Question about "black rifle's"

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newbuckeye

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I have recently gotten the itch for a "black rifle" and not having handled one since my discharge in 1998, I figured I would ask some questions of the experts......

Are there any advantages to buying a fully assembled gun or purchase the lower and uppers separate? I would like to have more than one upper (like 5.56 and 22lr).

I see there are a BUNCH of brands, are they all compatible and interchangeable?

Any brands I should avoid?
 
Mostly they are interchangeable and there isn't really a benefit to buying a complete rifle other then bonus you buy once and your done with it imo.

I got my upper and lower separate so that I could get it just like I wanted it. What is your intended purpose for the rifle?

As far as brands you should avoid there are several brands that cut corners to get the cost down like Oly and bushmaster just to name a couple but there are more.

Your budget would also be good to know. You can get a lot of gun for around 800$ if you shop around.
 
I may be old fashioned but the ABCs of ARs still apply in my book - that is Armalite, Bushmaster, and Colt are reliable tried and true. Rock River, Smith and Wesson are also good sources. I like bushmaster uppers atop any lower mentioned above.
 
Mostly target, ground hogs, regular hogs would be the primary purpose.

What about DPMS? I see a lot of those in online auctions.
 
If hogs are your target, I'd recommend a 20' barrel. I had a 20' fluted bushmaster, now it's called the predator, mine was just an A2 with flat top and the 20' fluted barrel, slightly used but not abused I paid $650. the 1 in 8 twist barrel ratio did a lot of work on targets from 50 yards out to 250 yards. I loved it, wished i never sold it. The upper alone brought me $450 at auction. Never owned a DPMS but I know they have been around long enough.
 
You actually don't need two different uppers. You can just get a CMMG conversion kit that is really nice. Then all you have to do is swap out the BCG and it's a .22! But if you definitely want another upper, then that's cool. Just offering a cheaper alternative. :)
 
I own a bushmaster, and I'm pleased with it. I went the CMMG .22lr conversion kit, and I'm also quite pleased with it. I'm burning up my VERY old .22lr stash first, and the conversion kits can be finicky about what they like to eat, but if you decide to go that route, you'll learn what brand your particular combination likes to eat, and what it doesn't.

.... and, actually for the times when it doesn't feed properly, its excellent practice to clear a jamb safely (in case you're teaching a new shooter)


PE
 
Don't take the internet commandos brand pimping to seriously. There are really only a few brands to watch out for. Blackthorne, vulcan, hesse. Any of the major brands and even smaller brands are fine. Even the olympic arms stuff that is now made is ok. The only thing you need to watch for is make sure the gas key is staked. If it isn't you can do it yourself in about 10 seconds.
 
mr.scott said:
Don't take the internet commandos brand pimping to seriously. There are really only a few brands to watch out for. Blackthorne, vulcan, hesse. Any of the major brands and even smaller brands are fine. Even the olympic arms stuff that is now made is ok. The only thing you need to watch for is make sure the gas key is staked. If it isn't you can do it yourself in about 10 seconds.
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This...
 
mr.scott said:
Don't take the internet commandos brand pimping to seriously. There are really only a few brands to watch out for. Blackthorne, vulcan, hesse. Any of the major brands and even smaller brands are fine. Even the olympic arms stuff that is now made is ok. The only thing you need to watch for is make sure the gas key is staked. If it isn't you can do it yourself in about 10 seconds.
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Roggio's reputation should put them on the list as well.
 
I've seen the CNMG Conversion Kits malfunction before but I've had a lot of luck with mine and it works in all 3 of my AR's. I planned on possibly having to send it back but figured I'd take a shot at it. Mine works well (stainless version) and I'd recomend it.
I will however say that the accuracy is not as good as it is with my .22lr rifles such as my 10/22's. The rifling is different in my AR's and while the CNMG Conversion Kit is fun to play with I know that I'm not going to shoot as well as I would using a real .22 rifle.
It does however make for good training and cheap practice.
I have seen a pic on the internet of a severly fouled gas tube of a AR that was using a Conversion Kit. This was considered an unusual occurance but most seemed to recommend shooting copper jacketed bullets and finishing up the range day with some .223/5.56mm to clean out the gas tube. I try to do this but I honestly don't know if it really matters. It can't hurt.
 
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There are a lot of people who think that a brand doesn't matter or that good enough is just fine. I don't prescribe to this with guns any more than I do with cars or anything else.

Buy quality. BCM, DD, Colt, Noveske, Etc. You minimize your chances for problems and save yourself a lot of money in the long run.
 
