Question about .22 Survival Rifles

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Kestrel

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Does anyone have one of those Springfield Armory M6 rifles? (.22LR/.410) Do they break down? Is there some sort of carry case? What do you think about these guns?

Also, I remember seeing some .22LR break-down rifles. The barrels would unscrew and could be stored in the stock. I think the gun would float? Are these still made by anyone? What are they called? What do you think about these guns?

Are either of these guns any good? Do they break? Do they work?

Thanks,
Steve
 
I knew a guy that had a Henry Survival .22 rifle. He said he carried it in his canoe to keep the water moccasins away. According to him, it did float.
 
Steve,

The AR-7 will in fact float. It can do it either assembled or disassembled. The rifles are currently manufactured by AR-7 Industries, although they've been produced by Armalite (hence the AR designation), Charter Arms, and Henry. I have a Charter Arms version which I love. My fiance loves it as well. The only problem I've had is that it prefers some brands of ammo over others.

AR-7 Industries website

Frank
 
I don't own any of these .22 LR survival rifles, but the one I will buy is the Marlin Papoose. Stainless barrel. I like the quality better than the others. The rifle doesn't float, but the case it comes in does.
 
What's the Papoose? I didn't see it on the Marlin web site.

Steve
 
This is the Papoose.
Click to expand...

What's street price on a Papoose? Not that I get a lot of use out of my .22 right now (I'm much more likely to take an air gun out plinking on my dad's back 40), but this is cool.
 
I have the m6 - .22/.410 - simple as it gets, good build, odd trigger config., shoots well, extractor is not advanced, but works. Performs as advertised.
 
I got on the AR7 kick a few years ago, loved the design, hated the gun. If it would shoot it was not at all accurate, if accurate it would not feed reliability. At one time I had four and could not get one together that was reliable. Even had a Armalite. The others were were all Charter arms, don't know about the newer ones.

rk
 
Happened to see an AR-7 in a shop today. NO THANKS. Looked like a piece of garbage.

Can anyone post a picture of how compact the M6 folds up?

Actually, I'm not sure how useful the .410 part would be. Now, if I could find a take-down rifle in .22mag/20ga., that would be useful.

How compact is the Papoose, when taken down?

Any other ideas for a take-down rifle or shotgun, that could be kept under a car seat?

Thanks,
Steve
 
Here is my slightly modified Papoose
pap.jpg

pap2.jpg
 
I have an M6 in 22 Hornet/410. The 410 is pretty handy with bird shot and five 00 buck pellets carry some pretty good oomph. Patterns well and hits to POA with the few different loads I've tried. I haven't shot slugs out of it, but a friend has out of his: he compares power to a 357. He also states that accuracy past 50 is poor.

I went with the 22 Hornet because of the extra firepower; in a pinch, it will take a deer or other larger game, 22LR is redundant with the 410 (small game foraging). Only advantage of the 22LR cartridge would be the ability to buy ammo just about anywhere, but the way I see it is if I'm where I can buy ammo, I could probably buy a Big Mac and fries as well. Accuracy with 22 H and factory sights is very good past 100 yards.

Mine was filthy when I got it new: Springfield doesn't clean the sand used to sandblast the stainless very well.

Trigger is different, but easy to use once you shoot a bit. I prefer to shoot it crossbow style using my middle finger instead of trigger finger.

Some helpful links:
http://www.thesupplybunker.net/Morrow/m6_scout.doc
http://free.hostdepartment.com/c/cas45reamer/M6.html
http://www.oldjimbo.com/survival/v-shrake/m6.html
http://www.milesfortis.com/dunn/m6.htm

Picture shows gun on the case I keep it; case is 21" X 12" and intended to hold an Encore pistol (buy from Midway). Not shown, and stored inside this case with the gun is the sling with the buck/bird shot loops, ammo wallets, 50 assorted rounds of 410, 100 rounds of 22 Hornet, and a good sharp hunting knife. Gun fit in case before I took the lawyer-mandated trigger guard off, but now there's more room for ammo. Also, guard looked like it would easily bend and interfere with trigger, and it was difficult to shoot gun wearing gloves when guard was in place.

m6-folded.jpg
 
I have: 1)a stainless springfield M-6 .22/.410 made by CZ
2) an Armalite AR-7 circ.1970
3) a Charter Arms AR-7 Circ. 1980
4)and a Survival Arms AR-7 Circ. 1995


The Armalite is by far the best made of the three AR-7's, The bolt is crome plated and bead blasted, and the barrel is also crome lined. It is also quite accurate. I have the sights regulated for 50yrds and using CCI mini mag's shoot consistant 1" groups.Second Best would be the charter, lesser quality, Slightly more accurate for some reason, and it works flawlessly using CCI mini-mag's. I bought it at a gun show for $25.00, beleive it or not!!!! Third comes the Survival Arms; this one didnt work out of the box. After years of fiddleing it now works, and has a neeto 4X detachable scope in the case with it. They are all sensitive to cheap ammo problems. Load them with good CCI stuff and they work quite well.

