dry arid regions.
 
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