Buy quality. BCM, Colt, Noveske, Ranier, Larue.

Check out BCM's website. They have an example of nearly any type of AR you could possibly want. From basic, to up to date 14.5" middy carbines, to longer range SPR's. Can't make specific recommendations without knowing exactly your intended use.

Nothing wrong with piecing together an AR. But buy the upper prebuilt. That's the only hard part. BCM sells complete uppers, slide in a standard BCM bolt carrier group.

Then snap on the lower assembly of your choice. You can order a complete lower from LMT, Rainier, or Noveske, or you can build your own.
 
dpms is just fine.. there aren't many junk ARs being made now.. if your just getting into ARs, do some research, you'll find a lot of companies are getting parts from the same place. some companies claim higher inspection tolerance such as particle testing and what not, but they are in many cases testing the same parts sold to the "lesser quality" brands.. people are going to come along and talk about "proper staking" and "QC" standards, do your self a favor and do a google search for any of the major brands such as colt, armalite, bushy,dpms... your going to find a lot of stories of things that made it through QC even the sacred colt:rolleyes: has had some pretty serious horror stories of guns that got through without staking and all sorts of issues... I've owned all sprectrums of ARs and have had no problems taht couldn't be dealt with in a few minutes.. don't listen to the brand zombies...
 
The only real advantage I can think of for purchasing a full gun is for warranty issues. If you have a mix master of parts, you will probably have trouble if you need to cover something. Since you are a noob to AR's that might be something for you to consider.
 
Hogs aren't dogs. Different game, tougher close in shots, and much more tactical. Since that's the higher power requirement, it might be better to move to a larger alternate caliber. And some would say it's arguable, shot placement would be more important.

In 5.56, a 20" with rifle gas would be preferred, to reach out and get the dogs. A 2 x 5 power variable would cover both. Fixed stock, a simple free float, and shop for an inexpensive trigger upgrade. Nothing lower than 4 pound pull.

Hogs are closer, dogs out past 350m, the two combined will force compromises that impact the other application. A 20" 5.56 for dogs, and a 16" midlength 6.8SPC for hogs/deer would be preferred.

No prairie dogs around here, I built a 6.8. Set one thing for the gun to do, and then choose the best caliber, barrel length, upper, optic, furniture, and trigger in that order. Once you start that process, each step cuts the Brand Name game down to who actually makes something you can use - like, Colt not offering any 6.8 at all, an A1 upper not being optics friendly, Aimpoint not making an affordable powered optic, etc.

Brands are about the last thing left to choose with that system, you get the gun tailored to what you need for the job. Brands tailor the gun to fit the marketing scheme and egos of others. Don't be that guy.
 
mr.scott said:
Don't take the internet commandos brand pimping to seriously. There are really only a few brands to watch out for. Blackthorne, vulcan, hesse. Any of the major brands and even smaller brands are fine. Even the olympic arms stuff that is now made is ok. The only thing you need to watch for is make sure the gas key is staked. If it isn't you can do it yourself in about 10 seconds.
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A voice of sanity in the black rifle forest.

Buying a completed rifle well normally have a warranty and better resale. Buying separate well normally give you more options on configuration.
 
Excellent info here from all. I am pretty research orientated before I make a major purchase and you all have given me lots of resources. Thanks!
 
I'm really surprised that no one mentioned Spike's Tactical. They have a very good product and are still in the growth stage where they aren't swamped by overhead; so their prices are still pretty good.
 
I'm also of the "buy quality" persuasion. BCM, Colt, Daniel Defense to start the alphabet. If you're going to use it why not get something a cut above. And it will be a little better years from now when you've long forgotten the price. But if it's to be a safe queen, then maybe it doesn't really matter.
 
One thing that I would beware of is buying a used AR. You might be buying something that someone just doesn't have any use for or buy from someone that has fallen on hard times and is selling his collection.
Then again you could be buying some Frankengun that some guy built (badly) and is unreliable. I know a guy that built one of these guns and while he worked on it until he got it right I could easily see others passing the misery on. Do a bit of research in what to look for when buying an AR/M4.
Google "Rob" and "The Chart" and "M4" and you'll find a list of what to look for when buying AR15's. You may not need everything listed but it is nice to know what makes one Black Rifle different than a more or less expensive brand. Both www.ar15.com and www.m4carbine.net have a beginners section explaining what to look for as well.
I'm at the range at least once per month and usually it's more like twice per month. I usually see AR's there and all brands are represented. I haven't seen an unreliable AR at the range in years other than my friends screwed up build. I will however say that this is mostly bench rest shooting and the guns aren't used very hard.
 
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