The M-6 is interesting. First of all I removed the crappy trigger-guard (dont do this at home Kid's) so I could fold the durn thing like it was desighned to. Second the pin that holds it together likes to walk out, and could be easily lost. So it milled a groove in the exterior side and used a snap on retainer to keep it in place. A while back I decided to see what I could do with a pile of Rem. .410 slugs in it. Accuracy was abysmal at 50yrds. The point of impact was about 24" left and about 12" low. The rear sight is an L type apperature with a peep for the .22 and a V for the .410. You cannot change the windage on one without changing the other. So I milled off the top of the .410 sight and carefully moved the V to where it needed to be. Now it looks like this
-v----. The .22 barrel is extreamly accurate, once you get used to the trigger, which is very aquard. The leangth of pull also is a great hinderance. It is VERY short. I added a sling from an M-1 Carbine to my M-6, it works out great but you must add a front swivel. The shotgun barrel shooting shot still is dead on after my fiddling out to 30yrds.

Given the choice, I'd go with the AR-7. The utility of the .410 is kinda marginal when you add the weight of the rifle, ammo, case ect. Finding a good AR-7 is hard, but they are out there. I'd imagine the Henrey is a decent one. They seem to build decent stuff. I have never handled one though.
:D
 
Great info, guys - thanks.

Jiles, did you make the fore-end for your rifle? Looks good. How did you attach it? (I suppose Marlin used to make these rifles with wood stocks?)

Now I'm thinking about the .22 hornet/.410 thing. Being a centerfire cartridge, it would be more reliable after long-term storage than .22 rimfire. Also has more power.

How much does the M6 in .22 Hornet/.410 usually sell for in stainless?

Still thinking, though...

Steve
 
Jiles, did you make the fore-end for your rifle? Looks good. How did you attach it? (I suppose Marlin used to make these rifles with wood stocks?)
Click to expand...

No I did not make it. It was purchased like that already modded. Marlin never made the front stock for the 70P. I guess the gun store put it in there. It is epoxied in there real good. Nice to have after 20 rounds and you can still hold the hot barrel. =)

Yes they made the 70P in both Blued steel with wood stock, and the stainless with synthetic stock. (But the blued/wood was several years ago)
 
I have the new Ar-7 "Target" model with the bull barrel. DO NOT buy an AR-7 unless you like to tinker with them. I had massive feed problems with mine at first. After I polished a semi ramp into the lower barrel face and also smoothed out the mag lips it now feeds very reliably and looks very assault weaponish with the metal tube type stock that comes with it. It does not float however.

The AR-7 board is flooded with reports of feed problems with this rifle. --Oneshot
 
Several friends and I purchased Henry AR-7s (which they call their "U.S. Survival Rifle") a year or so ago. I'm pretty sure these are still in production. Even though we all got the same model, they didn't all work the same. Mine works pretty well with cheap Remington ammo. It didn't like some other brands. It does experience a jam about every few magazines. I haven't done anything to it except to lubricate it a bit. Another friend's works about the same. Another has had more problems - typically one or two jams per magazine. I don't think he's experimented much with ammo or done anything to try to remedy this.

I think these are decent and interesting rifles. I beleive that by using the right ammo, keeping the sideplate tight, keeping them clean, and using good magazines, they can be made acceptably reliable (but I can't say for sure). The Henry version holds two magazines in the stock and has a scope mounting rail on the receiver. None of the other versions have these features. These are quite compact and weigh about the same as an average pistol. I think the Marlin Papoos would probably be more reliable and accurate, but also probably heavier, and certainly not as interesting a design.

Doug
 
How compact is the Papoose, when taken down?

Any other ideas for a take-down rifle or shotgun, that could be kept under a car seat?
Click to expand...
The barrel, at 16" , is the longest part. However, the storage case itself is about 20"-2"" long. Without the case, I can get the rifle(broken-down) inside a large athletic tennis-bag style of carry-all.

I saw a pretty interesting 12ga. at the last show. A 'Khan', made in Turkey, that folds up just like that M6 rifle. So, the receiver doesn't readily detach from the barrel. Don't know anything about them, but it may be something you wish to check into.
 
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